For Skilling and Lay, no posh prisons

ITPjohn

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When I saw this just now, I got choked up reading it. :tears: These two jerks ruined thousands of people's lives and now they could have a rough time in the big house. At least they can afford to get the best lawyers in town to put off their trip to lock up for a "few" weeks. :nana:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA052606.01A.Enronpunish.219dc241.html

For Skilling and Lay, No Posh Punishment

Web Posted: 05/26/2006 12:00 AM CDT
Mark Babineck
Houston Chronicle

The elimination of notoriously comfortable "Club Fed" lockups, along with a recent trend of handing out hard time to Enron-related convicts, could mean Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling will share prison space with drug dealers, child pornographers and gang members.

There was a time when white-collar criminals could count on assignment to minimum-security prisons, known as "Club Feds" because of their cushy conditions — dorm-style living, fewer guards, fewer restrictions — particularly compared to traditional units.

But the U.S. Bureau of Prisons has closed four of those facilities recently, and government rules require nonviolent inmates with long sentences to be upgraded to more severe security levels designated as "low" or "medium."

Experts predict Skilling and Lay are likely to receive sentences of 12 to 25 years.

And any punishment of more than 10 years practically guarantees a more secure prison because sentence length is a major factor in placement, said Alan Ellis, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and a specialist in sentencing and prison placement of white-collar offenders.

Common inhabitants of such units are drug felons, scam artists, child pornographers and even people with violent pasts who have shown good behavior in more secure units.

Sentences of 25 years or more likely will mean a step up to medium security, Ellis said.

"Now you're having carjackers, bank robbers, people with assaultive histories and people doing life who kept their noses clean and were moved down," Ellis said.

U.S. District Judge Sim Lake is scheduled to hand down punishment Sept. 11.

The only people convicted in Enron-related trials before Thursday were all sent to low-security prisons despite clean backgrounds and sentences of less than four years each.

Former Enron Treasurer Ben Glisan Jr., who pleaded guilty to conspiracy, began serving his five-year stretch in a low-security unit before being shipped down to a minimum-security camp once he began cooperating with prosecutors.

Federal judges can recommend destinations, but the prison system ultimately decides.

Bureau officials say they try to place prisoners within 500 miles of home in the lowest level of security for which they qualify, but their rules allow an inmate to be upgraded to the next level without cause.

Of course, Lay and Skilling will try to remain free on bail during inevitable appeals. Attorneys said such bail is rare in Houston federal courts, though, and to get one Lake must decide the two men are not flight risks and have a "substantial likelihood" of getting their convictions or sentences overturned.

As for prison, where California Attorney General Bill Lockyer once remarked publicly he'd like to see Lay share a cell "with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey,'" Houston defense lawyer Kent Schaffer says the federal system tends to be safer than state lockups.

"The Bureau of Prisons is going to want to make sure Ken Lay is not assaulted in prison," Schaffer said. "If somebody of that stature is assaulted in any way, that's going to be really bad PR for the United States government."

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mark.babineck@chron.com
 
I saw a documentary about the Enron people which really made a point about just how crooked they were. They were so arrogant that they even made videos in which they parodied their own illegal actions and laughed about it--that among other things.

So, I'm VERY glad they're getting a longer, less comfortable stay. Prison should not be torturous, but it shouldn't be a picnic, and I think these two should have to roll up their sleeves and do hard labor from sunup to sundown.

BTW, the documentary is called The Smartest Guys in the Room, and its website is here: http://www.enronmovie.com/

It's based on a book by the same title, for anybody interested. I believe it was written at least in part by a journalist who was one of the first to get a whiff of the rotten stuff going on at Enron.
 
State prisons are where you will see angry men fight everyday and see murders happen and you keep your mouth shut when the guards and the warden ask who killed that guy and point to the dead guy on the tier. You will see violent sodomy rapes. You will see drugs change hands, there are gang wars in prison, you will see so many tattoos on guys than all the tattoo artist stores put together across America, you will see combat war veterans battle it out with prison guards and bad guys, you will see so many things that will make you so angry, so violent, you will see religious gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood, Muslim Brotherhood, Latin Kings and yes they are a religious hispanic gang fight it out. You will see alots of big strong guys , you will see so many things , you will see shemales walk the tier in need of sex, I mean the list goes and goes on and ....

The most dangerous of them all are the lifers who got nothing to lose so they can fight all day and become extremely proficient at hand to hand combat and become killers in prison.

State prisons are the real horror show.
 
Well, what about their wives ? They probably still
have these BIG mansions themselves as well as
putting their children names on their houses.
 
Y said:
Well, what about their wives ? They probably still
have these BIG mansions themselves as well as
putting their children names on their houses.

They are innocent souls so probably nothing will happen to them.
 
Good thing no Club Feds for both Kenny boy and Skilling! But they oughta be kicked over to the Florence ADMAX prison in Colorado better known as "Alcatraz in the Rockies" because their crime is so heinous and left many many employees of Enron poor with their 401K's wiped out!
 
Heath said:
They are innocent souls so probably nothing will happen to them.

Wow ! Skilling and Lay's wives still have
their own houses still using these employees money !!!

What should be done that might be Fair enough ?
 
