Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery

[Bebonang]

I am thinking of the media report on the family and Jahi. I am kind of suspicious when a media reporter or more of the reporters might have put false reports on the hospital and Jahi's medical problem with surgery. Most newspapers and/or online reports on website like Facebook might deceived us being in the public that got interest in the case of Jahi and her parent who would not let her go in peace.

It is easy for us to fall and swallow over the news to believe in it that everything was true which might not be true at all. Most newspapers always cover them up in order to get more money and more readers who believe in this tales. Some may be true while others are not. There is more to the story which the family is lacking on saying that their daughter, Jahi, is fine and claimed that her daughter need to graduate from middle school. That is sad if the stories turn out to be false.

 

[Mewtilation]

Has anyone heard anything further on this or been able to find anything? I know she can't be doing well and OBVIOUSLY she hasn't woken up or they'd be like "IN YO' FACE DOCTORS" and they're not... :roll: I just want to know when this poor girls suffering can end... not that she's really suffering.... because she's not there.... but it's still disrespectful and wrong...

 

[Calvin]

The family has been keeping very low key and out of public eye due to some threats from publicity. Whether she is suffering or even the body gives out, I hope that they are not take advantage of the system out of the donations that is still pouring in. Would be nice that authorities check o them to see the status and making sure the family is doing all legally.

Has anyone heard anything further on this or been able to find anything? I know she can't be doing well and OBVIOUSLY she hasn't woken up or they'd be like "IN YO' FACE DOCTORS" and they're not... :roll: I just want to know when this poor girls suffering can end... not that she's really suffering.... because she's not there.... but it's still disrespectful and wrong...

 

[Mewtilation]

Yeah, I figured that's what they were doing... keeping a low profile.... I'm guessing when she does officially pass they're going to keep that on the down low too... they don't want to admit they were wrong.... :roll: So sad they can't think of the girl before themselves and just let her go.... I'm glad I'm over 18 and have that written out... don't you leave me on a machine like that! Poor girl... it's a sad situation all around for the girl and for the family, but sometimes you just have to know when to let go... they're just making it harder on themselves watching her deteriorate like that.

 

[Calvin]

Unfortunately, she doesn't have the power to make her own will because she's only 13 and the parents still make the decision. If you're 18, you could get a will done with the advise of a lawyer to ensure that you do not want to end up like her. I'd suppose the parents would try to fight it out in court to challenge the will and such. Remember Terri Schavio battle between her husband and her parents because she didn't have a will. The will has a power and can not be touched but only the person who makes the will can.

Yeah, I figured that's what they were doing... keeping a low profile.... I'm guessing when she does officially pass they're going to keep that on the down low too... they don't want to admit they were wrong.... :roll: So sad they can't think of the girl before themselves and just let her go.... I'm glad I'm over 18 and have that written out... don't you leave me on a machine like that! Poor girl... it's a sad situation all around for the girl and for the family, but sometimes you just have to know when to let go... they're just making it harder on themselves watching her deteriorate like that.

 

[Mewtilation]

Yeah, I live here I remember all that crap going down RIGHT here... oh lord that was a MESS! Thank god I have all that taken care of...

 

[Eater of Worlds]

I did some reading to familiarize myself with what happened, it's been a while. Turns out, the family was incredibly non-compliant after the surgery. People in the ICU (which is a big room with curtains, not individual rooms with doors) said that Jahi was laughing and talking after the surgery, which she's not supposed to do. They are the ones who saw her being fed food by her family, solid food, not liquids. The family has admitted that four family members suctioned Jahi...her mother, her stepfather, her grandmother and Jahi herself.

Yep, her grandmother, a basic level nurse (LPN, not RN) at another hospital was letting this kid suction herself with what is probably a suction tube with a hard tip. If you suction for more than 10 seconds you can cause vagal stimulation and that can trigger cardiac arrhythmia, which can then go into cardiac arrest. That is, the suction they did could have been too long and it irritated a nerve that runs over the top of the mouth (it's the same one that causes brain freeze when you eat cold foods*). Once this nerve was irritated, it could made the heart beat out of its normal rhythm and that can make the heart stop. All of this non-compliance could have easily killed the kid. I think that's a big reason why we haven't seen a malpractice suit yet. It may still come but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't.

