Fathers rights?

smspell

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Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter. The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose. (Discuss this case.)

"There's such a spectrum of choice that women have -- it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."
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Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich.

Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that -- because of a physical condition -- she could not get pregnant.

Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.

"What I expect to hear (from the court) is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court might rule similarly in Dubay's case.

"The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.

Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.

Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.

"Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government -- literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."

Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.

"Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."

"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."

Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

"If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."

The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.

"None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."
 
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What about the father's rights?....
 
Sorry about that Angel. I was trying to put in a poll and it posted instead of giving me the poll setup page.
 
If he didn't want a child, He should protect himself by using protection, even if the woman assured him repeatedly, He should push her back and say, Hey! I don't want kids right now, but he didn't do that. It takes two to make a baby, and if that happened by accident, Oh well shit happens, Have to face up their responsibilities.

I don't believe fathers should have the same rights as pre-mothers do, because the women are the one carrying the unborn baby to full terms, You have any idea how painful is that? It's no picnic, How would men know how women feel when they're not the one carrying the unborn child in their stomach. I believe in women choice, because it's their body. If men don't want any kids, then protect yourself, otherwise if you make a mistake, It's your problem. Can't run away from responsibilities. Who said life was easy? It's not, if you screw up, you have to pay the price. ;)
 
That's alright, I see your post now.....


I'm sorry to say this but I do agree with what it say in the story , it's all about the rights of the child and doing the right thing, since the court has order the father's to pay child support even he didn't want to be part of the child's life, he could simply give up his rights, if he wanted to, but it does take two to have sex and both should be part of taking the responsibility for the child, since the mother is taking care of the child, but in order to do that she would need the father share of help, and by doing so, the father would need to pay child support in order to help rasing the child....

If the father didn't want to have any children at all, then he should know better by protecting himself so he wouldn't be in a situation where he would have to pay child support , afterall, it's all about doing the right thing, since the child is the innocent one here, and it should not matter who did what, or how it happened, or who fault it is, both parents should take the responsibility of their own actions...

I personally think the father should think more about his child than worry about how much money he lost from paying child support, it's just a lesson to be learn from the mistake he made by getting a woman pregnant in the first place....And afterall, its does take two to raise a child!
 
Cheri...

I think that having an abortion IS "running away from responsbility" of raising a baby. Why cant men have the same rights?

Making a baby is 2 way street. How is it TOTALLY the man's fault for not using condoms when the woman told him that she is on the pill? Ohhh, its never the women's fault....BLAME THE MAN! This kind of thinking is unfair. Women can be just as unsafe as the men.

I m not saying that it is right for a man to not take care of their children. I farking hate deatbeats. However, it is unfair that women can opt out by giving the child up for adoption or abortion while men cant. It is unfair that men are forced to provide child support whether they need it or not.

I do sound like I am a heartless bastard, but thats not true. I m just saying that women are not ALWAYS the victim. Women can be just as irresponsible as men.
 
Some women can be bad, but there is no reason to punish babies.
Babies are innocent.

So you gotta take care of the child.
 
hootster said:
Cheri...

I think that having an abortion IS "running away from responsbility" of raising a baby. Why cant men have the same rights?

Making a baby is 2 way street. How is it TOTALLY the man's fault for not using condoms when the woman told him that she is on the pill? Ohhh, its never the women's fault....BLAME THE MAN! This kind of thinking is unfair. Women can be just as unsafe as the men.

I m not saying that it is right for a man to not take care of their children. I farking hate deatbeats. However, it is unfair that women can opt out by giving the child up for adoption or abortion while men cant. It is unfair that men are forced to provide child support whether they need it or not.

I do sound like I am a heartless bastard, but thats not true. I m just saying that women are not ALWAYS the victim. Women can be just as irresponsible as men.

Not if 18 years old men have sex with 14 years olds, who is showing irresponsible here? I have witness this few months ago about this man, he should be throw in jail for having sex with a minor and got her preg. She made a painful decision by had an abortion to avoid of him and his family to take her baby away from her because she is minor.

How can u tell girls be so irresponsible when they were being duped by older men?
 
Jazzy, good point.....many teen prenancies are fathered by men in their TWENTIES?!?!?!
even he didn't want to be part of the child's life, he could simply give up his rights, if he wanted to, but it does take two to have sex and both should be part of taking the responsibility for the child,
I totally see your argument, but guys need to use protection anyway if they don't want a child. To me, this 25 year old guy is just whining..."Oh booohoohoo!" I got a girl pregnant...it wasn't MY fault!" Sure there are some rare cases where stuff like this happens and protection isn't used, but a lot of those guys who don't use protection are dangerous.....my mom sees SO many paitents who get themselves knocked up by guys like the one in the article....and they have fathered tons of babies, all by different mothers!
 
