Georgia OKs Bible Classes, Commandments

Status
Not open for further replies.
hottieboi, you are sooooo wrong!

Do you know who named this country, United States of America?

Answer: Thomas Paine, well known for his lengthy refutation on the Bible in Age of common sense. He hated the Bible.

Do you know who was the father of our U.S. Consitution?

Answer: James Madison and if he was alive today, he would be furious at faith-based programs being funded by the Bush Administration. Really! He has vetoed ALL proposals that require state to pay for religious activities. He wrote:

"Because the bill in reserving a certain parcel of land in the United States for the use of said Baptist Church comprises a principle and a precedent for the appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that "Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment."

He also opposed tax for religious charities:

"Because the bill vests in the said incorporated church an authority to provide for the support of the poor and the education of poor children of the same, an authority which, being altogether superfluous if the provision is to be the result of pious charity, would be a precedent for giving to religious societies as such a legal agency in carrying into effect a public and civil duty."

A few days after George Washington's death, Bishop White was hoping that George Washington was a Christian and Rev James Abercromble, a Christian pastor for George Washington replied:

"Sir, Washington was a Deist."

That pretty settles it considering that his writings rarely spoke of Jesus and his use of words to describe God wasn't conventional.

So, it is evident that the laws of USA America are formed thanks to Deists, not Christians or Jews or Muslims.

In fact, the Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister, preached in 1831 that "The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity.... Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."

And there was a movement to put "God" in our fine US Consitution!
 
hottiedeafboi, imagine if you woke up tomorrow and the government promoted Catholicism or Judisiam or Wicca or whatever. You wouldn't like it. You would feel left out. Not everyone in the US is a Christian....so as a result, we need to NOT favor people's religions!
 
Well, I cannot say I am pleased with what our Governor did...
 
I don't feel comfortable pasting the whole article, but I will do so.
Tenfold foolish


02/15/06
Email this story to a friend

THE EVIDENCE against the theory of intelligent design continues to mount in the Georgia General Assembly as witnessed by the fast-tracking of House Bill 941 that supports the posting of the Ten Commandments in the state’s courthouses. Given that federal courts have slapped down such displays time and time again, that’s just not very intelligent.

Up until now, this never-ending controversy has been largely an amusing/bewildering combat between the forces of Christian fundamentalism and civil-liberties organizations. Sometimes fun to watch, it has mostly been no skin off the taxpayer’s pocketbook. Those disinterested or ambivalent had no real stake, except philosophical, in the matter.

That’s changed because now the state proposes to pay to provide the displays and, even worse, defend this billboarding of a particular religious viewpoint with public money. The state attorney general is, in the measure, required to defend against any and all lawsuits resulting — and those are both certain and likely to be numerous.

If defending the General Assembly’s Voter ID Act is expected to cost taxpayers $2.5 million, one should fear this will be far more costly.

AND WHILE the earlier battles were funded by private sup-porters of one side or the other, in this instance those paying will include Christians who believe in the separation of church and state, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, all those holding to other beliefs or no belief at all. The General Assembly, in its lack of wisdom and desire to posture for certain constituen-cies in an election year, has actually created new grounds upon which to mount a challenge.

This observation is in no way intended to deny that the Ten Commandments, or more particularly the Bible in its entirety, played a role in this nation’s founding and its laws. Of course it did, though not to the exclusion of all other influences.

Indeed, the General Assembly seeks to mitigate the past overemphasis in this debate by ordering that the Command-ments be posted alongside the Mayflower Compact and the Declaration of Independence. That’s the right educational idea, though far too narrow if a “lesson” is to be provided.

The Compact in particular contains a repetitive reference to God. The Declaration uses the more deist “Creator.” The actual fundamental law of the land and founding document, the U.S. Constitution, which will appar-ently not be displayed, makes no mention of God other than in its dating. Indeed, it makes a point of saying that legislative bodies should make no laws regarding religion — something the state’s legislators appear to have missed in their reading of it.

AS FOR the Commandments themselves, HB 491 specifies the King James version be posted even though there are several differing lists of Ten Commandments among the major faiths. When it comes to underpinning existing law, the commandments actually do not. They are mostly moral statements and guidelines not written into American law.

Indeed, commandments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 and 10 (as listed in HB 941) could be violated in the presence of a judge without there being any recourse under law to make an arrest.

About the worst the judge could say is tut-tut.

If the General Assembly’s purpose was truly to salute the “givers of laws” it could have done so in the same manner as displayed on the U.S. Supreme Court building. The justices might indeed be hard-put to overturn courthouse displays that imitate their own.