*Brain freeze can be easily stopped by holding your tongue on the roof of your mouth where your hard palate becomes your soft palate. You just put some pressure on it, it warms up and your headache stops instantly.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

If you read the Trials and Tribulations update, they state that the video of the foot responding to ice had the embedded data altered. That is, the information that the video carries about when the video was made was changed. So that foot video is useless and it was yanked right away so people couldn't get a whole lot of information from it.

Trials & Tribulations: Jahi McMath

Many of the questions people are asking here (like how the foot can respond when the brain is dead) are answered in greater detail in the posts on her site. I think she's made a total of 10 posts on Jahi McMath, so there aren't a ton of pages to read.

 

[Calvin]

Very informative article. Doesn't surprise me that the family was not compliant with the Dr's orders. Obviously there was a lot of questions about the video the family posted then yanked. They should not be focusing on the feet alone... would have answered everyone's questions if they showed the whole body and if it's really Jahi they are trying to test her foot. I wonder if the family was asking for trouble and trying to get a malpractice claim against the hospital?

Children's Hospital Oakland (CHO) is one of the top ten largest hospital in the country with some of the best specialists. I've been in that hospital when I was a kid (I was hit in the head at the time). CHO is probably not the top ten best hospital around the nation but it's the closest hospital available for Children's ER. I appears Boston is the number one best hospital in the nation: Best Children's Hospitals 2014-15

If you read the Trials and Tribulations update, they state that the video of the foot responding to ice had the embedded data altered. That is, the information that the video carries about when the video was made was changed. So that foot video is useless and it was yanked right away so people couldn't get a whole lot of information from it.

Trials & Tribulations: Jahi McMath

Many of the questions people are asking here (like how the foot can respond when the brain is dead) are answered in greater detail in the posts on her site. I think she's made a total of 10 posts on Jahi McMath, so there aren't a ton of pages to read.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

There was a post a bit back about doctors being wrong when two patients came back from brain death and were doing well. I just want to make it clear that doctors were wrong in diagnosing them as brain dead, not wrong in that no one has ever come back from being brain dead and that brain dead is just as dead as when the heart stops.

As one doctor said to the family, probably in frustration at them not listening, Jahi is dead dead dead. They even did a radionuclide brain scan which shows no blood flow is going to her brain. No blood, no working brain. They've taken her off ventilation for 10 minutes and she never took a breath, that's the apnea test which she failed. Unfortunately, she has a strong young heart so who knows how long until it gives out.

And, here is why Zack Dunlap was declared dead by mistake. If you don't want to read the article, in short it's because the test was done too soon after injury (usually they give the brain at least 72 hours because of swelling, and it was done at only 36 hours) and it wasn't a good test, in that the test isn't very sensitive and other more sensitive tests should have been done as well. http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/brain-dead/

 

[Mewtilation]

There was a post a bit back about doctors being wrong when two patients came back from brain death and were doing well. I just want to make it clear that doctors were wrong in diagnosing them as brain dead, not wrong in that no one has ever come back from being brain dead and that brain dead is just as dead as when the heart stops.

As one doctor said to the family, probably in frustration at them not listening, Jahi is dead dead dead. They even did a radionuclide brain scan which shows no blood flow is going to her brain. No blood, no working brain. They've taken her off ventilation for 10 minutes and she never took a breath, that's the apnea test which she failed. Unfortunately, she has a strong young heart so who knows how long until it gives out.

