Gun laws in britain don't make it safer.

[dead money]

The intruder done went pass the excessive force when they broke into your home.

And how can a person retreat with their children? In separate rooms.
I rather to live with knowing I shot someone, possibly killing them than knowing they harmed my children.

you and me both. I refuse to roll the dice and hope i get lucky that they may well be a major threat. Better to be safe than sorry. I'll take my 9mm and put fate in my hands rather than theirs.

 

[Babyblue]

you and me both. I refuse to roll the dice and hope i get lucky that they may well be major threat. Better to be safe than sorry. I'll take my 9mm and put fate in my hands rather than theirs.

Exactly!!

 

[Reba]

Even in states that haven't abolished the "duty to retreat", that requirement does not cover intrusions of one's home. Self defense doesn't have to be proven or even claimed in cases where someone is shot while committing a crime inside another person's home.

 

[Reba]

"I'd rather be judged by twelve, than carried by six"

Exactly.

 

[Reba]

That's the law. Don't like it....work to change it. Good luck getting a law instituted that says you are allowed to shoot people at whim.

"Shoot people at a whim?" Who said they wanted to do that?

 

[Reba]

And if they are not armed, you do not. Belief that they ay be armed is not enough. But that is exactly what you are proposing. That just because you think someone might be armed, you have the right to shoot them.

Self defense in one's home doesn't require an equal match of weaponry. An 85-year-old, 90-lb. woman who can't leave her wheelchair is no physical match for a 6'-2", 280-lb., 23-year-old attacker. The "unarmed" thug threatens to snap her neck like a chicken in one minute, and police are three minutes away. Should she just sit and wait? Should she try to slug it out with him? Or should she pull her pistol out from under her lap robe and tell the guy to leave?

Police around here won't even charge the woman with that shooting, much less go to trial.

 

[Reba]

And that contributes to the problem. If you put as much effort into effective solutions as you do into the solutions that have been shown to contribute to the problem we could actually reduce crime in this country.

Long-term solutions are all well and good, and we should pursue them.

In the meantime, when the bad guy breaks in, we have to protect ourselves and loved ones with whatever means is necessary.

 

[Reba]

You end up in jail here too. You have to prove you had good cause and feared for your life.

Depends on the state.

 

[Reba]

Exactly. And proving that the intruder was there as a direct threat to your life as their intent is more difficult than you might think. Especially if said intruder was unarmed. That's why they make emergency service lines available. Call 911.

Uh, huh. That's why there are so many 9-1-1 tapes played on TV where we can hear the victims' last screams, or last breaths, as they die before the police arrive. Terrific. :roll:

You would also have to show that you had no exit available from the situation, so don't plan on living in a house that has both a front door and a back door available to you.

Just having a front door and back door aren't enough to prove that escape was possible. I have three doors downstairs for exits but all our bedrooms are upstairs. If some bad guy is standing in the stairway there is no way to escape.

Thankfully, I live in a state that doesn't make such unreasonable demands on its residents.

 

[Reba]

Not to me. You have to prove it in your community to a jury of your peers, with all your closet skeletons aired.

Depends on the state. In our state, the police don't even charge people who shoot intruders, so they never go to trial.

 

[Reba]

And Duty to retreat supercedes the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground Doctrine. Obviously, I am not the one that needs to educate themselves.

Reference please. Which states?


"Duty to retreat" is a restrictive provision to the right of self defense, "the castle doctrine", and "stand your ground."

In many places, it's the responsibility of the police to make a case that a shooting was not self defense or a stand-your-ground situation. The assumption is that the resident was acting in self defense unless evidence indicates otherwise. Most times after investigating the shooting, the resident shooter is never even arrested or charged by police.

 

[Reba]

Duty to Retreat does not have to be written into the books for the concept to apply.

It has to be written down to be a law. People can't be arrested for "concepts"; they can be arrested and tried for breaking laws.

When the court reporter reads the charges at a trial, he doesn't say, "You have been charged with breaking the concept of..." He says, "You have been charged with breaking statute/penal code number of the State of ..."

There was a case in the town in which I live just recently. The man doing the shooting has been convicted of manslaughter. It was found that firing a gun at someone stealing property and killing them was excessive force.

What were the details of the case?

 

[Foxrac]

Dreama, good point to bring up and I know that gun restriction in UK won't work so perfect.

Thanks for link.

 

[Foxrac]

Uh, huh. That's why there are so many 9-1-1 tapes played on TV where we can hear the victims' last screams, or last breaths, as they die before the police arrive. Terrific. :roll:



Just having a front door and back door aren't enough to prove that escape was possible. I have three doors downstairs for exits but all our bedrooms are upstairs. If some bad guy is standing in the stairway there is no way to escape.