However, neither the Compact or Declaration can be found there, though Moses, bearer of the Ten Commandments, can be (although only Commandments 6 through 10, in Hebrew, are visible).

It would also be necessary for HB 941 to additionally include a posting of the works of these lawgivers whose images are found on the building’s frieze:

Menes, first king of Egypt; Hammurabi, founder of the Babylonian Empire; Solomon, king of Israel and renowned judge; Lycurgus, reformer of Sparta’s constitution; Solon, the Athenian lawgiver; Draco, who wrote down the Athenian laws; Confucius, the Chinese philosopher; Octavian (Augustus), first emperor of the Roman Empire; Justinian, Byzantine emperor; Muhammad (yes, that one), prophet of Islam.

Also Charlemagne, king of the Franks; King John of England who signed the Magna Carta; Louis IX of France; Hugo Grotius of the Netherlands and founder of international law; Sir William Blackstone, English professor and jurist; John Marshall, fourth chief justice of the United States; Napoleon, emperor of France and author of its civil code.

IN THE 140-26 House stampede to look “right with God” all of Floyd County’s representatives endorsed this misguided measure. It is a sad commentary on how politics appears to have become even more important than principles, religious or otherwise, to note that many with reservations nonetheless failed to stand up for their convictions.

Certainly there was much wisdom in the comment by Rep. Winfred Dukes, D-Albany, that “The God we serve really and truly doesn’t need the General Assembly to do his bidding.” Alas, Dukes voted for it anyway.

Said Rep. Frank Millar, R-Dunwoody: “If we lump the Bible with the Mayflower Compact and the Declaration of Indepen-dence, are we demeaning the Bible? I don’t think the Bible belongs in that context.” Millar laudably and bravely cast one of the few no votes.

To the extent that HB 941 takes the Ten Commandments conflict to a new level — that of having taxpayers who don’t want any part of this having to pay the legal expenses of the pro-Commandments side — this is an insult to individual liberty added to the insult of attempting to replace a democracy with a theocracy.

The way to do true honor to the Ten Commandments is not to forcibly dangle them in front of those who are disinterested in their content; it is to live them.
Click to expand...
Source
 
Yes, some of the forefathers were also all kinds, only few doesn't believe or believes. But many has been firm in their faith in God. So much politics and even tho trying to removed the picture of the american leaders who bowed in prayers, trying to remove picture of Pocohontas baptisms and many, and pervert the American history, NOT the church. Yes, I know George Washington is a deist, but strong support of the Bible and the reason you haven't got the whole history is because ben removed but thankfully someone keep the history by knowing someone will pervert the true american history. But, as u ask what if islam, or wiccan or other religion takes over. No problem, nothing new thru thousands of years, when the old, Daniel, and other strongfaith in God under babylonian (which is now islamic world) forced them to worship the king, which they refuse. U think if that happen I will be left out, NOPE! God is with me and still worship my TRUE LIVING GOD. Other religion may win victories, but only short time, but my Living God is forever and ever to be praise, there is no other gods like my Living God. My prayer for this country to continue to pour grace. As my great frandfather said, he is thankfully even hard time he face, as he said he rather face what he face than what I will face, he's right. He s gone with the Lord and that's where my mom is also. Apostasy population is growing rapid when all the scientist claim proof and even some scientist admit that they are trying to lead people to believe and be dangerous. But you think I'm going out there protest? NO! God forbid. If Jesus doesn't do that, then I won't. But I stand firm of my faith the God I love, not being religious. My God is Great God of mercy and love in Christ Jesus. But let God's love flow in and thru me to give everone around me and yes, even mercy. Just like a man full of faith name Stephen the more of his love to God, the angrier the mob becomes and stone him to death, that what lead one man who is a leader of the mob been converted. Love conquers all. I will hold resent or anything. Smile
 
hottiedeafboi said:
There are many beautiful testimonies of the lives who have been changed and how God has done in their lives. Pocohontas is one of them. Don't know who, couldn't remember, somewhere in here said, how christians should leave the indians be and other religions. It isn't the person, it is God that called them to do. It isn't forcible either, but let the Spirit lead them to do. Rev. Whitehead been called by God to share the Gospel to the Indians near his area, but he refuse, he hated indians bec what indians has done. But God persist him, so he gave up and go and share the gospel.
Click to expand...
There are three issues at play here:
1. My need or someone else's need to share a personal missive about faith with others.
2. The desire to respect and honor others on their faith path, even if different from mine.
3. The State imposing or suggesting one narrow definition of faith is the only accepatble defininition.

