Dont Tell Me What To Believe....

[AJ]

u guys just dont understand. and im not good at teaching it. since im still learning. and i brought this all on myself.

 

[Reba]

u guys just dont understand. and im not good at teaching it. since im still learning. and i brought this all on myself.

Please don't feel bad.

Just use my questions to think a little more deeply about your beliefs. If you can't find satisfactory answers, there is a reason.

...and there is an answer.

 

[AJ]

Please don't feel bad.

Just use my questions to think a little more deeply about your beliefs. If you can't find satisfactory answers, there is a reason.

...and there is an answer.

yeah i do feel bad. this really sucks. i only have one other person to talk to about this. only one other person who believes in what i believe. my religion has a bible it even has a church.

for 23 years i only followed christianity because i did not want to be outcasted. and thats what a lot of christians do. if someone isn't a full blown christian, they outcast that person. and i wanted to fit in so i tried my damndest to understand that shit. i had to try and understand why if i killed myself that i would go to hell....why....if i wanted to be with god, god would say no i hate u, ur going to hell. that never made sense to me.

23 years of hell on earth for me. because i never wanted to live. i wanted to kill myself, but if i did i would go to hell and i would never see my mom. so either i stayed here in hell or i went to hell. for 23 years i felt this way.

and then i find this religion that makes me happy...and i dont want to kill myself anymore because of this religion. and apparently its wrong. i dont worship satan...but apparantley not believin in satan is just as worse as worshiping him.

and the Gnostic religion dates back to Jesus. its not a New Age thing. its been around forever. just no one talks about it because THIS happens. but im the idiot that speaks up about it because im proud of it. and i get Slammed. and THATS why gnostics dont talk about it, except to people who are interested in it. and i keep making this stupid mistake about talking about it. and i dont want to talk about it anymore.

i deserve what i just got. i should have kept my mouth shut

 

[RedFox]

Satan is your god if you believe in anything other than the true God.

This is a way to put down other belief systems as false, wrong and dangerous if they are not the same as whatever versions of the Christian belief system includes this statement. Those versions of Christianity may apply this statement to other religions and other versions of Christianity like Gnostic Christianity. It is to prevent loss of people to other belief systems and nonbelief.

Since it is applied to all other belief systems, it is applied to belief systems that don't have Satan and belief systems that are structured differently from Christianity. This sort of Christianity teaches that good will win over evil one day. There are other belief systems that have a balance between opposite forces such as yin and yang that cannot exist without each other. This kind of Christianity holds that Satan is absolutely evil and will be defeated forever in the future. Since yin and yang are not Christian, the kind of Christianity being considered here would claim that believers in yin and yang have Satan as their absolutely evil god who is misleading them. I see that as the same kind of thing as putting words into others' mouths is.

What about people who do not have beliefs? They don't believe in gods and beings like Satan. Saying that if they're not Christian, they have Satan as their god goes against their position of not believing. It's making false claims about other people for the benefit of one's own belief system to scare people away from examining other beliefs and what it would be like to not believe.

The idea of saying that people that don't share one's belief system have Satan as their god is part of the collection of ideas that make up the versions of the Christian belief system being considered here. It's one of the ideas that has an internal maintenance function to keep people within the belief system. It might even be used in attempts to scare people into the belief system. The people with the belief system would have a harder time seeing this idea for what it is because they see things from inside the belief system. It traps the believers into a box by coloring their view of other belief systems and nonbelief.

It is not surprising that there are such beliefs like this one about Satan being the god of disagreers. Belief systems that have characteristics that help them to survive by doing things like holding onto members and collecting new members are the ones that are more likely to survive. Christianity has beliefs such as the Satan one to help it to survive in a world with other belief systems that compete for mindshare.

There are Christians who think of atheism as a religion. It is not one because it is about if there is belief or not in gods, not an entire system of beliefs accepted without question like the various versions of Christianity are. Considering atheism to be a religion seems to make it easier for those Christians to apply the above statement to say that Satan is the god of nonbelievers. Those people are thinking inside the box and project their desire to believe onto everybody else, resulting in them thinking that everybody else has to believe in something. Them being so boxed in doesn't allow them the flexiablity to think about what it would be like to not believe in any of those beings.

Some Christians might say that nonbelievers might think that they don't believe in any such beings when Satan is really tricking them and controlling them. The clincher here is evidence. The Christians had brought forth no evidence that withstands examination. They might claim that faith is enough for such things, but equally valid claims could be made that another god, such as saying that Odin is the True God and that Loki is the god of people who don't agree with that or saying that Amun-Ra is the True God and that Set is the god of disagreers. Without evidence no such claims about gods, Satan or any other such being should be given serious weight because they have equal validity. Claiming that Satan fooled me into making such statements is as valid as me claiming that Loki or Set made the Christians say that Satan is the god of others.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

AJ, I can understand where you come from.

I have 2 bibles with me and beleive God and Jesus until I learn from forums here.... mmmmhhhhhhh They claimed that my bible are wrong, their bibles are true....