Hooster,

I understand your point, I agree that women can be irresponsible as men. But, while pills are popular methods of birth control, women still can get pregnant. It had happen but rare. There are risks involved just like condoms, He should be wearing a condom too even if she says she on the pill, That's his biggest mistake is that he trust her fully, There are going to be women out in the world that would lie about being on pills. Men have to use their brains and think about themselves, if they are not ready to have a baby, They should use something to protect themselves. ;)
 
This lawsuit won't succeed in the court system. It's all about the best interests of the child, irregardless of who is at 'fault' for 'birthing' the child in the first place, and assigning respective responsibilities to both parents.
 
if the man didnt want a child with her in the first place, then he should've used a fuckin' condom!

where the hell has his brain went? :roll:

He's just trying to get away from child support so he can have all the money to himself and not be part of the child's life either and act like nothing happened.

thats just plain pathetic.
 
I never thought I'd ever really agree on anything with conservative Christians. This lawsuit has changed that. I think abortion should be legal, but I think this lawsuit is absurd. Unless they can prove the woman actively premeditated all of these events, he should accept that he has to pay child support.
 
I know one woman, she admitted to me that she forced her man to cum in and caused her preggy twice!!! Thinking this would change his man. She was dead wrong! So, should this woman have the right to demand the child support? I don't think so! I know some women do abuses men as well as some men do abuses women too. I do not like when it comes to women taking advantage of system against innocent guys. You may not realize this, some men can be victim, but where is the protection for men? Almost ZERO while there is plenty for women... Is this fair? I don't think so!
 
This is not always the case! Some women DO cheat them, one way is to pick up that condom out of garbage and put in her pussy while her man fall asleep and not knowing it. Can it happen? SURE! you can bet on it... is it fair to do that to guy and chase him for child support? I don't think so!

Steel X said:
if the man didnt want a child with her in the first place, then he should've used a fuckin' condom!

where the hell has his brain went? :roll:

He's just trying to get away from child support so he can have all the money to himself and not be part of the child's life either and act like nothing happened.

thats just plain pathetic.
 
Eyeth said:
This lawsuit won't succeed in the court system. It's all about the best interests of the child, irregardless of who is at 'fault' for 'birthing' the child in the first place, and assigning respective responsibilities to both parents.

There is one theme in all the post. If man uses protection, then this lawsuit in not needed. What if the courts rule the same way? Would that mean if women does not make sure her man is useing protection, then she should not be aloud to have an abortion?
 
Let you know that protection isn't 100% effective! Some as low as 20% and as high as 99.99% The condom is around 80%, and that leaves 20% chance of oops! So whats point? Don't expect everything to be 100% every time.

smspell said:
There is one theme in all the post. If man uses protection, then this lawsuit in not needed. What if the courts rule the same way? Would that mean if women does not make sure her man is useing protection, then she should not be aloud to have an abortion?
 
Actually, this guy may have a point (in a way).

There is a court case I'm looking for but can't seem to locate it. It was very similar to this one. Woman told man that she was unable to have children. She gets pregnant. He sued her for Fraud and deceit....I'd like to find that case because I don't remember the outcome. If a woman lies to man to say she cannot concieve a child and she does, is it fraud and deception? While I don't think this guy stands a chance in court, I wouldn't be totally shocked if they sided in his favor.

Another case that is somewhat interesting (if you can stand the legal mumbo jumbo) is Perry vs Atkinson (1987). She became pregnant and he told her he wanted her to have an abortion. She refused at first. He persuaded her to have one by telling her that he wasn't ready for a baby now, but promised to impregnate her in 1 year when he would be ready....so she got the abortion. Of course, he backed out and never came through a year later. She then sued him for fraud and deceit.

The courts said they didn't want to touch it because it was such a private affair and felt the courts had no business deciding it.

In the end:

Perry proceeded to trial on her causes of action for intentional infliction of emotional distress. During trial, Atkinson, through his attorneys, offered to settle the emotional distress claims for $250,000 if Perry agreed to release Atkinson from liability for any other claims antedating the proposed settlement. Perry agreed, reserving her right to appeal the court's dismissal of her fraud and deceit cause of action. The parties also agreed that if Perry were successful on appeal, she would accept an additional $25,000 as her damages for the fraud and deceit cause of action and not take the case back through trial.

The full case (although boring) can be found --HERE--
 
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