And, here is why Zack Dunlap was declared dead by mistake. If you don't want to read the article, in short it's because the test was done too soon after injury (usually they give the brain at least 72 hours because of swelling, and it was done at only 36 hours) and it wasn't a good test, in that the test isn't very sensitive and other more sensitive tests should have been done as well. NeuroLogica Blog » Brain Dead

Oh no, I completely understand doing the tests too soon after traumatic brain injury. The thing with this little girl is that she was in this state for a week or more and they conducted these tests solid and there was no response, no blood flow and no breathing on her own and the family refused to believe it. There is no way in hell's toilet that this little girl is alive. Medically speaking, she is completely and utterly dead. It is sad and terrible... but she is gone. They need to realize it and let her go. She has failed every single test and this is one of those where she will not be coming back.

Yes, there are times where medical staff misdiagnose, it happens. However, if someone is actually brain dead, they're brain dead... period. Those people who came back were not actually brain dead... they were misdiagnosed as brain dead. The tests were preformed far too soon and doctors / medical staff far too hasty to slap a diagnosis. In many cases in trauma where there is significant brain damage / trauma / swelling we induce a medical coma. It is brought on similar to how you would be put under for an operation with anesthesia but of course not quite the same. You are put in a medical coma to reduce blood flow to the brain, circulation and everything else to keep swelling down and reduce trauma to the brain and prevent further damage. In cases of medically induced coma, you are brought out slowly and delicately but it pulls a hell of a number on your body... that's for sure. ( Michael Schumacher recently was just brought out of his medically induced coma ) I hear he is doing well by the way!

Regardless, if you're brain dead, you're brain dead... period. Misdiagnosis is a misdiagnosis.... you weren't brain dead, you didn't stop being brain dead you were just misdiagnosed as brain dead. This little girl, is brain dead... sadly. There is no function, no response and no blood flow... once the blood flow has stopped and it has been without it for that period of time.... sadly it's not coming back....

I agree, the family should have watched themselves. They shouldn't have allowed ANYONE to have done anything to her and should have stuck to the medical staffs instructions... an LPN is hardly anyone to be giving any sort of medical orders... Maybe all of that is why they are so stuck on this whole ordeal of keeping her alive...

 

[Calvin]

Wow!...

New Jersey doctor, who consulted in Jahi McMath case, suspended over sex with patient

 

[Mewtilation]

Oh.... my..... god..... that..... is SO...... SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!?!?!?!??! You're a frikking DOCTOR people TRUST YOU, YOU JERK!!!

 

[caz12]

"...Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.

"They said that she would have more energy, focus more, lose weight, and the urinating would stop," he said...."

I wonder if she should have had the surgery in the first place. That's a lot of symptoms to blame on tonsils.

I would think it miss quote and she not peeing organ failour.
I been staying at hospital for last 6weeks with my friend having operation and million to one thing happen an old college from years back was there with her son in the same scenario...I watched her going through hell doctors told her pull the plug donate organs go in peace and she unable to do it and as a mother I be the same

 

[KikLove]

Just let the poor girl go in peace...or what is left of her. The sad thing is they could have done more good by donating the girl's organs (if and when they were still in decent condition).

Ugh...how can people choose to be fund and let a body be that state? The girl's body is probably rotting from being on the stuff. I remember my uncle in Japan had cancer and weeks before passed away...he just had this smell about him. Maybe it was my imagination at the time but maybe it wasn't either. Ugh, I just can't imagine people trying to maintain a dead body.

Poor girl.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

In cases of medically induced coma, you are brought out slowly and delicately but it pulls a hell of a number on your body... that's for sure. ( Michael Schumacher recently was just brought out of his medically induced coma ) I hear he is doing well by the way!

His people are being very disingenuous about Schumacher. They are saying he's just out of a coma and has been transferred. He's actually been out of a coma since April, because that's when his manager said he had moments of eye opening and consciousness, which means he's out of the coma. They are announcing it like this and not correcting the public perception of what it's like to come out of a coma, which you see on TV shows and movies all the time. It doesn't happen like that, you pretty much never just wake up with full faculties. If he had really come out of the slightly conscious state he was in, we'd be hearing stuff like he's going to rehab, he's learning to walk or read or talk or eat and we've heard nothing like that. I just read an article today that said that he's not being moved because he's had improvements, but that he's physically stable and they described his state as the same as it was in April.

