Georgia OKs Bible Classes, Commandments

[Teresh]

No, you are not sure if I'm in israel or iran or whatever, I ll be out of place.

I don't know a lot about Iran, but in Israel I'm told that for a very long time it was hard or impossible (possibly illegal) to operate a business from Friday night to Saturday night because of Shabbat. The sirens going off announcing the beginning of Shabbat, the people walking in the streets and the lack of really anything going on would make most Christians feel out of place.

You don't think about these things because you live in a society where there is no institutionalised religion. Granted, Israel has freedom of religion and law enforcement and the judicial system work very hard to ensure that religions other than Judaism are protected fairly, the fact is nonetheless that it is a Jewish state, and therefore that does have an effect on the laws that get passed and the things that occur within its borders.

Now, if you were to go to Israel as a Christian man, you might end up feeling subjugated by the establishment because while you have your civil rights, there are so few Christians in the country compared with the massive number of Jews. You may respect their beliefs and their religion, but you will feel out of place being the only Christian of any of the people you meet there.

The issue in the United States is that the US was not established to be a religious nation and various elements, particularly Christians, have tried throughout its history to legislate religion into the government, with varying degrees of success. If you state that there is freedom of religion, and that the nation does not have any reason to favor one religion over another, then the state is required by simple logic to be secular in nature.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Oh I know how they do in Israel, there are lot of christians there too and not only that, there are christian missionaries there. They don't feel out of place. See the only different Jews and Christians is Messiah, all ofther religion isn't. Like christians sees different of the views as much jews has. Tragically, here in the USA some christians hated the jews bec what they did to Jesus. What they overlook is that it is God's plan for salvation for all mankind. If Jesus weren't killed, then Gospel will be useless, and also, even how people using their religion will be wasted. People try to perform God's approval, its not what we did, there is a barrier between us and God, and that is sin. Tho jews still waiting for the Messiah, and thru the years, little by little Jews begin to acknowledge who Jesus really is and the point of it. What Nazis did to the jews is very evil things to do, did you not know as Jesus said in the last day will have war in Israel? That golden dome were war between jews and islam. But Jews and Christian are knitted because both Look forward Messiah as tho christians knew He's been here but for the reign of Christ, not as for eternal rule on this planet. But islam claim mohammed will be. Now, there are possibility its true as he may be the one of the anti christ. We don't know for sure who will be. Some believe Nero will be anti christ. There is no way telling. I wouldn't be concern who will be. There so much opnion who will be. Even tho they said it isn't the factthe view. But time will comes. Bec what has happen to jews comingto israel and also turmoil of all kinds is already written. But anyway, I know what Israel are like.

 

[MorriganTait]

You don't think about these things because you live in a society where there is no institutionalised religion. Granted, Israel has freedom of religion and law enforcement and the judicial system work very hard to ensure that religions other than Judaism are protected fairly

Unless you're Palestinian of course, then you might have trouble even getting from point A to point B with all the checkpoints and other opressive tactics...

It only serves to illustrate - when the state gets into the religion business, someone always loses. It's just a matter of how big they lose.

 

[Teresh]

Oh I know how they do in Israel, there are lot of christians there too and not only that, there are christian missionaries there.

Only 2.1% of Israelis are Christian. "A lot" needs to be put in context. You might be interested to know that there are eight times as many Muslims in Israel as there are Christians (16.1% of all Israelia).

See the only different Jews and Christians is Messiah, all ofther religion isn't.

Christians at large have little or no respect for Hebrew history, the Hebrew language, Jewish holidays or anything else with the words "Jew" or "Hebrew" in it, really. The belief of whether or not Yeshua was the Messiah is only one difference between the two.

Tho jews still waiting for the Messiah, and thru the years, little by little Jews begin to acknowledge who Jesus really is and the point of it.