Thankfully, I live in a state that doesn't make such unreasonable demands on its residents.

Yup, true, call directly to 911 took alot of time and offender can knock victim out in last minute or second.

 

[Jiro]

Armed Citizen

After hearing several bumps in the night, Claire Storms woke her husband, NRA Life member Dave Storms. He armed himself with a handgun and approached the noise. A 16-year-old wearing a bandana over his face was in the bathroom. Police said the teen had forcefully entered a window and was stealing money from Dave’s wallet. “Just his eyes were showing,” Storms recalled. “I put the gun on him real quick and I said, ‘Back up and sit down on the pot’.” The teen sat down and waited for police to arrive, all the while asking to leave and begging not to be shot. Storms said some in the community feared he’d be charged with a crime for defending himself, but he knew he was within his rights. “If it was Washington, D.C., I would be in trouble,” Storms said, adding that his fellow citizens “better vote for people who believe in the Second Amendment and our right to bear arms.” (Presque Isle County Advance, Rogers City, MI, 08/28/08)

His barking dog awakened a Baptist minister early one morning. Deciding to investigate, he grabbed his .454 Casull revolver and slid open the front door. What he found was quite alarming—a man high on narcotics was holding a brick in the air, pounding on the side of the house and shouting. The minister retreated inside, but the crazed man forced his way through the door. Fearing for his safety, the minister pointed his big-bore revolver at the suspect, ordered him to the floor and held him for police. A responding deputy had to use a Taser on the suspect before taking him into custody. (Troup County News, LaGrange, GA, 08/15/08)

NRA member David Johnson was returning home from work when he saw something suspicious—the door to his neighbor’s recently vacated home was propped open. He found that his front door, too, was ajar, with a bicycle in the driveway and his dog running loose. Fearing a prowler was in the area, Johnson ran upstairs to get his shotgun. According to police, Johnson found a man ransacking his bedroom. He quickly pointed his shotgun at the intruder and ordered him to the floor. Responding officers arrested the intruder, who was carrying a stolen gun and has a lengthy criminal record. “[The intruder is a] poster boy for Project Exile!” Johnson wrote in a letter to the NRA. (Tidewater News, Franklin, VA, 08/13/08)

"It’s kind of a blur, ” recalls Robert Smotherman of his life’s most terrifying moment. As he pulled into his driveway, two men wearing ski masks and carrying rifles ran around the corner and demanded his valuables. “I had a gun on me,” recalls Smotherman, a concealed-carry permit holder. “[They] hesitated, and I took the opportunity.” Police said Smotherman fired eight shots from his .45-caliber pistol, striking at least one of the suspects several times and causing both to flee. “I just took my gut reaction and went with my first instinct,” he explained. The wounded suspect was apprehended; his accomplice is being sought. (Bradenton Herald, Bradenton, FL, 09/14/08)

I have dozens more cases like this... need to hear more?

 

[DURAY]

Deaf people can do anything including own a gun, kill someone, defend oneself, except hear. Wasn't it that AG Janet Reno's top gun expert never fired a gun in her life? To talk about gun law is to fire a gun and experience it, whether or not you like it. Don't go Brady on us otherwise.

 

[Steel X]

I'm sorry, but if someone breaks into my home. I will shoot the intruder and ask questions later. After I call law enforcement of course.

If a complete stranger breaks into my house, I will have to kill him.

Because of alot of reasons, he may be armed and dangerous. maybe coming into my house to steal things, stuff a bomb, try to kill me, etc...you name it. The stranger should know better than trepassing into someone's property like mine, especially when uninvited.

 

[dreama]

Dreama, good point to bring up and I know that gun restriction in UK won't work so perfect.

Thanks for link.

I'm glad you found it interesting.

 

[Jiro]

If a complete stranger breaks into my house, I will have to kill him.

Because of alot of reasons, he may be armed and dangerous. maybe coming into my house to steal things, stuff a bomb, try to kill me, etc...you name it. The stranger should know better than trepassing into someone's property like mine, especially when uninvited.

exactly my point. The intruder automatically accepts the risk of harmed as the result of self-defense. It's no different from ignoring a sign saying "DANGER! BEWARE OF DOGS!"

 

[Dixie]

I think what Jiro is saying that if the intruder walked into your home, shot the first shot and you defended yourself with a shot to his upper body that resulted in death for the intruder, you would likely NOT be charged criminally.

In the case that a robber entered your home to steal your wife's jewelry and leave without causing harm, and you shot him would be considered excessive force.

It depends on the situation and the laws that govern your area. Because each state varies on its self-defense laws - I would highly recommend that you consult with the authorities in your area about how to properly arm yourself against potential intruders and what you should do if you find yourself in immediate danger of losing your life, and what constitutes as 'excessive force'.