That's how I began to realize that we have different bibles, we beleive to is from authors... mmmmmhhhh Honestly I has to say open that I began to doubt to beleive Evolution now, not bible anymore since I learn from forum here.

All what I say is I beleive God and Jesus in my heart... period...

It's my children who influence on me about Evolution... I notice more Germans beleive Evolution... My children learn from reglious teacher and history teacher (including earth.... cavemen, dinosour... etc.)... It give my children's decision to beleive Bible or Evolution... They choose to beleive Evolution because there're proofs but bible? I respect their belief. My hubby also beleive Evolution, too. Yes, they beleive Jesus exist but the people worship him as "King of Isarel or Jew" - God...

 

[Reba]

...
Since it is applied to all other belief systems, it is applied to belief systems that don't have Satan and belief systems that are structured differently from Christianity. ..

It isn't necessary to have Satan in one's belief system in order for him to still be the god that system.

Just because a system or religion doesn't recognize Satan, he doesn't disappear. In fact, Satan prefers that people don't recognize for what he is. He can accomplish his work better in murky darkness, hidden and unnamed.

God is the opposite. God is light. God wants everyone to know Him personally.

What about people who do not have beliefs?

Everyone believes in something, even if it means believing in self, philosophy, or scientific reason; it doesn't have to be a formal religion.

 

[Reba]

...It's my children who influence on me about Evolution... I notice more Germans beleive Evolution... My children learn from reglious teacher and history teacher (including earth.... cavemen, dinosour... etc.)... It give my children's decision to beleive Bible or Evolution... They choose to beleive Evolution because there're proofs but bible? I respect their belief. My hubby also beleive Evolution, too. Yes, they beleive Jesus exist but the people worship him as "King of Isarel or Jew" - God...

Many groups support evolution because they think that supports their belief that some racial groups are superior to others. It is popular for some groups to use evolution to "prove" that whiter people are physically and mentally superior to darker people. That is, evolution is a popular concept for racists because they claim that Negro and Jewish races are not as fully "evolved" as white and/or "Aryan" races.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Many groups support evolution because they think that supports their belief that some racial groups are superior to others. It is popular for some groups to use evolution to "prove" that whiter people are physically and mentally superior to darker people. That is, evolution is a popular concept for racists because they claim that Negro and Jewish races are not as fully "evolved" as white and/or "Aryan" races.

Forgive me for saying this, but not all Christians who support a form of evolution do so for any kind of racial or other hateful motivation...probably not even a majority. Nor does it mean diminishing God. For me there never was the kind of either/or decision some people describe, once I put things together at about five years old (my parents had always given me both science and religious books, in a very matter of fact way). I think He used the processes we see as His tools to create this world and it's no less glorious that way...in fact, the intricacy, the number of tiny factors that would have to be tweaked this way and that is truly awesome to me. As for the Biblical account of Creation, I say it was the best way to make sense of something on that scale for such an ancient people. And the lesson it teaches, that God's hand was (and still is) in all of this remains applicable today.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Many groups support evolution because they think that supports their belief that some racial groups are superior to others. It is popular for some groups to use evolution to "prove" that whiter people are physically and mentally superior to darker people. That is, evolution is a popular concept for racists because they claim that Negro and Jewish races are not as fully "evolved" as white and/or "Aryan" races.

It's scentist who discover evolution and began to beleive thr the proof, that's all. It's nothing do with racial groups, etc. I will ask my children again about this.

As far as I know that history teacher teach my children in postive way about earth etc... There're no negative shown about evolution or bible.

 

[Reba]

It's scentist who discover evolution and began to beleive thr the proof, that's all. It's nothing do with racial groups, etc. I will ask my children again about this.

As far as I know that history teacher teach my children in postive way about earth etc... There're no negative shown about evolution or bible.

Don't ask your children; they only know what the teachers tell them. The teachers only know what they were taught at teacher college.

Do some research yourself. You will find the nasty truth about eugenics, the history of Planned Parenthood, Nazi genectic research and classifications, etc. Read what white supremist groups say about race origins.

 

[RedFox]

It isn't necessary to have Satan in one's belief system in order for him to still be the god that system.

Just because a system or religion doesn't recognize Satan, he doesn't disappear. In fact, Satan prefers that people don't recognize for what he is. He can accomplish his work better in murky darkness, hidden and unnamed.

God is the opposite. God is light. God wants everyone to know Him personally.

The claim that Satan is the god of people who are not proper Christians has equal validity as other such claims by other belief systems. It is as valid as someone saying that Angra Mainyu is the god of those who do not believe in Ahura Mazda as the True God. Other religions also say that they are the right ones and other ones are wrong.

What would distinguish between them is evidence for claims by the religions that are testable, independantly verifiable and repeatable. That would make sure that tests for if there are such beings would not be influenced by the beliefs.

Saying that the Christian god is not to be tested is another meme in the Christian meme complex to discourage the hosts from questioning the belief system.