I have a friend (someone who I had just met and started to know, but my friends know her better) who had a brain injury and her prognosis was not good but it was better than Schumacher's, and she'll never recover enough to go back to work or live alone or have a life like she wanted. Given the information we have on Schumacher and how little he's come since the injury, I honestly doubt that he's going to recover to a significant degree. It's rare enough to recover from his level of injury and by just now coming out of a coma when the injury was so long ago doesn't bode well, even with him being kept in a medical coma. It's bad news that they had to keep him in a medical (non-natural) coma for so long, bad news that it took so long to come out of the natural coma.

I just don't think that we're going to see much improvement from how he is now. I would expect to see him one day dying of sepsis from a bed sore, unfortunately. As to why they aren't telling the public the real story, I can't say. Maybe the family is hoping good thoughts will help him and announcing "He's out of a coma! yay!" like it means what people think it means may be a way of keeping people rooting for him. Maybe his wife is not coming to terms with the situation and is putting out the information she thinks she's hearing. Who knows.

 

[Mewtilation]

His people are being very disingenuous about Schumacher. They are saying he's just out of a coma and has been transferred. He's actually been out of a coma since April, because that's when his manager said he had moments of eye opening and consciousness, which means he's out of the coma. They are announcing it like this and not correcting the public perception of what it's like to come out of a coma, which you see on TV shows and movies all the time. It doesn't happen like that, you pretty much never just wake up with full faculties. If he had really come out of the slightly conscious state he was in, we'd be hearing stuff like he's going to rehab, he's learning to walk or read or talk or eat and we've heard nothing like that. I just read an article today that said that he's not being moved because he's had improvements, but that he's physically stable and they described his state as the same as it was in April.

I have a friend (someone who I had just met and started to know, but my friends know her better) who had a brain injury and her prognosis was not good but it was better than Schumacher's, and she'll never recover enough to go back to work or live alone or have a life like she wanted. Given the information we have on Schumacher and how little he's come since the injury, I honestly doubt that he's going to recover to a significant degree. It's rare enough to recover from his level of injury and by just now coming out of a coma when the injury was so long ago doesn't bode well, even with him being kept in a medical coma. It's bad news that they had to keep him in a medical (non-natural) coma for so long, bad news that it took so long to come out of the natural coma.

I just don't think that we're going to see much improvement from how he is now. I would expect to see him one day dying of sepsis from a bed sore, unfortunately. As to why they aren't telling the public the real story, I can't say. Maybe the family is hoping good thoughts will help him and announcing "He's out of a coma! yay!" like it means what people think it means may be a way of keeping people rooting for him. Maybe his wife is not coming to terms with the situation and is putting out the information she thinks she's hearing. Who knows.

Yes, the prognosis for people in comas is never a yay he's out of a coma he's 100% cured whoo hoo everything is dandy. Of course it's not. You were sitting there motionless with your organs functioning at their lowest possible level for god knows how long and to expect them to up up and away function at their normal level is preposterous. There are many people who do make remarkable recoveries through comas, though. It takes many many years of therapy, mental and physical to get to a semi normal state of life. Many of those people yes, will never recover to a normal state of functioning as they once were... however there are definitely some people who are able to recover to a state to be okay. He was in peak physical health before hand, so that does give him an upper hand compared to someone who was out of shape... they may be taking that into consideration. I'm sure his therapy will be long and certainly will be incredibly difficult... I hope his support system is strong and he has all the help he needs. It is nice that he is out of that coma though. I have seen longer medically induced comas compared to his. As far as keeping certain things from the public and media, that is their choice as well. I know that I don't like sharing certain things with friends / acquaintances and I certainly wouldn't like to share those things with the world... especially sensitive things such as that.... it's hard enough to go through those things and having those drama hungry news dogs barking at your door for any tid bit of information they can get all up in your business just adds onto the stress. I feel terrible for families put through the stress of the media... I wouldn't tell them a damn thing either... They need their own time to spend with him, recover and heal.