Um... what? My observation is it's more often the other way around--Christians becoming Jews rather than Jews becoming Christians. It may just be my area, though (NY and NJ). Additionally, not all Jews are "still waiting"--Reform Judaism, the largest branch in the US, teaches that there wasn't and will never be a corporeal Messiah (other branches differ on this) at all, rather, a stream of events that will lead to world peace.

Unless you're Palestinian of course, then you might have trouble even getting from point A to point B with all the checkpoints and other opressive tactics...

Honestly, the Palestinians haven't done a whole lot to learn Israel's respect... The recent bombing in Tel Aviv kind of says something. It's one thing in the US where terrorists fly a plane into a building and it's just the work of a tiny terrorist group. In the Israel/Palestine conflict, with Hamas in power and supporting such attacks, it's a different story.

Anyway, the Israel/Palestine discussion is a subject for another topic. It's way OT in this thread.

 

[MorriganTait]

Honestly, the Palestinians haven't done a whole lot to learn Israel's respect...

I am not suggesting it's a one-sided issue, but the Palestinians are not the ones in power. When we see religious states come to power, we always see oppression of other religious groups. No matter what justifications the state of Israel might make, it is incredibly difficult to live and prosper as a muslim in Israel. There are many bureaucratic obstacles.

 

[Reba]

...Christians at large have little or no respect for Hebrew history, the Hebrew language, Jewish holidays or anything else with the words "Jew" or "Hebrew" in it, really. ...

I guess it depends on where you live and who you hang with. In the places that I have lived, I haven't noticed any widespread disrespect. There are always some jerks around but that's true in any community.

Um... what? My observation is it's more often the other way around--Christians becoming Jews rather than Jews becoming Christians.

I think you mean "Gentiles", not Christians. If someone is truly a born-again Christian, he/she can't become a Jew; that is, if someone has truly accepted Jesus as Savior, he/she can't "un-accept" the Savior. Salvation is permanent.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

... Additionally, not all Jews are "still waiting"--Reform Judaism, the largest branch in the US, teaches that there wasn't and will never be a corporeal Messiah (other branches differ on this) at all, rather, a stream of events that will lead to world peace.

Very true. I have heard that from several Jews.

Honestly, the Palestinians haven't done a whole lot to learn Israel's respect... The recent bombing in Tel Aviv kind of says something. It's one thing in the US where terrorists fly a plane into a building and it's just the work of a tiny terrorist group. In the Israel/Palestine conflict, with Hamas in power and supporting such attacks, it's a different story.

Yes, the newly elected Hamas government has shown its true colors. They did NOT condemn the attack; in fact, they supported it! Not a surprise to me but maybe a disappointment to those who fall for the Palestinian line of "we just want a homeland and peace." Ha!

Anyway, the Israel/Palestine discussion is a subject for another topic. It's way OT in this thread.

Sadly, yes. Never ending....

 

[hottiedeafboi]

well there are also christians changed to jewish, but not mean they aren't christians, see, being a christian does not mean u are no longer jewish. Now, u got that wrong idea, christians studied the language of hebrews, and if u think christians has no respect of the hebrew history and stuff, we wouldn't have old testament. Bec I have seen my own eyes what I learned and what I see. Its about right about the populations, but gonna have to understand, christians were in israel before muslim did, but many christians, jews and gentile christians alike were slaughtered by the jewish and lead many christians scattered abroad. If jewish becomes christians, is not mean there no longer jews. As theologians been study greek, hebrews, aramic andlatin all those years. Why? To know what english words meant.

 

[Reba]

I don't know a lot about Iran, but in Israel I'm told that for a very long time it was hard or impossible (possibly illegal) to operate a business from Friday night to Saturday night because of Shabbat. The sirens going off announcing the beginning of Shabbat, the people walking in the streets and the lack of really anything going on would make most Christians feel out of place.

Any person visiting, or moving to a new country feels "out of place" until they spend enough time there to become familiar with the customs and culture. You just adapt and have a learning experience, or you can resist (the Ugly American syndrome), and be miserable.

It's a trite saying but true: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I think a quiet Shabbat spent with family and friends would be a nice change from the daily hectic pace.

