FDA-Shocking Results on CI Statically

[sr171soars]

The one thing I must wonder about is what happens if a CI isn't the best choice? The reason I say that is that I have worn HAs all my 39 years. I carefully researched a CI last year (I have written about this many times already in previous threads so feel free to check some of my older postings about tests results, etc. if you like) and met with a CI audi (with my family). The results were that I was far deaf enough to qualify, and that I would gain a lot in environmental sounds, but not so in speech discrimination. Based on that I opted not to get one. I plan to stick with my HAs for the time being. So for some, would HAs be the better way to go? Just food for thought.

It always comes down to what the person's expectations are and whether it is worth the effort to get a CI. In a nutshell, of course for some getting a CI is not the best choice. This isn't always cut and dried as one likes it to be.

I'm reminded of that well known phrase..."Decisions, decisions, decisions..."

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

You still are missing the point, its about the decision not the implant itself. But others are right, this horse has been beaten dead. When and if you have kids, you might have a better understanding.

I am holding back on the last sentence... however:

It is already established that it is up to the parents' to decide what to do, and that there are regrets expressed by other older members. So there is no need to debate on that. What you don't understand is that you keep using false analogy, and choose to debate it as such. I am just debunking that analogy. So in the future, use a better example. So while people are supportive of sr171soars, at least he is not using fallacious statements and that is why he is winning approvals from everyone involved.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long the child is getting the emotional support she or he need.

I'm reminded of that well known phrase..."Decisions, decisions, decisions..."

Good thing you brought this up.

 

[AlleyCat]

It always comes down to what the person's expectations are and whether it is worth the effort to get a CI. In a nutshell, of course for some getting a CI is not the best choice. This isn't always cut and dried as one likes it to be.

I'm reminded of that well known phrase..."Decisions, decisions, decisions..."

That is very much my point, and what I was more or less saying in my last post. Too many are saying "this is better than another" and criticizing others' decisions. I'd love to see that stop. I made the decision that was best for me. Others have made decisions they felt was best for them, whether it's to stick with HAs, go with a CI, or wait for future technology. Who are we to tell others what they should or shouldn't do?

I like your ending phrase, but my favorite is "what may work for some doesn't necessarily work for all." It has been said by many of us here time and time again.

 

[rockdrummer]

Then it would be better to pick a more relevant example rather than taking a basket of oranges and setting it beside a basket of apples. Compare cochlear implants to eye surgery.

They both can improve hearing and vision, but they don't fix them. They are both amending non-life threatening conditions. They both have risks and same potentially (negative) long-term consequences. Parents choose CI and eye surgeries in hope that their children will fare better in life.

If my children have vision loss, or sight loss, I would be hard-pressed to give them eye surgeries or something like that. I am not sure what my decision would be once it come down to it. I know I say that I believe in personal liberty and individualism, however theory does not always translate into practice. So, I will have to see when the "brown matters hit the fan." I would like to believe I would leave the kid alone, but I have doubts that I would practise my belief when it come down to it.

Sorry CJB.

That is an honest answer. I said in other threads that the people that don't have children probably don't understand what it is like to be in that position. When I was a very young child (less than 2) my parents did elect to have eye surgury on my left eye. I have worn glasses all my life but I also know that my vision would be much worse if they had not made that decision for me. A decision that I was way to young to make on my own. I am happy that they did that for me and I am sure it was not an easy decision to make. Just as puting your child under any surgury is a difficult decision.

 

[rockdrummer]

<Heavy sarcasm> "The world according to Garp!"

It is your opinion that it is safer not implanting a child with a CI. Fine, so be it. But let's quit beating a dead horse. It all comes down to a parent's decision for better or worst. We need to learn to respect that and move on.

If one has never been a parent (I'm a parent with two kids), you cannot say for absolute certainty what you will and will not do. Life has a way of throwing curves at you forcing one to reevaluate previously held convictions. Sometimes they change and sometimes they don't. I guarantee that you will not be the same person before kids as compared to after kids.

You sir (as usual) have hit the nail on the head. You understand what goes into this. I would wager that many of those that are so against a parents decision don't even have children themselves.

 

[rockdrummer]

For me the most important thing is that a Deaf child is exposed to sign language and Deaf culture, CI or no CI.

Agreed to a certian extent. You know that there are some D/eaf that are audist's and will shun other deafs with CI. That kind of attitude makes it difficult for exposure to deaf culture. If everyone was more accepting of eachother that would become much eaiser.

 

[faire_jour]

Bear in mind that your daughter's generation's implant canidacy was a lot stricter. Only kids who couldn't benifit from HA AT ALL could get implanted.Now canidacy is a lot more loose, so that even a lot of kids who wouldn't have been implanted at ALL, are now getting implanted.
The CI is AWESOME for those who cannot benifit at ALL from tradtional hearing aids.
And Fair jour....yes there are speech sounds which can only be differentated by reading lips. For example th and p. Seriously....the CI really can give good hearing......but the majority of pediatric implantees will have access to different sounds from being mildly hoh to awareness of enviormental sounds and everything in between..........Just like the hearing results were with hearing aids. There are some kids who are superstars with HA (with severe-profound losses) but there are also kids who can only get a small percentage of speech or enviormental sounds....Just like with CI!

