Do you feel that hearing teachers restrict Deaf children in learning?

flip said:
You ask me why I would deprive them of choosing mainstream, and I ask you why you would deprive them of getting it all by putting them in a mainstream program.

Talking about successful deaf kids in mainstream programs is similar to talking about successful people that grew up smoking pot. In both cases, it's common to hear "I didn't get hurt, I am okay and all fine!". That's a worrysome statement, that reveal risk.

I many cases, mainstream programs are choosed as not the best, but the best choice available, and that's a sucker's choice, IMHO.
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I am sorry and with all due respect I don't agree with all of your views on this. I think that the degree of succes will be directly related to how much hearing loss there is. Kids that can get useful hearing with aids or a CI will most likley be more successful in mainstream programs than kids that are profoundly deaf and don't get any useful hearing with aids or a CI. That to me almost seems obvious. That said I am sure there are kids that are placed in mainstream programs that don't benefit because they are dumped there just because they have a CI or HA's or as you mentioned its the best choice available. In those cases I agree with you that they are not getting it all. What I don't agree with is that all deaf/hoh kids fall into that catagory. My personal uneducated and unprofessional view is that if an interpreter is needed then that kid should not be mainstreamed.

Your analagy about pot smokers and deaf kids that were successful in mainstream programs is not even a comparison I would consider.

It's not a perfect world but in your proposal you would deny choice. What I believe is that there is benefit in all programs and the level of success will be dependent on accurate assessment and proper placement. IMHO
 
rockdrummer said:
the Milan conference was over two centuries ago. With all of the discussion in the profession about bi-bi being a better model why is it then that the deaf leaders are not able to invoke change if it is truly beneficial to the majority?
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There has been groups formed but the resistance from man parent groups, the medical community and the oralists really do not help at all. The AGBell organization gets more money and support from the medical community while Deaf leaders face resistance from the same community. The view that oralism and being mainstreamed is still viewed as the ultimate goal by the majority.
 
shel90 said:
There has been groups formed but the resistance from man parent groups, the medical community and the oralists really do not help at all. The AGBell organization gets more money and support from the medical community while Deaf leaders face resistance from the same community. The view that oralism and being mainstreamed is still viewed as the ultimate goal by the majority.
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You have to put some weight on the fact that having the ability to communicate with the majority would have some benefit... yeah? You also have to come to grips with the fact that the entire hearing population is not going to learn and retain sign language. So what are you left with? Will all of that said there should be a happy medium that can be reached. I know that at some point in my childs life he will have to learn how to speak but that is not the top priority. Also worth mentioning is that while what you have described I am sure happens it's questionable (to me) how prevelant that is these days. I am not saying your take is not true only that In my personal experience nobody in the educational system has pushed for oralism.
 
rockdrummer said:
You have to put some weight on the fact that having the ability to communicate with the majority would have some benefit... yeah? You also have to come to grips with the fact that the entire hearing population is not going to learn and retain sign language. So what are you left with? Will all of that said there should be a happy medium that can be reached. I know that at some point in my childs life he will have to learn how to speak but that is not the top priority. Also worth mentioning is that while what you have described I am sure happens it's questionable (to me) how prevelant that is these days. I am not saying your take is not true only that In my personal experience nobody in the educational system has pushed for oralism.
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I have 10 plus experience working in different educational settings and it is always the mainstreamed programs that pushed for oralism and call the deaf children oral failures if they dont succeed with it. Even my own personal experience was the same when people talked about my brother about how he failed to be an oral success. It doesnt need to be said..the attitude is out there.
 
shel90 said:
I have 10 plus experience working in different educational settings and it is always the mainstreamed programs that pushed for oralism and call the deaf children oral failures if they dont succeed with it. Even my own personal experience was the same when people talked about my brother about how he failed to be an oral success. It doesnt need to be said..the attitude is out there.
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I don't doubt that there were and currently are kids that are not properly placed which to me would be a large part of the problem. As I mentioned in a previous post, if an intrepreter is needed then I don't think that child should be put in a mainstream program. If it were up to me that would be part of the criteria in proper placement.
 