Speaking of Satan ruling over people with different belief systems, without giving good evidence that it's really Satan and not some other being or no being, is speaking from inside the Christian meme complex and it is not being very objective.

Using the Satan statement to scare people into one's belief system is also not too nice because it's putting emotional pressure on them and making them not think critically. That's what the title of this thread can mean. The key is to show, not tell. Show evidence that can stand up to the standards I described above to ensure that Christians' beliefs don't distort things in favor of the belief system.

Everyone believes in something, even if it means believing in self, philosophy, or scientific reason; it doesn't have to be a formal religion.

Oh, I was thinking of religious beliefs. I've seen meanings of "belief" to mean things accepted on faith only. With your general meaning, I'll need to say "religious beliefs."

 

[RedFox]

Don't ask your children; they only know what the teachers tell them. The teachers only know what they were taught at teacher college.

Do some research yourself. You will find the nasty truth about eugenics, the history of Planned Parenthood, Nazi genectic research and classifications, etc. Read what white supremist groups say about race origins.

I learned about that stuff in my Science, Technology and Values class. The fault for those things lies with the people who did them, not the concepts they abused. Those people had agendas that involved labelling other people as inferior. The scientists who studied evolution didn't have that kind of plan.

It's like saying that it's people who use the guns who are to blame, not the guns themselves. The people who made the guns didn't plan on using them to kill people.

Saying that the children and the teachers only know what others tell them assumes that they do not think critically, compare what different people say and stop learning once they leave the classroom or gradulate.

 

[GodDoesNotHate]

AJ,

Well, if Hell and Satan don't exist, then how come there's always a war ? Why hate is still around ? How about killin' ? It wasn't God's way of makin' people to do it. It wasn't God's Idea to create somethin' like this for other people to learn. He never taught them to do that. God is always good ! I don't think it is a good idea to start arguin' or fightin' over this silly issue since you still have your own choices. No body could take that choices from you. You have your own life you can chose what ever you want and that is your decision to make for yourself. Why makin' things soo hard on yourself, hmm ?

NO my friend the QUESTIONS IS...Why is there enough religion to incite war, but not enough religion to instill tolerance? a few of my favorite sayings below.

Don't analyze my beliefs. And I won't pick out the flaws in yours.
You tell me that I sin, You say I'm bound to hell, So once judgment condemns you, I shall see you there. my favorite!

"I do not see any sin in the world, but I see a great deal of ignorance." --George Sand

"Remember the truth is not for everyone - most people just do not want to know." --Robert Morningsky

"Knowledge is strength, ignorance does not grant you any immunity." --Purple Crow

 

[GodDoesNotHate]

On the other hand, I do somewhat undy what AJ is saying. It's kind of like those people who go around and distrubuate tracts and fliers on HOW THEIR BELIEF is the ONLY WAY to SALVATION!!!!
Some people here are very "holier then thou" about their beliefs. While I admire the intensity of their beliefs, one thing that turns me off, is the "holier then thou" attitude that they have.

RIGHT ON!!!!!

 

[GodDoesNotHate]

Ah Ok, If Jesus came from God and so did we, Why is Jesus without sins and we are with sins?

he just TOLD you that jesus was more spiritual more advanced. there ARE people like that u know. mother tressa for example was another high very advanced spiritual being.

 

[GodDoesNotHate]

I don't believe in Sylvia Browne. She is psychic. Psychic don't come from God. Sorry to say.

whoa u obvisouly dont read thebible dude. there are psychic people in the bible quiet a few actually. remember the dude who interp the kings dreams?

 

[Mookie]

whoa u obvisouly dont read thebible dude. there are psychic people in the bible quiet a few actually. remember the dude who interp the kings dreams?

You mean the dude who interp the kings dreams in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat It was a great program that I watched in Humantics course.

Maybe I am wrong about a dude...

 

[Cheri]

he just TOLD you that jesus was more spiritual more advanced. there ARE people like that u know. mother tressa for example was another high very advanced spiritual being.

He said Jesus is his brother, So if Jesus is his brother, how come AJ is a sinner and Jesus is not? They cannot be brothers, Jesus is God. We bow down to Jesus, not other Gods or spiritual people. Thank-you!

 

[AJ]

He said Jesus is his brother, So if Jesus is his brother, how come AJ is a sinner and Jesus is not? They cannot be brothers, Jesus is God. We bow down to Jesus, not other Gods or spiritual people. Thank-you!

im not a sinner. and jesus and god are two different..."people"

 

[GodDoesNotHate]

WTF do you mean by that? Not all GLBers are nonbelievers.....there are PLENTY who consider themselves Christians!
Mom of two, so psychic abilty is of Satan? Is Joseph in the Bible (as in the guy who had the coat of many colors) evil? He had the gift of second sight!

Right on! shows some people dont know what they talking abt. they just believe something because it was handed down to them and said BELIEVE OR BE CASTED INTO A LAKE OF FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! some father he is. would u do that to ur kid? throw him into the furnence because he made a mistake? Im not g ay but im all for gay rights and i believe god loves us all ENDLESSLY!