Do you treat human and animal equal?

[Liebling:-)))]

That's called discrimination. That's against human rights.

That's exact example what I tried to explain in my previous post.

"They" who? Who voted against Hillary Clinton "because she is a woman"?

Sexism

Is killing animals for food against their "rights"?

I don't raise and kill animal for foods and pleasure including sport hunting. Leave experts who own license as long as they follow the law. Accord European law, if they want to kill animal for foods then do that as fast as painless as possible. If anyone who raise animals for food must be treated well.

Is sterilizing an animal without consent against their "rights"?

For those purpose of birth control since they don't have sex protection, don't they?

I prefer to choose to neuter them to protect from euthanasia or abuse puppies, kitten etc. or put them shelter.

Is using a dog for rescue or police work against its "rights"?

Is using a dog or dolphin for defense work against their "rights"?

As long as they treat animals decently then is okay. I do not against when the owners send their dogs to school to train well behave like what the parents send their children to secure home for well behave.

I see nothing wrong when the owner or police use dogs as watchdogs to watch their property or whatever.

I do not see any abuse on dolphins as long as they enjoy to play with humans. That's what you mean?

But for circus is a different story.

Is killing vermin that eat crops against their "rights"?

I'm not sure about your question because there are different types of vermin... Is those insects, you referring to? If yes, but it doesn't relate this thread here. Is those animals, you referring to with those question. If yes, could you please kind to put list of animal types what you consider them as vermin?

Just asking.

No problem.

Does that respect include cows, chickens, turkeys, pigs, lambs, fish, lobster, etc.?

Oh yes! Do you expect me abuse them, make fun of them, make them suffer, or what? For your information, I don't violate Animal Right and Animal Welfare but respect what they are.

For your reminder: Can you please leave fish, lobster, insects, etc out of this thread here because they are not relate to animal group.

I'm glad that there are laws against animal cruelty and neglect. I wish every person would be responsible in taking care of their animals.

But I don't expect animals and humans to be treated with the equal respect.

I beleive that animal deserve our respect if you agree to keep them as pet then they deserve our company, socialize, play, loving, affectionate, etc, not just ignore their attention that's because they are animal?

I didn't mention anything about psychology.

Yes I know you don't support psychology but I do. From your posts that you don't focus animal's feeling, mind and suffering to compare human but use material things etc to compare between human and animal. I compare human and animal's feeling, mind and suffering because they are psychological beings. I do not need to compare the materials, foods, etc between human and animal because I know they are not equal/same.

I'm just asking, if "they have the same feeling, suffering and pain as us", then should we eat them?

Accord German law: The animals should be killed within few seconds or real fast after slaughter with no suffer pain.

I don't eat meats where the sport hunters killed animals for fun because they are SUFFER!...

If an animal is proven dangerous to people or other animals, then normally it has to be euthanized. It can't be trusted to be around people or other animals, and is a danger to others. That's sad but it's the safest way to protect the lives of others.

Okay, what about human to animal then? (see link, I provided in my previous post)

You said you treat your children and pets as equal family members. So the animals are equal to the kids, and the kids are equal to the animals.

I consider as family member when anyone including animals who lives in my house. I have loving relationships with them because children and animals need my company, socializing, play, funny, attention, affection, etc. Should I treat animals worthless that's because they are animal? Should I against Animal Welfare Right to abuse and treat my pets horrible that's because they are animal? Again, I know that animal and human use something differently but they still have my loving attention. Animal-watching is a wonderful feeling just like people-watching. That's how I educate my children to kind and respect animals... I really has no idea why you said that I treat children as an animal that's because I consider animal as my family member since they live in my house. :roll:

It look like that you didn't show much compassion towards animals, don't you?

I never said that I chose to not educate my child to be good and kind to animals. I taught my daughter to be kind to animals thru discussion and by example. While growing up, my daughter saw the examples of Hubby and me being kind to our pets, and to stray animals. When she was a little girl, she and I did volunteer work for the local animal shelter. She saw me many times rescue stray or hurt animals. She saw me protect bird nests from predators, and move turtles off the road. I really don't know how you got the idea that our family doesn't cherish animals.