Y said:
Wow ! Skilling and Lay's wives still have
their own houses still using these employees money !!!

What should be done that might be Fair enough ?

I am sure something will be worked out where they can still keep the house because obivously a woman and her children should not be homeless. It is not safe and I think it would be a good idea for them to build an apartment where the wife can rent to people then get money coming in every month so that the kids have something to eat and the wife will still be able to live comfortably with her kids. There is no reason to throw his problems on her and the kids. That is why I said they are innocent souls.
 
Heath said:
I am sure something will be worked out where they can still keep the house because obivously a woman and her children should not be homeless. It is not safe and I think it would be a good idea for them to build an apartment where they can rent to people then get money coming in every month so that the kids have something to eat and the wife will still be able to live comfortably with her kids. There is no reason to throw his problems on her and the kids. That is why I said they are innocent souls.



How do you know if their wives are "innocent souls" ??
 
In the case of the wife that was not innocent that I know of--Lea Fastow, wife of Andy Fastow--I believe the law caught on and handled that. If there are any more cases like that, I would expect them to prosecute as they did with Fastow's wife rather than punishing them...AND children...indirectly somehow.
 
Rose Immortal said:
In the case of the wife that was not innocent that I know of--Lea Fastow, wife of Andy Fastow--I believe the law caught on and handled that. If there are any more cases like that, I would expect them to prosecute as they did with Fastow's wife rather than punishing them...AND children...indirectly somehow.


IF they prosecute his wife THEN does this mean
that his wife AND children still have the
same house "From Enron's money" as
an advantage ?
 
If the wife knew what was going on but could not really talk about it then I would not prosecute her for that since she is a woman who really was not in that too great of a position which was really not her fault so I would not hold her to it.

but...... if I have evidence she is directly taking money another than through her husband giving her money out of his pocket to her. What I mean is that she is taking money from the workers, shareholders and things like that then I will have no choice but to prosecute her and I would have the district attorney assistant find a good home for the children until she is done with her time at a women's correctional facility. It would have to be very clear, un-deniable evidence that she clearly took the money because if I was the district attorney then I would have no problem sending the guys to prison because they can fight in prison but I wouldn't like it that too much to send women to prison, there is something just wrong about sending women to prison so I want to be extra sure she really took the money illegally. Women really are not supposed to be sitting in prison. That is not normal, man ......
 
Y said:
IF they prosecute his wife THEN does this mean
that his wife AND children still have the
same house "From Enron's money" as
an advantage ?

I'm not sure what was done for the children. I DO think that whatever happens, they should be put in a decent home, even if not a rich one, and cared for well if both of their parents are in jail. They were uninvolved, so they should be able to go to college and have a decent chance at life, whatever happens.
 
Rose Immortal said:
I'm not sure what was done for the children. I DO think that whatever happens, they should be put in a decent home, even if not a rich one, and cared for well if both of their parents are in jail. They were uninvolved, so they should be able to go to college and have a decent chance at life, whatever happens.

Amen to that !!!!! :) :thumb:
 
I agree with RoseImmortal about their kids. I doubt that the wives and kids will be on government assistance anytime soon. Skilling and Lay had access to the best lawyers AND accountants for years. It's possible that they took advantage of every IRS loophole they could find, including giving several thousand dollars to their children's trust funds every year. The appeals could drag on for years. These jerks aren't going to go easy.
 
More likely No! Right now it is in criminal court system. Once it is over, the civil court will be kicked in. These victims will ultimate sue for the damages. Once anyone is found guilty in criminal court, the victim needs one evidence for civil court... that is guilty verdict from criminal court, that is when Victim can try to recover the damages, and these wives and children of crooks have to face that! 99% chance that they are gonna to lose everything. They also will have to face all of the creditors that crooks messed up with, and so forth. All criminals and their kins always going to face civil courts after the criminal court is complete for any wrongful action liablities.

Y said:
IF they prosecute his wife THEN does this mean
that his wife AND children still have the
same house "From Enron's money" as
an advantage ?
 
Don't forget the civil court that most victim will go after! It is gonna be class action suit for sure. The cost of the damage is gonna be far more than what these jerks got in their hands. Just watch them, they will be wiped out for sure.

ITPjohn said:
I agree with RoseImmortal about their kids. I doubt that the wives and kids will be on government assistance anytime soon. Skilling and Lay had access to the best lawyers AND accountants for years. It's possible that they took advantage of every IRS loophole they could find, including giving several thousand dollars to their children's trust funds every year. The appeals could drag on for years. These jerks aren't going to go easy.
 
The wife and the kids still should not be treated like that. They should have a safety net for themselves. They are innocent souls and do not deserve this. The heat should stay squarely on the shoulders of that man.
 
Heath said:
I am sure something will be worked out where they can still keep the house because obivously a woman and her children should not be homeless.

Throw the jail birds kids and their mommies out onto the street and let them learn how to eat humble pie and go to bed hungry for awhile, then come back and tell me to be merciful, pal.
 
Heath said:
The wife and the kids still should not be treated like that. They should have a safety net for themselves. They are innocent souls and do not deserve this. The heat should stay squarely on the shoulders of that man.

They should have thought of that before. Get them the heck out . . . NOW!!!
 
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