rockdrummer said:
I don't doubt that there were and currently are kids that are not properly placed which to me would be a large part of the problem. As I mentioned in a previous post, if an intrepreter is needed then I don't think that child should be put in a mainstream program. If it were up to me that would be part of the criteria in proper placement.
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When I was working as an aide for a deaf program at a public school in AZ, I came up with an idea of an inservice for the district about how to educate the deaf/hoh students, work with interpreters and any other information about deafness. I submitted my idea to the principal and you know what he said? He said that they didnt need a a deaf person telling them how to run their program and that the head of the special ed dept knows what she is doing. I checked out her background and her degrees were working with children with learning disabilities. No wonder the program was failing the children big time and I left it because I felt like I was talking to a wall with the administrators and I needed my MA degree in Deaf ed to make myself more credible since I had a BA in Special ED only but I ended up staying in MD instead of going back to AZ like I planned to. I really would love to be a consultant for the mainstreamed programs and help educators who have no training in deaf ed effectively teach deaf/hoh chidlren but I dont think I will get the funding for that anytime soon due to the bad economy and budget cuts. I am seriously thinking of working for the dept of special ed on the federal level. I just need to take more classes on policy making and all that. Just takes time to build the experience and skills to get qualified to work at that level.
 
rockdrummer said:
You have to put some weight on the fact that having the ability to communicate with the majority would have some benefit... yeah? You also have to come to grips with the fact that the entire hearing population is not going to learn and retain sign language. So what are you left with? Will all of that said there should be a happy medium that can be reached. I know that at some point in my childs life he will have to learn how to speak but that is not the top priority. Also worth mentioning is that while what you have described I am sure happens it's questionable (to me) how prevelant that is these days. I am not saying your take is not true only that In my personal experience nobody in the educational system has pushed for oralism.
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you have to accept the fact that people don't want to deal with deaf people rather they are oral or use Sign language.
 
rockdrummer said:
I am sorry and with all due respect I don't agree with all of your views on this. I think that the degree of succes will be directly related to how much hearing loss there is. Kids that can get useful hearing with aids or a CI will most likley be more successful in mainstream programs than kids that are profoundly deaf and don't get any useful hearing with aids or a CI. That to me almost seems obvious. That said I am sure there are kids that are placed in mainstream programs that don't benefit because they are dumped there just because they have a CI or HA's or as you mentioned its the best choice available. In those cases I agree with you that they are not getting it all. What I don't agree with is that all deaf/hoh kids fall into that catagory. My personal uneducated and unprofessional view is that if an interpreter is needed then that kid should not be mainstreamed.

Your analagy about pot smokers and deaf kids that were successful in mainstream programs is not even a comparison I would consider.

It's not a perfect world but in your proposal you would deny choice. What I believe is that there is benefit in all programs and the level of success will be dependent on accurate assessment and proper placement. IMHO
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being an oral deaf myself in public mainstreamed school who did use hearing aids growing up , Oral deaf have no place in it either.
 
shel90 said:
When I was working as an aide for a deaf program at a public school in AZ, I came up with an idea of an inservice for the district about how to educate the deaf/hoh students, work with interpreters and any other information about deafness. I submitted my idea to the principal and you know what he said? He said that they didnt need a a deaf person telling them how to run their program and that the head of the special ed dept knows what she is doing. I checked out her background and her degrees were working with children with learning disabilities. No wonder the program was failing the children big time and I left it because I felt like I was talking to a wall with the administrators and I needed my MA degree in Deaf ed to make myself more credible since I had a BA in Special ED only but I ended up staying in MD instead of going back to AZ like I planned to. I really would love to be a consultant for the mainstreamed programs and help educators who have no training in deaf ed effectively teach deaf/hoh chidlren but I dont think I will get the funding for that anytime soon due to the bad economy and budget cuts. I am seriously thinking of working for the dept of special ed on the federal level. I just need to take more classes on policy making and all that. Just takes time to build the experience and skills to get qualified to work at that level.
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so does she have a MA or BA on special Education? If it is BA like yours, I would take it as an insult.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
so does she have a MA or BA on special Education? If it is BA like yours, I would take it as an insult.
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The principal? It was 12 years ago. I am sure that he has a BA degree at least to be qualified for the job. Dunno in what field though..
 
ahh... so basically you two have the same degree. Just that one of them was hired to be the head of Special Education Dept. and everyone else have to do it her way. My husband have a BA in Adminstration btw ~ it's purely business stuffs.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
ahh... so basically you two have the same degree. Just that one of them was hired to be the head of Special Education Dept. and everyone else have to do it her way. My husband have a BA in Adminstration btw ~ it's purely business stuffs.
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That was 12 years ago but I never met her. It was the principal who told me that when I submitted my idea. I guess I should have tried contacting her at the time but I felt so discouraged by the principal's words and at that time I was still dealing with low self-esteem issues from hating my deafness all of my life.
 
Those were hurtful words... Use your deafness as his reasons to think you don't know anything. as far as who is more qualified always seem to point to those who have more degree
 
Lighthouse77 said:
Those were hurtful words... Use your deafness as his reasons to think you don't know anything. as far as who is more qualified always seem to point to those who have more degree
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That's the audist view I despite with a passion. Anyone who has those kinds of views will never become a friend of mine.
 
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