I openly share with others about my faith - nothing the Government does can stop me from this, because I am allowed by the Constitution to engage in free speech and in the free practice of religion.

I wish for other people to be respectful of my faith - I expect to be treated with fairness and dignity even by those who do not believe the same things I do. When I go into a Christian Bookstore I expect to be able to shop and not be mistreated though it is entirely likely I share very few views in common with the owners of most Christian bookstores. When I go to a Jewish deli or a Chinese restaurant, I expect to be served food like anyone else, though I am of differeing beliefs and differing ethnicity. I also appreciate when people of differing faiths do not condemn me for what I believe in - though, in fact, it is my fellow Christians who are most apt to tell me I am going to Hell for what I believe in. Just as I desire and expect a certain amount of respect, I must also be willing to give it. It helps that I don't think people of other faiths (or no faith) are condemned or need to be saved.

Because MY Christian faith is somewhat unlike many main-line Christians, I might be one of the first to suffer if our Government adopted some official stance on religious matters. You members of fundamentalist Christian sects beware - you are a minority amoung Christians - you would not likely win support if it came down to a "popularity contest". In Rome, Christians were killed for sport, and as a result, the early Christian Church hierarchy forced Gnostic Christians underground to distance themselves from radical Gnostic beliefs. In Nazi Germany, they went after Jews, but not JUST Jews - they went after Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, etc. In China and Cuba, the practice of ANY religion is difficult, and followers of Christianity, Judaism and Islam have been persecuted. In Colonial times, Spain persecuted Jews, Muslims and Native Americans, and England persecuted Catholics, Congregationalists (I am a Congregationalist), and Anabaptists. Currently in Iran, only one sect of Islam is supported by the State, and Jews, Christians, and followers of other Islamic sects are persecuted. We have seen throughout history that when the State supports only one religious view, people are persecuted, killed, tortured, driven away...

Jesus preached a message of RADICAL INCLUSIVITY. His love was limitless, and we were called upon to emulate that with boundless and unconditional love. To me, making it hard for a Jew, a Muslim, a Lakota Sioux, a Hindu, a Mormon, a Jain, a Catholic...(ad infinitum) to live, worship and prosper in society would be possibly the most UN-Christian thing I could do. I could not support a government that did this. If that means I must coexist with others who do not share my beliefs, then so be it. It is what I am called upon to do as a Christian. Forcing my 10 Commandments, my story of Adam and Eve, my story of Noah, my prayers onto their children in public schools and onto adults in the courts and other public agencies would be wrong - even if I think my concepts are "right". Christ wouldn't behave this way.
 
hottiedeafboy, you wouldn't like it if someone came up to you and started hectoring you about going to hell, b/c you did not follow their beliefs would you? So in order to avoid that sort of stuff, we need to be NEUTRAL about religion. It's nice,that you feel religious, BUT in order to avoid conflict, we need to be NEUTRAL!?!?!
 
I have not said a word about "you are going to hell". By going to heaven is not based on what u do. I'm not going to heaven bec I go to church, I'm not going to heaven bec I don't do this and that. The eternal Hope is based on what Christ did. He took my place, He bore all of my sinfulness and paid all my sin debt in full. Not just for me only, but its also for the whole world. Jesus wants you to come to Him. His arms is wide open and never turn His back on anyone. There is no other like that. Not only that, think about it, look at Pharoah, look at Babylonians, Syrians and other religions. Would that mean God will not welcome them, no, He will, only if they do what God tells them to do and same with us. Remember in Book of Isaiah says "self righteousness is like a filthy rags". Its not what we do to make us go to heaven, its what Christ did. As in Book of Romans says " not one is perfect, all have sin and comes short of the glory of God". Also says, "while we re yet sinners, Christ died for us." Is it to hard to do? No, see how much God loves us so much. There is no other message compare as this. That's a real freedom. Smile
 
I noticed that this was an elective course.

I want to raise a point here--why is it that universities receiving government funds are allowed to teach elective courses about religions? This includes Christianity. If such universities may teach these courses, then what's different about other schools teaching the same courses, that students are not required to take in order to graduate?

I'm not sure I really have a clear opinion about this yet, but I'd like to see this point discussed.
 
Rose Immortal said:
I want to raise a point here--why is it that universities receiving government funds are allowed to teach elective courses about religions? This includes Christianity.
Click to expand...
1. There is no cumpulsory attendance beyond the 12th grade in the United States. ALL College courses are therefore, elective, as no one is forced to attend or take a specific academic path.
2. Even the most hardened atheists of acedemia would not likely object to the scholarly study of relgion in the context of a general education or hummanities curriculum.