 

[Mewtilation]

Just let the poor girl go in peace...or what is left of her. The sad thing is they could have done more good by donating the girl's organs (if and when they were still in decent condition).

Ugh...how can people choose to be fund and let a body be that state? The girl's body is probably rotting from being on the stuff. I remember my uncle in Japan had cancer and weeks before passed away...he just had this smell about him. Maybe it was my imagination at the time but maybe it wasn't either. Ugh, I just can't imagine people trying to maintain a dead body.

Poor girl.

No, you're correct. The body would not go into a full state of decomposition as you would if you were fully deceased and no organs functioning... The heart is still beating and therefore the blood is still flowing... that is what keeps the body "alive" and from decomposing to the full extent of what you would see someone who was deceased not on a ventilator. However, someone who is on a ventilator and brain dead, you will see their eyes are cloudy, their skin will go purple, the kidneys will shut down and they will slough off their intestinal lining... So, they do decompose, slightly. They do have a slight smell of death to them.... it's not pleasant, to say the least... but it's not full on death where you'd puke if you've ever smelled someone deceased. ( Talk about the worst smell of all time and a dead animal has NOTHING on a dead human I assure you ) As I said though, it's a slight smell that's definitely not right, but you can tell it's death... and it's their time to be let go. Having to have had "the talk" with many families myself, it's never easy... however, most families do decide to pull the plug... it's not common that people fight it like these cases we see. In Florida, you have to have two medical staff members call death in these cases and sign under the UADD law. Usually once the family sees a death certificate is going to be or has been issued and has a day or so to say goodbye and process everything, most do pull the plug. As I said, these cases of people holding on this tight are not too common thankfully.

 

[caz12]

I don't feel that breathing alone is a good criteria to continue giving a feeding tube (people who get food through a feeding tube get all their fluids that way too so there's no IV fluids to remove). That person you described was probably in what is called a minimally conscious state, not a persistant vegetative state (many who are minimally conscious are diagnosed as PVS). If my brain had liquified like Terri Schiavo's brain did, there's absolutely no coming back from that and I'd want the feeding tube gone. I wouldn't be happy living like that and I would also refuse to put my partner through that, emotionally and financially. I'd much prefer to have that plug pulled and have my friends and family process their grief and move on.

I just spent 6weeks at hospital,got friendly with two families who sons in same position..i knew one of the mothers we were nurse's together one in million chance meeting her....I know she would have said what you are all saying but when it happens to you it very different...the doctors said no hope but as parents you reach deep to find it,at some point I expect they will ask turn it off,who knows...to see parents in that position no words for it.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

I just spent 6weeks at hospital,got friendly with two families who sons in same position..i knew one of the mothers we were nurse's together one in million chance meeting her....I know she would have said what you are all saying but when it happens to you it very different...the doctors said no hope but as parents you reach deep to find it,at some point I expect they will ask turn it off,who knows...to see parents in that position no words for it.

I think that Jahi's mother is so deep in her delusion that her daughter will recover that she will never ask to turn off the ventilator. They will wait until her heart gives out. I would guess that the families you met don't plan to keep their sons on the ventilator indefinitely while they refuse to accept that their child is dead.

If the family could actually smell the smells coming from Jahi's lungs I wonder if they would change their mind. The ventilator is a closed system so they don't smell the "rot" from her lungs.

Another thought occurred to me. If you look at the photos that her mom has put out of her holding Jahi's hand or putting ice to her feet, her mother has long nails. That means one of two things. Her photos were either taken shortly after she died, or that her mom isn't involved in her day to day care. You can't have long nails like that and safely or effectively do care on a body in the situation Jahi's body is in. It makes me wonder just really how involved she is in her child's care (if she's doing what she said she was doing) or if they see the body is in bad shape and they just are showing old photos. I have no problem with nurses and aides doing the care, but it means the mom isn't doing the nitty gritty that she said she was. The uncle said that they would post a full body photo of her on March 28th but that obviously did not happen.