No, there is a huge difference in the way "p" and "th" sound. Sorry, you are wrong about that.

 

[ref74]

I am in the difficult position of being a father who have to make a choice for his son.
I strongly believe that only who has been in the same situation can really understand.

I am struggling with myself, during all my free-time my brain is focused on that, I am collecting a lot of information, the discussion with my wife are almost always on that. We discuss so often with the audi, the therapists, our family doctor, some friends, our families...
I am usually a very rational person, I like to decide on the basis of facts, but hey, here it is about my child! I am not for or against anything, I only want to take the right decision. It is for him, not for me. I would like so much to give him my hearing and have his deafness in exchange, everything would be on myself, then...
These are probably very common parents' feelings in similar situations...

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

That is an honest answer. I said in other threads that the people that don't have children probably don't understand what it is like to be in that position. When I was a very young child (less than 2) my parents did elect to have eye surgury on my left eye. I have worn glasses all my life but I also know that my vision would be much worse if they had not made that decision for me. A decision that I was way to young to make on my own. I am happy that they did that for me and I am sure it was not an easy decision to make. Just as puting your child under any surgury is a difficult decision.

Not to mention the best example to give, because many deaf people believe in "curing" blindness. To many people, it's "not the same thing," however many Deaf people are also ignorant of the Blind culture; just like hearing people are ignorant of Deaf culture. So it is the same thing, if that makes sense...

And you will find many Deaf people will do anything to repair vision loss, just like many hearing parents will do anything to restore hearing.

No written language on one hand except Braille, no spoken language on the other hand except sign language. (And about 90% of the blind people in Canada are functionally illiterate and are unable to get a job because of that since the education system believe in audio-tapes and text-to-voice screen readers.)

 

[Hear Again]

rockdrummer,

You mentioned having eye surgery at age 2. In my case, hearing aids and ear surgery were recommended for me at age 3, but my parents' health insurance wouldn't cover the cost (for reasons I do not know). Sometimes I find myself wondering what my hearing (and life in general) would be like today if I had the surgery or hearing aids back then. Don't get me wrong...I'm more than happy to have CIs and am very satisfied with the way I've lived my life thus far, but it is something I wonder about just the same.

 

[Pinky]

That's really too bad you were rejected at the Deaf school.

It's hard to be deafblind sometimes cause many blind people reject you for being deaf and many deaf people reject you for being blind. So it's a no win situation in both communities. I can understand you cause I had lots of problems with reading as a child too since I was legally blind.

I feel very isolated in family events too because I can't hear or see anything that's going on and most people don't have the patience to tell me what's going on.

I'm glad your parents didn't force you to get the CI despite your fears. After all when you were ready you got it and it was successful. If you got it as a young child you might have hated it cause of the trauma surrounding the hospital. Sounds like it worked out for you in terms of the CI though.

I am not legally blind yet. I never go to school for the blind. I didn't want to go. I don't think my children will be deaf. My husband is hearing and do not have deaf in his genetic family.

 

[sallylou]

Fair joure is our own Cliff Clavin. You gotta love that.

 

[ref74]

Pretty old (2004), but still interesting paper pasted below. It seems that with the newest processors things are a bit different, anyway, I think it is an intereting reading.

AMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association
Volume 291
Issue 19
Pages 2378-2380
Speech, language, and reading skills after early cochlear implantation
By: Geers, Ann E.; Niparko, John K.

Abstract:
Objective: To examine whether age at cochlear implantation or duration of implant use is assocd. with speech, language, and reading skills exhibited at age 8 to 9 yr in children who underwent implantation by age 5 yr. Design: Performance outcomes in speech perception, speech prodn., language, and reading were examd. in terms of the age at which children first received a cochlear implant (2, 3, or 4 yr), the age they received an updated (Spectra) processor, and the duration of use of an implant and an updated processor. Setting: Data collection was conducted at summer research camps held over 4 consecutive years to maximize the no. of children available at a specific age (8-9 yr). Children were tested individually by experienced examiners, and their parents and therapists provided background and educational history information. Participants: A total of 181 children from 33 different states and 5 Canadian provinces who received a cochlear implant by age 5 yr were tested. A subsample of 133 children with performance IQ scores of 80 or greater and onset of deafness at birth were selected for the age-at-implantation anal. Another subsample of 39 children with deafness acquired by age 3 yr was also examd. Outcome Measures: A battery of tests of speech perception, speech prodn., language, and reading was administered to each child and reduced to a single factor score for each skill. Results: Correlation coeffs. between age at implantation and duration of use did not reach significance for any of the out-come skills measured. Age at which the updated speech processor (Spectra) was fitted was significantly related to speech prodn. outcome (earlier use of an updated processor was assocd. with greater speech intelligibility) but not to any other skill area. However, more of the children who underwent implantation at age 2 yr (43%) achieved combined speech and language skills commensurate with their age-matched peers with normal hearing than did children who underwent implantation at age 4 yr (16%). Furthermore, normal speech and language skills were documented in 80% of children who lost hearing after birth and who underwent implantation within a year of onset of deafness. Conclusions: For children who receive a cochlear implant between the ages of 2 and 4 yr, early cochlear implantation does not ensure better speech perception, speech prodn., language, or reading skills. However, greater speech and language proficiency may be expected from children who exhibit normal hearing for even a brief period after birth and receive a cochlear implant shortly after losing their hearing. Further research examg. the benefits of cochlear implantation before age 2 yr will help families and clinicians better understand the time-sensitive nature of the decision to conduct cochlear implant surgery.

