Guns in high demand as holiday gifts

Where are you CrazyPaul?
 

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Reba said:
If the order is counter to the provisions of the US Constitution or the UCMJ, then they are obligated to not obey.

No, it isn't the job of the military to protect the government.

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the [Army] of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

(Note that above officers' oath does not include obeying the President or other officers.)

Officers of the National Guard of the various States take an additional oath:

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___, that I make this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of [grade] in the Army/Air National Guard of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___ upon which I am about to enter, so help me God.

All officers are restricted to lawful orders as per the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).
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(Note that above officers' oath does not include obeying the President or other officers.)
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Yes, it does as long as the President is not a dictator (an enemy) such as Hitler, Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad.

Will it ever happen? Never.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Yes, it does as long as the President is not a dictator (an enemy) such as Hitler, Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad.

Will it ever happen? Never.
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but... there are similarities in all of these leaders including our President -

1. pulling wool over your eyes
2. banning guns (not yet but sooner or later!)
3. authorizing secret illegal missions
4. engaging in wars
5. engaging in suppressions and censorships
6. worst of all - garnering supports for his "campaign" and that would be you as sheep who would be one of the most dangerous people... an enabler.

it's a slippery slippery slippery slope. you know what's the Constitution for? it's a warning sign for citizens. we can either chose to disregard the warning sign or not. you chose to ignore the warning.

slippery-slope.png


haven't you learned anything about our own government from Bradley Manning and Eric Snowden? aren't you aware of our government's lies and cover-ups?
 
CrazyPaul said:
Yes, it does as long as the President is not a dictator (an enemy) such as Hitler, Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad.

Will it ever happen? Never.
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He doesn't have to be a dictator in the historical sense. If his orders to the military aren't constitutional they don't have to obey them. The military is bound by the Constitution and UCMJ.

Tell me what would prevent a US President from becoming a dictator?
 
Reba said:
He doesn't have to be a dictator in the historical sense. If his orders to the military aren't constitutional they don't have to obey them. The military is bound by the Constitution and UCMJ.

Tell me what would prevent a US President from becoming a dictator?
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Remember about Nixon?

On President Andrew Jackson and other presidents, they can become the dictators, too. But every one, both government and the people (citizens), looked the other way when they tried to eliminated or killed us just to get what they wanted to take the lands away from us. They (Natives) were forced to moved out west or going to the new reservations which they don't want to move. They were hurt by the government and the military even coming into the 21st Century. :(

If the President and the government have compassion for all walks of life no matter who we are. Remember the Japanese who were put in camps just because they were born in USA and not from Japan. We are not the enemies. Geeze. :(
 
Jiro said:
but... there are similarities in all of these leaders including our President -

1. pulling wool over your eyes
2. banning guns (not yet but sooner or later!)
3. authorizing secret illegal missions
4. engaging in wars
5. engaging in suppressions and censorships
6. worst of all - garnering supports for his "campaign" and that would be you as sheep who would be one of the most dangerous people... an enabler.

it's a slippery slippery slippery slope. you know what's the Constitution for? it's a warning sign for citizens. we can either chose to disregard the warning sign or not. you chose to ignore the warning.

slippery-slope.png


haven't you learned anything about our own government from Bradley Manning and Eric Snowden? aren't you aware of our government's lies and cover-ups?
Click to expand...
So you are prepared to fight against the government. Millions of citizens including me and my family don't need to because we know that the government will never destroy our democracy. 100 years from now, maybe.
 
CrazyPaul said:
So you are prepared to fight against the government. Millions of citizens including me and my family don't need to because we know that the government will never destroy our democracy. 100 years from now, maybe.
Click to expand...

Democracy is not free anymore. We have to fight governments for our rights just like in Canada when Prime Minister don't care about our rights. He is very much against anyone who are different than you. You might be Redneck and White, but still feel like discriminating any people who are different from you. We have to use our voice, whether we use ASL with ASL interpreter or speak out. What about CEO of Oil and Gas companies who are destroying our environment and the democracy, eh?

EDIT: I agree with Jiro. :thumb:
 
Bebonang said:
Democracy is not free anymore. We have to fight governments for our rights just like in Canada when Prime Minister don't care about our rights. He is very much against anyone who are different than you. You might be Redneck and White, but still feel like discriminating any people who are different from you. We have to use our voice, whether we use ASL with ASL interpreter or speak out. What about CEO of Oil and Gas companies who are destroying our environment and the democracy, eh?

EDIT: I agree with Jiro. :thumb:
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I'm southerner, so I can tell you that CrazyPaul is too FAR from redneck - he's more like city guy from west coast or northern state (he's originally from NJ).
 
CrazyPaul said:
So you are prepared to fight against the government. Millions of citizens including me and my family don't need to because we know that the government will never destroy our democracy. 100 years from now, maybe.
Click to expand...

prepared to fight against the government? you're mistaken....

we're willing to defend our country and Constitution against any enemies
 
Bebonang said:
Democracy is not free anymore. We have to fight governments for our rights just like in Canada when Prime Minister don't care about our rights. He is very much against anyone who are different than you. You might be Redneck and White, but still feel like discriminating any people who are different from you. We have to use our voice, whether we use ASL with ASL interpreter or speak out. What about CEO of Oil and Gas companies who are destroying our environment and the democracy, eh?

EDIT: I agree with Jiro. :thumb:
Click to expand...
Of course, we fight for our rights by proposing a new bill, protesting or suing the government for a violation. Please remember that this thread is about GUNS. Some people here, gun nuts think one of the reasons why guns are necessary is to defend themselves from the government. I mean WTF? They are very paranoid evidently. Did you see MLK carrying a gun to fight against the government?

I guess they want to be fools like David Koresh who is DEAD.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Of course, we fight for our rights by proposing a new bill, protesting or suing the government for a violation. Please remember that this thread is about GUNS. Some people here, gun nuts think one of the reasons why guns are necessary is to defend themselves from the government. I mean WTF? They are very paranoid evidently. Did you see MLK carrying a gun to fight against the government?

I guess they want to be fools like David Koresh who is DEAD.
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but... people like you do not fight for your rights..... you gladly accepted it.

you gladly accepted and condoned the fact the NSA is doing warrantless and illegal wiretapping.
 
Bebonang said:
Remember about Nixon?
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Watergate? Yes.

On President Andrew Jackson and other presidents, they can become the dictators, too.
Click to expand...
There can be different kinds of dictators, yes.

But every one, both government and the people (citizens), looked the other way when they tried to eliminated or killed us just to get what they wanted to take the lands away from us. They (Natives) were forced to moved out west or going to the new reservations which they don't want to move. They were hurt by the government and the military even coming into the 21st Century. :(
Click to expand...
Government and military leaders don't always make the right choices, that's true.

If the President and the government have compassion for all walks of life no matter who we are. Remember the Japanese who were put in camps just because they were born in USA and not from Japan. We are not the enemies. Geeze. :(
Click to expand...
Yes, I remember the internment of Japanese during World War II. It's an example of letting fear lead to irrational actions, especially when it has a racial component.
 
Jiro said:
but... people like you do not fight for your rights..... you gladly accepted it.

you gladly accepted and condoned the fact the NSA is doing warrantless and illegal wiretapping.
Click to expand...
I suggest that you start a petition right now. I will sign up. Happy?
 
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