Well, accord your posts here that you don't support Animal Welfare Right much and don't show your feeling for animals much. I'm surprised after read your description post here about your daughter and animal etc but you use material things to compare between animals and humans here without focus animal's feeling. You don't beleive in treat animal equal with respect that's because they are animal.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't believe that human and animal are equal like Lieblin' believe.

Why have I repeat those word to you then? I NEVER said that human and animal are equal.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That word " fan " is different. It doesn't mean that Reba is a fan of death penalty. It's somethin' else.... a different word. Fan means celebratin' somethin'. Reba is NOT celebratin' of death penalty. Okay ?

I will let Reba to explain this to you in her own words.

Ooohhhh yesssss, I have seen on TV that the people scream and exciting outside of prison after death penatly. I call it "death penalty fan".

 

[Foxrac]

Why have I repeat those word to you then? I NEVER said that human and animal are equal.

Ouch, she can't read your post so carefully.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I disagree. Even if we claim to treat a family member and a family pet "equally," family pets still get to be treated differently. It is quite a contradictiory statement. We leave pets behind at home if we go out to movies, restaurants, etc... Family pets sometimes get left behind when people go on vacations, and caretakers are assigned to take care of the pets. So, we still treat pets differently than our family members even if we profess to treat them both equally.

Yes I aware that human and animal are not equal/same. I am trying to explain the examples about "treat.......... with respect".

Example: We don't throw them to animal shelter for our pleasure (long vacation, etc.) because they doesn't deserve to suffer like this and thought we don't want them. They should stay in home and being take care of my neighbor because they deserve to feel being comfortable.

We always make sure that family pet get something that they won't boring before we leave them at home for all the day outing trip or whatever.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Now you know why my hair is spiky; it's because these posts make me pull at my hair in frustration. Aaaarrrgggghhh!!!

Good Venting.

I'll say it again ('tho I think no one is paying attention)--the burning house is irrelevant to the issue. I just used that as an example. It could be any situation--a drowning, a wreck, a lack of water, limited money, limited time, WHATEVER. Quit focusing on the scenario and focus on the real question. The real question is, what is more important to you--a pet animal, or a human child.

*Sigh* Why the people often say that all human beings are more valuable than any animals. To my POV, that the people who says this is their own selfish interests.

This isn't a thread about fire safety or rescue training; please try to focus.

Yes I do but I rather to focus their feeling and how to rescue trainings and help them than worry to pick which value they are that's because they are different.

The question is: do you treat humans and animals equally?

Yes

Do you use equal resources of time, money, and energy for animals and humans?

Yes

Do you put equal value on the life of an animal and the life of a human?

Yes, because I am doing to save their suffering.

Would you honestly sacrifice the well being of a human for an animal?

No

The example of a burning house was to prove that you can't value an animal and a human equally. The example has nothing (nada, zero, zip) to do with every possible combination of numbers of people and animals, rescue training, house size, fire prevention and drills, firemen, blah, blah, blah.

I guess the real answer to my question is, that ADers would be too busy debating all the details of the situation to have enough time to rescue anyone. :roll:

Again, I rather to do something to rescue them than worry which value they are.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

wow, I just found those link from websites...

Unbeleivable...

Warning, it's not nice pictures.
Downers

Is it okay to treat animals like this?


Without Animal Rights, they would carry on do like that to animals...

 

[Reba]

wow :jaw:

Where is your heart?

What?! What on earth (or Twilight Zone) are you talking about?????

 

[Reba]

My question was:

"They" who? Who voted against Hillary Clinton "because she is a woman"?

Your reply was:
Sexism

"Sexism" is not a person. I asked you, WHO voted against Hillary just because she is a woman. What group of people said that they voted against Hillary just because she is a woman. Or did you just make that up?

I don't raise and kill animal for foods and pleasure including sport hunting. Leave experts who own license as long as they follow the law. Accord European law, if they want to kill animal for foods then do that as fast as painless as possible. If anyone who raise animals for food must be treated well.