At universities, even classes about the Bible, do not use ONLY the Bible as study material. While I doubt the purpose of the new law is to introduce a scholarly examination of the Bible into the Primary and Secondary grades, the actual curriculum of these classes remains to be seen. The truth is, it is already legal to use the Bible as reference material in social studies, history and cultural anthropology settings(Not appropriate in a biology setting because the Bible isn't science.) What is prohibited is the establishment of preference for one religion over another (or appearence of).

When you propose to me a curriculum which teaches the subject matter in a scholarly manner, and allows children the free expression and formation of thought, and does not attempt to skew the discussion to prosthelatizing, I would have no problem with it...

as long as these same children have already mastered reading, arithmetic, and critical thinking skills.

Until schools have taught these basic functions successfully, parents, administrators and school boards have no business even discussing additional curriculum.

Otherwise, it's the business of churches, parents and parochial schools to teach religion.
 
Tragic thing is parents think that its school job to train them and stuff and expect children learn from them which is very dangerous thing to do based on what topics. Main repsonsible is the parents, then school. As me a father, my job is not I do the verbal and kids keeps quiet. Has to be communications. For instance, I have seen some christians are very extreme, but I have to admit, that's not how God taught me that way. Father preached the bible in family gathering and then prayed and done. That I don't agree. We have family gathering bible stories that is I participate with them as they with me, like a feed back and share. If my kids go wrong, I don't punish them right them, I showed them btwn right and wrong. See my wife and I are deaf, but for me not totally deaf, one woman from the church, she remind me of Harriet Oleson of Little House on the prairie show who owned the store. That woman pure gossippers, and she came to me by saying u need to punish ur daughter bec she said foul language. I told her, thanks for letting me know, but as punish goes, its not ur place for saying that, thank you. So I have a talk with my daughter and pointing out why she said that, bec she didn't know its a bad word, bec her friend said that too. So I taught her it is not nice and its wrong. She understood. Then somehow, her friend said those words and then my daughter ask if her friend knows its bad word, her friend didn't know. Then her friend wouldn't say that again bec didn't know its bad, bec her friend learned that from the parents. I have seen many kids been punished very harshly which I don't agree. As I mentioned on other thread even teacher teaches kis there is no god, which my daughter didn't agree with the teacher and not cutting down, but very appropriate question to ask the teacher. The teacher was impressed with my daughter and have a good point that teacher couldn't answer. Teacher look at my daughter as heart to heart kind. You may ask how, she will say the same I say, Christ in me and how my dad show and I learn from what I do to others. Even tho, all the disagreement about school and religions is really controversial one side against the other. But all I can say, its the best I can share. But my faith in Christ stand, its not my religion, its my life. I rather have a relationship with Christ than being religious.
 
hottiedeafboy, you're STILL not answering my question!!!!!! We're not being anti-Christian by being neutral towards religion. I mean, imgine if you lived in a majority Islam/Judiasim/Shinto/fill in the blank here with whatever religion country, that ignored your faith in favor of always proclaiming " Happy el-Eid, or Happy Purim or Happy whatever?" You'd feel left out right? So in order not to promote favortism (eg in the study of a sacred text) the government should either support ALL religions (which would take up a ton of time and money) or adopt a stance of neutrality!
 
I did answer ur question, look at Daniel, who worship Jehovah God which babylonian worship other gods. The King of Nebuchadnezzar love Daniel, then three men who hated Daniel and knowing Daniel worship Living God, so try to brainwashed King Nebuchanezzer, bec how much the king loves Daniel, even tho the king doesn't worship the same Daniel worship. So trying to established the law and make king sign the bill that those who refuse to bow and worship the king will be executed/ what happen, the king forgot about Daniel. What happen these men tricked the king by signing it, as ask the king does it not that u signed that all who does not bow and worship you should be executed, and king answer, yes. Then what broke the king's heart is these men told them Daniel is one of them. King has no choice, bec he signed the bill. So aplied todays world, islamic world is similar, if anyone convert to be a christian should be executed and still is today. There are other religion has similar to that, which is who rather believe other religions. Now, as for me as a christians, christian does not execute anyone. Yes, in very early in years there were battle of rleigion and execute. But that's not what Christ taught. But other religion they do. If islam takes over, then I'll be on death row, bec I refuse. If they are in atrong christian world, they will not be in death row. Being religious doesn't mean anything. But Christ Himself. So much religious views of many way they try to so call live up to it. Truthfully, it may happen there will be some different religion take power and even if I lose everyone, its hard yes, but never alone, bec God is with me, bec my life in His Son what He did, not what I did.
 