There are some retail stores in my area that are owned by Jews, and they are closed on Saturdays. Also, there is an area of the city where most of the Orthodox Jews live, all within walking distance of the synagogue, because they don't drive on Saturdays. There are still Jews who strictly observe Shabbat, even here in the Deep South.

 

[MorriganTait]

Any person visiting, or moving to a new country feels "out of place" until they spend enough time there to become familiar with the customs and culture.

You have got to be joking right? Are you really not getting Teresh's entire point? She's not talking about being the new kid at school. She's talking about the socioeconomic isolation, oppression and even persecution that can happen to people of a minority faith when the state engages in religiously based political partiality. She's trying to illustrate how this goes against the freedoms our country is founded on.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Morrigan, reba knows what she meant. She answer and that fit the questions.

 

[Reba]

You have got to be joking right? Are you really not getting Teresh's entire point? She's not talking about being the new kid at school. She's talking about the socioeconomic isolation, oppression and even persecution that can happen to people of a minority faith when the state engages in religiously based political partiality. She's trying to illustrate how this goes against the freedoms our country is founded on.

Teresh used Israel as an example. I don't think Christians in Israel feel "socioeconomic isolation, oppression and even persecution".

However, even other than Israel, I know many Christian individuals and families who live in non-Christian countries, and they bear up under the laws and customs of those countries. They know when they go to those countries that they can't expect the same religious and political rights that they enjoy in the USA.

Are you saying that America "engages in religiously based political partiality" and that "people of a minority faith" are oppressed here?

 

[Teresh]

I guess it depends on where you live and who you hang with. In the places that I have lived, I haven't noticed any widespread disrespect. There are always some jerks around but that's true in any community.

Disrespect, no. Overt disrespect is very rare up here. (Remember, NY and NJ have the highest per capita concentration of Jews in the US.) Nonetheless, I generally feel though that if Christianity is rooted in Judaism that most Christians would benefit from learning a bit about Judaism, more than the trite (and incorrect) "It's Christianity without Jesus" idea that many Christians seem to have. I'm not Christian, so that's my opinion as an observer. I just think it's silly that Christians claim to believe in God but often don't care to get acquainted with the source of their religion--Judaism and the Hebrew people.

I think you mean "Gentiles", not Christians. If someone is truly a born-again Christian, he/she can't become a Jew; that is, if someone has truly accepted Jesus as Savior, he/she can't "un-accept" the Savior. Salvation is permanent.

No, I mean Christians. Many in number are Christians who are not particularly religious. As far as people who are really into it, I don't think they would willingly become Jews. But for most people born and raised in Christianity... It's not hard to give up if you don't fully believe in it.

Yes, the newly elected Hamas government has shown its true colors. They did NOT condemn the attack; in fact, they supported it! Not a surprise to me but maybe a disappointment to those who fall for the Palestinian line of "we just want a homeland and peace." Ha!

I can't believe I agree with you on something, but I do. Hamas really scares me.

well there are also christians changed to jewish, but not mean they aren't christians, see, being a christian does not mean u are no longer jewish.

Actually, yes it does. There aren't any rabbis that would vouch for the Jewish status of a person who has converted out of Judaism to another religion. If you believe Yeshua was the Messiah, you can't be Jewish--By pretty much every ruler the two are mutually exclusive.

Now, u got that wrong idea, christians studied the language of hebrews,

Do you know Hebrew? Unless you can soundly answer yes, then your statement is useless.

and if u think christians has no respect of the hebrew history and stuff, we wouldn't have old testament.

Are you familiar with the Talmud? It's a fairly useful catalog of rabbinical discussions, even if some of the parts are kind of useless in this day and age.

Its about right about the populations, but gonna have to understand, christians were in israel before muslim did, but many christians, jews and gentile christians alike were slaughtered by the jewish and lead many christians scattered abroad.