I didn't ask if you kill animals. I asked if you eat them.

You keep dancing around my question. Do you or do you not eat animal flesh? Yes or No.

It doesn't matter who kills them; the animal is still dead.

Do you eat meat?

As long as they treat animals decently then is okay. I do not against when the owners send their dogs to school to train well behave like what the parents send their children to secure home for well behave.

I see nothing wrong when the owner or police use dogs as watchdogs to watch their property or whatever.

I do not see any abuse on dolphins as long as they enjoy to play with humans. That's what you mean?

But for circus is a different story.

How is a circus different? If they take care of the animals, how is the circus different from police dogs, military dolphins, draft horses, personal care service monkeys, etc.? Either we should allow all use of animals or no use of animals, to be consistent.

I'm not sure about your question because there are different types of vermin... Is those insects, you referring to? If yes, but it doesn't relate this thread here. Is those animals, you referring to with those question. If yes, could you please kind to put list of animal types what you consider them as vermin?

Mostly rodents. Mice and rats that eat corn and grain crops, for example.

Oh yes! Do you expect me abuse them, make fun of them, make them suffer, or what? For your information, I don't violate Animal Right and Animal Welfare but respect what they are.

I'm sure they appreciate that when you eat them. I guess a cow doesn't mind being slaughtered as long as no one laughs at her during the process.

For your reminder: Can you please leave fish, lobster, insects, etc out of this thread here because they are not relate to animal group.

Whoa, wait a minute. You want to include mankind in with the animals but you also want to remove fish, lobsters, and insects from the animal kingdom? This is new "science" to me. When did the other critters get kicked out of the animal kingdom? Man, first Pluto is kicked out of the planets group, now critters are kicked out of the animal group. What next?!

Yes I know you don't support psychology but I do. From your posts that you don't focus animal's feeling, mind and suffering to compare human but use material things etc to compare between human and animal. I compare human and animal's feeling, mind and suffering because they are psychological beings. I do not need to compare the materials, foods, etc between human and animal because I know they are not equal/same.

I never said that I don't "support" psychology. Psychology has it's place. But I never brought it up in this thread. I really don't know where you got the idea that I don't care about animals' feelings or sufferings. I never said that, and my actions prove just the opposite. Just because I say animals and humans are not the same doesn't mean animals are worthless to me.

Accord German law: The animals should be killed within few seconds or real fast after slaughter with no suffer pain.

I don't eat meats where the sport hunters killed animals for fun because they are SUFFER!...

I guess you have never visited a commercial slaughter house. Either that, or you are able "psychologically" to rationalize that killing animals is OK if it is done with government approval for your benefit.

What if the licensed butchers enjoyed slaughtering and grinding up your sausage? Would that make a difference? Would you quit eating meat?

Do you really believe that a cow that is "processed" at a licensed slaughter house actually suffers less than a deer that is shot by a licensed hunter? At least the deer lived his years free in the woods. How did that beef cow live before it was killed?

Think about that before answering.

Okay, what about human to animal then? (see link, I provided in my previous post)

If you mean should humans be punished for being cruel to animals, then my answer is yes. If you mean should humans be punished for being cruel to other humans, then my answer is yes.

I consider as family member when anyone including animals who lives in my house. I have loving relationships with them because children and animals need my company, socializing, play, funny, attention, affection, etc. Should I treat animals worthless that's because they are animal? Should I against Animal Welfare Right to abuse and treat my pets horrible that's because they are animal?

No, you shouldn't, and I never even suggested that you should.

...It look like that you didn't show much compassion towards animals, don't you?

Yeah, right. Obviously you don't read all my posts, or you choose not to believe me, so just believe whatever you want to.

Well, accord your posts here that you don't support Animal Welfare Right much and don't show your feeling for animals much.

I'll tell you again that I support animal welfare, and I do show my feelings for animals, but it doesn't do any good because you totally ignore me when I state that in my posts, over and over again.