Ummm no you didn't. All you're doing is yapping about what's in the Bible (and not very well.....I don't even undy what ur saying!) Showing favoritism towards a particualr religion or even a particualr creed isn't what the government is about. We are made up of MANY people....we live in a MULTICULTRAL society! The government should not show favoritism towards ANY one religion.
 
Oh, and how would you like it if I started quoting from the Book of Shadows or the Koran or any other sacred writings that YOU didn't believe in to prove my point?
 
Well, its not just Bible saying, its what has happen, what is today is the sme as thousands years ago. I'm not here to so call prove a point issue, who win or lose as I see all the differ views. Here is the example, in Trinidad/Tobago, I was performing in music in sign language, there were intereligion involved there, I ve been told about the lady who has a beautiful dress never smile at once and she's a very strict Islam. In the end, she came to me with a smile which many was shocked by seeing her smile, as she said, I have never seen or sense truly God is here as she sees my face glowed she never seen. She said I sense the drawing to receive Him, but rather she kept her Islamic in her life bec tradition of the family. You know what? I said, thanks and all you said I give God the glory because its He that touches you with His love, not me. She said I know and seen it and appreciating me for what she saw thru me. I don't make her to make a decision, she saw the Truth, but she made a choice. Do I look down her? Nope. Jesus been there how I felt. Felt what? You may ask and my answer is sadden. You see its not just religion issue. Many have believing differently. All the views like who is right or wrong is not the issue. The issue is there will be a time there not going to be all different religion or I say be a religion. Its what God has plan. Like u said, jabbering about the bible is no different as jabbering about other religion. See, proving point will not get me anywhere, I have confront different religion and its not my job to make them change, I'm just planting to seed what God called me to do, each people lives are like different soil. That is based on how each individual respond. I rather have relationship with God than being religion. Its ok if they want to so call "prove a point" of their belief. But there is only One Door to lead eternal life.
 
MorriganTait said:
1. There is no cumpulsory attendance beyond the 12th grade in the United States. ALL College courses are therefore, elective, as no one is forced to attend or take a specific academic path.
2. Even the most hardened atheists of acedemia would not likely object to the scholarly study of relgion in the context of a general education or hummanities curriculum.

At universities, even classes about the Bible, do not use ONLY the Bible as study material. While I doubt the purpose of the new law is to introduce a scholarly examination of the Bible into the Primary and Secondary grades, the actual curriculum of these classes remains to be seen. The truth is, it is already legal to use the Bible as reference material in social studies, history and cultural anthropology settings(Not appropriate in a biology setting because the Bible isn't science.) What is prohibited is the establishment of preference for one religion over another (or appearence of).

When you propose to me a curriculum which teaches the subject matter in a scholarly manner, and allows children the free expression and formation of thought, and does not attempt to skew the discussion to prosthelatizing, I would have no problem with it...

as long as these same children have already mastered reading, arithmetic, and critical thinking skills.

Until schools have taught these basic functions successfully, parents, administrators and school boards have no business even discussing additional curriculum.

Otherwise, it's the business of churches, parents and parochial schools to teach religion.
Click to expand...

I've actually seen two examples that were done pretty well, in schools I went to. One was an actual Comparative Religions course that explained the tenets of the world's major religions, and another was an English course where a book of the Bible (Ecclesiastes) was analyzed as part of the course, as literature. It was handled very well, in a way that did not insult anyone--non-believers OR believers.
 
deafdyke said:
I mean, imgine if you lived in a majority Islam/Judiasim/Shinto/fill in the blank here with whatever religion country, that ignored your faith in favor of always proclaiming " Happy el-Eid, or Happy Purim or Happy whatever?" You'd feel left out right?
Click to expand...

I'm sure he'd feel really out of place if we dropped him in Israel or Iran. Iran particularly so since there's no freedom of religion there.
 
No, you are not sure if I'm in israel or iran or whatever, I ll be out of place. Whether any where I go, not out of braggin, bec I'm human like everyone else. But that won't shake my faith of reality, not religion. Oh respect that religion, oh respect this religion oh its ok cutting down christians, they deserve it. I ve been hearing that a lot. I respect other religions what they believe and not only that, I understand, your views how christians are, many do not do accordingly, they go out and protest this and that, tho we can voice, but not out of anger or something like that. Jesus didn't call us to do that, there are very few awesome example of christian people. If christian has the power in this country, will that mean they will make people believe what they believe, if a person devote to christ and be a living testimony, he or she will not make them to, bec that person knows its God's but only our job is to share, but not making them to believe. If I go to Iraq, and I refuse to believe their belief, I won't be here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top