 

[faire_jour]

Fair joure is our own Cliff Clavin. You gotta love that.

Actually, I am well informed because I do the research. Maybe others should too, instead of just talking out of their ass.

 

[faire_jour]

I am in the difficult position of being a father who have to make a choice for his son.
I strongly believe that only who has been in the same situation can really understand.

I am struggling with myself, during all my free-time my brain is focused on that, I am collecting a lot of information, the discussion with my wife are almost always on that. We discuss so often with the audi, the therapists, our family doctor, some friends, our families...
I am usually a very rational person, I like to decide on the basis of facts, but hey, here it is about my child! I am not for or against anything, I only want to take the right decision. It is for him, not for me. I would like so much to give him my hearing and have his deafness in exchange, everything would be on myself, then...
These are probably very common parents' feelings in similar situations...

The question is, will you be comfortable if he doesn't learn to use spoken language if you only use hearing aids? Will you wonder if it could have been different if you had given him a CI? What are the pros of the CI? What are the cons? What will you say if your child grows up and askd you why you DIDN'T give him the CI, and the opportunities that go with it? And what will you say if he comes and asks why you DID "force" the CI on him? Which answer can you live with?

 

[rick48]

actually, i am well informed because i do the research. Maybe others should too, instead of just talking out of their ass.

qft

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Actually, I am well informed because I do the research. Maybe others should too, instead of just talking out of their ass.

I do the research as well, and my feeling toward the technology itself is similar to sr171soars. It just that people don't agree with the mainstream understanding of the technology itself.

The thing is that society is fuelled by emotions, and rightfully so. You have to consider that many of the people involved in the debate were considered as "oral successes" and end up crashing and burning somewhere between high school and post-secondary. They are speaking up so children of this generation and the next generation don't have to go through the same thing.

Everyone does awesome for the first ten or twelves years, and that all researches focus on. It's the barrier that emerges after those first few years become problematic. So some of them are not really "talking out of their ass," unless you happen to be one of those stem-cell debaters. * rolls eyes *

Nothing is wrong with CIs, but it is the definition of insanity: keep doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result.

Honestly, fair_joure, everyone can see you have good intentions, but part of the reason why people are so adamant against your posts is because of the way they are worded.

 

[AlleyCat]

Actually, I am well informed because I do the research. Maybe others should too, instead of just talking out of their ass.

I researched CIs for a long time before I actually met with a CI audi last year. I think most of us who are considering one for ourselves do too. None of us want to do a surgery without researching all that a CI has to offer, or doesn't offer. You do not give us enough credit, and assume that we are just talking out of our asses.

 

[Lighthouse77]

The question is, will you be comfortable if he doesn't learn to use spoken language if you only use hearing aids? Will you wonder if it could have been different if you had given him a CI? What are the pros of the CI? What are the cons? What will you say if your child grows up and askd you why you DIDN'T give him the CI, and the opportunities that go with it? And what will you say if he comes and asks why you DID "force" the CI on him? Which answer can you live with?

I did questioned "WHY DO I HAVE TO WEAR THIS DUMB BOX ON MY CHEST" I grew up in the mainstreamed public school K-12 where I was the ONLY person who had a hearing problem. In fact, I know more deaf people who are angry their parents for forbidding them from sign languages growing up. But I don't know a single one of them saying "why didn't my parents teach me how to speak or make me wear hearing aids" (they are more upset with people who are not acceptable to ASL )
Not yet anyway.

 

[jillio]

I do the research as well, and my feeling toward the technology itself is similar to sr171soars. It just that people don't agree with the mainstream understanding of the technology itself.

The thing is that society is fuelled by emotions, and rightfully so. You have to consider that many of the people involved in the debate were considered as "oral successes" and end up crashing and burning somewhere between high school and post-secondary. They are speaking up so children of this generation and the next generation don't have to go through the same thing.

Everyone does awesome for the first ten or twelves years, and that all researches focus on. It's the barrier that emerges after those first few years become problematic. So some of them are not really "talking out of their ass," unless you happen to be one of those stem-cell debaters. * rolls eyes *

Nothing is wrong with CIs, but it is the definition of insanity: keep doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result.

Honestly, fair_joure, everyone can see you have good intentions, but part of the reason why people are so adamant against your posts is because of the way they are worded.

Well said.