I'm surprised after read your description post here about your daughter and animal etc but you use material things to compare between animals and humans here without focus animal's feeling. You don't beleive in treat animal equal with respect that's because they are animal.

Well, I guess that's the kind of response I should expect from a non-judgmental open-minded person.

My daughter (who was a vegetarian during her teen years and for several years after) and her sons show me how they learned their love for animals from me and Hubby. They follow our example and learn about animals, rescue them, and take care of them. My family is more important to me than your opinion.

 

[Reba]

Ooohhhh yesssss, I have seen on TV that the people scream and exciting outside of prison after death penatly. I call it "death penalty fan".

You will never see me doing that.

BTW, what you are doing is called stereotyping, and that is a judgmental trait.

 

[Reba]

...Reba's hair is spiked again, wow...

Yeah, but I'm running out of hairs to pull.

 

[Maria]

Why have I repeat those word to you then? I NEVER said that human and animal are equal.

Yes, you BELIEVE that human and animal are treated EQUAL.

I vote yes.

I treat human and animal equal.

See above what you wrote.

I have 4 cats who lives with us. We treat 4 cats as our own children (my 2children and 2 grandchildren).

We treat them on their birthdays, Easter and Christmas as the same as we treat our both sons.

Human and animals have protection rights against abuse, cruelty, etc.

Human and animals receive euthanasia equal to save their suffer.

Human and animals need medical to save their life.

 

[Maria]

Ouch, she can't read your post so carefully.

Ohh, yes I CAN read. That's what she BELIEVES they are treated equal. Read my post what I show her that she wrote.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ohh, yes I CAN read. That's what she BELIEVES they are treated equal. Read my post what I show her that she wrote.

I show you what you typed.

Originally Posted by Maria


I don't believe that human and animal are equal like Lieblin' believe.

I said that I TREAT animal and human equal, not animal and human are equal. This is a difference.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

My question was:

"They" who? Who voted against Hillary Clinton "because she is a woman"?

Your reply was:
Sexism

"Sexism" is not a person. I asked you, WHO voted against Hillary just because she is a woman. What group of people said that they voted against Hillary just because she is a woman. Or did you just make that up?

Huh? I use it as an example in my previous post. Should I make list of names? If you think I make it up then I would suggest you to search the threads yourself then you will see yourself.

I didn't ask if you kill animals. I asked if you eat them.

You keep dancing around my question. Do you or do you not eat animal flesh? Yes or No.

wow I wasn´t realized that my post is harm.

I thought my answer is not hard. *shrug*

That´s what you want a simple answer from me... Okay, you get it. My answer is Yes.

It doesn't matter who kills them; the animal is still dead.

Perhap for you but not for me. I want to make sure that they are dead with NO suffer and pain.

Do you eat meat?

Yes, I only eat 4 different meats. (Turkey, chicken, pork and beef).

How is a circus different?

Is it okay to whip or hitting with stick animal to dance for us?

If they take care of the animals, how is the circus different from police dogs, military dolphins, draft horses, personal care service monkeys, etc.? Either we should allow all use of animals or no use of animals, to be consistent.

military dolphins? I only know that there´re dolphin therapy which is good connection between dolphins and humans. Can you care to explain me why you see it different?

police dogs are not abuse by police or what. As long as they are being treat decently. I do not see anything wrong to train dogs to be behave. *shrug* Can you care to explain me why you see it different?

I do not support horse draft issues as long as they take care is okay. *shrug*

Personal care service monkeys? What is this?

I am against all animal testing.

Mostly rodents. Mice and rats that eat corn and grain crops, for example.

Ahhh, No.

I'm sure they appreciate that when you eat them. I guess a cow doesn't mind being slaughtered as long as no one laughs at her during the process.

:roll:

Whoa, wait a minute. You want to include mankind in with the animals but you also want to remove fish, lobsters, and insects from the animal kingdom? This is new "science" to me. When did the other critters get kicked out of the animal kingdom? Man, first Pluto is kicked out of the planets group, now critters are kicked out of the animal group. What next?!

I do not against anything including fishes, etc but this thread is about animal who has 4 legs and human.