Jews have never taken part in slaughtering Christians to my knowledge. If you can cite a source, that would be great. Christians have, however, throughout history, slaughtered Jews on numerous occasions. The most specific times were the Inquisition and the Holocaust, but even still, throughout most of European history after the Roman Empire collapsed it was either illegal to be a Jew or Jews were forced to attend Christian services, forced to be baptised and converting to Judaism was punishable by death. Ironically, the Jews still in the Middle East which had fallen under Muslim rule were better off than then the Jews in Christendom.

If jewish becomes christians, is not mean there no longer jews.

See above. "Messianic Jew" is an oxymoron.

I think a quiet Shabbat spent with family and friends would be a nice change from the daily hectic pace.

Agreed. I just don't think the government should make it compulsory.

 

[Reba]

...But for most people born and raised in Christianity... It's not hard to give up if you don't fully believe in it.

Our definitions of "Christian" differ. Unlike Jews who are by blood born "Jews", Christians are not born Christians. They can be born into Christian families and cultures but each person must choose for himself or herself whether or not to accept Christ as Savior. Until they make that decision, they are not Christians. However, in America especially, many people call themselves "Christians" by default. They figure, "well, I'm not Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist, so I guess I'm Christian."

I can't believe I agree with you on something, but I do.

Awww, it's not that painful, really....

 

[MorriganTait]

Are you saying that America "engages in religiously based political partiality" and that "people of a minority faith" are oppressed here?

Now I am utterly convinced you missed the point.

This is our Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is the freedom I was speaking of.

I believe it is important for us to protect this freedom.

I do not want our government to impose religious views on its citizens - in schools, in courts, etc. States begin with religious partiality in what seem like harmless ways, but as we watch our rights eroded, we have less and less power as citizens.

I spoke in deliberately broad terms so as to include ALL states that engage in religious bias.

When you refer to non-Christian countries, are you referring to those that simply do not have a majority of practicing Christians, or those states with an official policy of relgious exclusivism?

 

[deafdyke]

One was an actual Comparative Religions course that explained the tenets of the world's major religions, and another was an English course where a book of the Bible (Ecclesiastes) was analyzed as part of the course, as literature. It was handled very well, in a way that did not insult anyone--non-believers OR believers.

Yes, comparative religions and treating the Bible as literature or an important document that influenced our society IS the way to do it. I have no problems with Bible as literature or comp religion stuff.....i'm not "the Bible is EVIL!!!!!!

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, my knowledge of hebrew language is limited, but not mean I'm not interesting. Holy Bible is originally from the latin, greek, hebrew languages but different scholars have different views what it should be in the Bible or not. But interesting to know, all the message has one point is Jesus Christ. And yes, christians has been executed by the jews. I wouldn't be surprise if it isn't your knowledge. Even science saying have no knowledge about the day of crucifixions and resurrection where there were dark days and earthquakes. But some scientist did say there were earthquakes and darkenss where it written. What's interesting to me, many are trying to prevent people knowing what really happen. I thought of myself, that's exactly what the religious leaders are doing paying the soldiers to keep quiet about this. And there maybe others being paid by silence of relating incident about what has happen to Jesus. Now as paul who himself is a jewish , wrote, doesn't matter who you are, jews, gentiles, barbarians, scyillnian (couldn't remember the spellin), rich, poor, masters, slaves are in one Body of Christ, that is those who received Christ. Remember in the old testament God not always honors religious leaders, and Jesus gave a parable about the religious leader and prophets

 

[Reba]

Now I am utterly convinced you missed the point.

This is our Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is the freedom I was speaking of.

I believe it is important for us to protect this freedom.

Congress has not made, and is not making a law establishing a religion, etc. So what's the problem?

...as we watch our rights eroded, we have less and less power as citizens.

That's why Christians have to stay alert to what's happening.

When you refer to non-Christian countries, are you referring to those that simply do not have a majority of practicing Christians, or those states with an official policy of relgious exclusivism?

Both.

 

[MorriganTait]

Congress has not made, and is not making a law establishing a religion, etc. So what's the problem?

Yep - not getting the point. I give up.