If you want to talk about fishes, insects, spiders etc who have more than 4 legs then create a new thread.

I never said that I don't "support" psychology. Psychology has it's place. But I never brought it up in this thread. I really don't know where you got the idea that I don't care about animals' feelings or sufferings. I never said that, and my actions prove just the opposite. Just because I say animals and humans are not the same doesn't mean animals are worthless to me.

I know you doesn´t brought those word "psychology" but me. Please re-read my previous post...
I think it’s ridiculous to use “material”, foods, rights etc as an example to compare animals and humans because they are not psychological beings. Yes they live different and eat different foods etc but they have same feeling, suffering and pain as us. They deserve our respect that animal should not be treat worthless.

I guess you have never visited a commercial slaughter house. Either that, or you are able "psychologically" to rationalize that killing animals is OK if it is done with government approval for your benefit.

What if the licensed butchers enjoyed slaughtering and grinding up your sausage? Would that make a difference? Would you quit eating meat?

Do you really believe that a cow that is "processed" at a licensed slaughter house actually suffers less than a deer that is shot by a licensed hunter? At least the deer lived his years free in the woods. How did that beef cow live before it was killed?

Think about that before answering.

Whatever... :roll: I has a friend who work at slaughter house and told me that there are rules, they have to follow. That´s how I learn from him.

If you mean should humans be punished for being cruel to animals, then my answer is yes. If you mean should humans be punished for being cruel to other humans, then my answer is yes.

Thank you for answer but... but... what about death penalty? Is it death penatly for humans who kills animal illegal?

No, you shouldn't, and I never even suggested that you should.

Exactly that´s why I treat animal equal with respect.

Yeah, right. Obviously you don't read all my posts, or you choose not to believe me, so just believe whatever you want to.

I said the same thing about you as well. You choose to beleive that I treat my children as an animal in first place that´s because I consider animal who live in my house as my family. You choose to ignore part of my previous post that I educate my children to respect animal either.

I'll tell you again that I support animal welfare, and I do show my feelings for animals, but it doesn't do any good because you totally ignore me when I state that in my posts, over and over again.

You ignored my posts either how and what I expose my children positive about animals in my previous posts either.
Yes I do know that you support animal welfare and against animal cruelty etc but from those posts here that you didn´t show your feeling for animals much because they are different as humans.

Well, I guess that's the kind of response I should expect from a non-judgmental open-minded person.

wow! I said the same thing about you as well. I talked about my children and animals in my previous post but you choose to ignore it and accuss me to treat my children as an animal... *shake my head*

My daughter (who was a vegetarian during her teen years and for several years after) and her sons show me how they learned their love for animals from me and Hubby. They follow our example and learn about animals, rescue them, and take care of them.

Okay, next time please use your common sense instead of accuss me to treat my children as an animal as I described you what and how I educated my children to respect animals in my previous post like what you described about your daughter and grandsons about here. Now see yourself, I know you would not like when I said something back to you or tell you that you treat your daughter and grandson as an animal. All what I hear from you is I treat my children as an animal because I consider animals who live in my house as my family, no even word about my son and 2 sleeping cats.

My family is more important to me than your opinion.

Me, too. Everyone who lives in my house is my family. I don´t care if you still beleive that I treat my children as an animal or whatever.

 

[Maria]

I show you what you typed.



I said that I TREAT animal and human equal, not animal and human are equal. This is a difference.

Right, that's what I mean " EQUAL " you treated them. I don't believe in EQUAL. Humans and animals are different.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Right, that's what I mean " EQUAL " you treated them. I don't believe in EQUAL. Humans and animals are different.

You still can´t get it then I can´t help you.

 

[Maria]

You still can´t get it then I can´t help you.

That's fine, because we don't see the same. We view them differently.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's fine, because we don't see the same. We view them differently.

No, you interpret my post in the wrong way.

I said I treat animal and human equal.

You claimed that I said animal and human are equal which I never said.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ouch, she can't read your post so carefully.

Unfortunlately yes.