Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[StSapphire]

You think that many teachers at oral schools, or at least, at this particular oral school, are not fluent in English?

Er, maybe I misunderstood your question.

I'm thinking many teachers at schools teaching literacy are not fluent in ASL, which would explain lower literacy rates without implicating the language acquisition model itself (oral vs asl) for having an impact on the literacy rate.

 

[shel90]

Er, maybe I misunderstood your question.

I'm thinking many teachers at schools teaching literacy are not fluent in ASL, which would explain lower literacy rates without implicating the language acquisition model itself (oral vs asl) for having an impact on the literacy rate.

It is the lack of accessibility that spoken language to deaf children due to being forced to use their weakest sense to acquire language and then acquire literacy skills. Tooooo risky and there is no need when we have ASL that is accessible to them using their stronger sense.

 

[DeafCaroline]

The teachers are fluent at speaking. The deaf kids are not fluent at hearing. Something gets lost in transit. Kids didn't hear the whole sentence nor the next one nor the next one. It adds up to an incomplete and poorly taught education.

 

[GrendelQ]

Er, maybe I misunderstood your question.

I'm thinking many teachers at schools teaching literacy are not fluent in ASL, which would explain lower literacy rates without implicating the language acquisition model itself (oral vs asl) for having an impact on the literacy rate.

I may have misunderstood -- I thought deafcaroline's school with the literacy issue was an oral school, which is why I was asking her if she thought that the method of lang. acquisition was driving the literacy issues, given that the deaf club was recommending incorporating ASL into the curriculum as a means to improve literacy.

 

[DeafCaroline]

GrendelQ - I followed maybe 10% of what was said in class. Everything I learned in school was not from the teachers but from my textbooks.

 

[Berry]

Berry: the statement I asked can't be true in contradiction-can it? How can it be? The discussion of this specific topic will be "parallel" with no resolution-reality counts?
This has duly noted here before: "cultural vs oral" deaf -ongoing intermural exercise.

Implanted A B Harmony Activated Aug/07

A. You can not "ask" a "statement". You can either make a statement or ask a question.

B. You are imputing logic where it does not belong.

C. You are missing parameters. You neglected to say "Who" says "What".

D. You are repeating yourself because you missed the point -- Again.

 

[shel90]

GrendelQ - I followed maybe 10% of what was said in class. Everything I learned in school was not from the teachers but from my textbooks.

Same here...


But I also wasnt able to pick up other skills like debates, engaging in intellectual discussions and so forth because I was too busy trying to keep up with my peers and playing the damn f*****ing guessing game ALL day.

 

[GrendelQ]

Same here...


But I also wasnt able to pick up other skills like debates, engaging in intellectual discussions and so forth because I was too busy trying to keep up with my peers and playing the damn f*****ing guessing game ALL day.

Mmmm, that's the sort of thing that really concerns me about mainstream settings. Even an ASL interpreter sitting by my child's side wouldn't mitigate that situation.

 

[GrendelQ]

GrendelQ - I followed maybe 10% of what was said in class. Everything I learned in school was not from the teachers but from my textbooks.

That's backed up by a lot of what I've read.

 

[shel90]

Mmmm, that's the sort of thing that really concerns me about mainstream settings. Even an ASL interpreter sitting by my child's side wouldn't mitigate that situation.

But at least with an ASL terp, it is better than just sitting in the room playing guessing games or counting the holes in the ceiling, or memorizing all the presidents since Washington, or analyzing my classmates' style of clothing. That was how I spent my days in school...just either daydreaming or looking to my peers sitting near me to see what page they are on so I wont make a fool out of myself.

 

[Berry]

Seriously have you ever tried to read the CC on TV? It's almost always completely horrid quality. The problems people have with CC has nothing to do with their ability to read and write, and much more to do with the fact that the CC on TV is very often extremely poor quality.

I have. I'm hearing and can read 165 wpm. Yet I often have a hard time keeping up, have to skip read, and sometimes the CC is just too fast for me.

Also this was discussed at one of the seminars I attended. It was interesting.

Hearing people expect to read complete sentences of what grammatically should have been said, not what actually was:

"Hiya there, Jackie maboy, HahYa doing." Becomes "Hi you there, Jackie, my boy. How have you been doing."

While if you are captioning for Deaf people, whose native language is ASL, who are watching the actions and expressions, "Hi Jack." might be perfectly acceptable, closer to ASL and easier to read.

Closed Captioning is far from a perfect answer. Nor is it as simple as it might seem.

 

[DeafCaroline]

But I also wasnt able to pick up other skills like debates, engaging in intellectual discussions and so forth because I was too busy trying to keep up with my peers and playing the damn f*****ing guessing game ALL day. ...


But at least with an ASL terp, it is better than just sitting in the room playing guessing games or counting the holes in the ceiling, or memorizing all the presidents since Washington, or analyzing my classmates' style of clothing. That was how I spent my days in school...just either daydreaming or looking to my peers sitting near me to see what page they are on so I wont make a fool out of myself.

Exactly the same for me.

 

[GrendelQ]

But at least with an ASL terp, it is better than just sitting in the room playing guessing games or counting the holes in the ceiling, or memorizing all the presidents since Washington, or analyzing my classmates' style of clothing. That was how I spent my days in school...just either daydreaming or looking to my peers sitting near me to see what page they are on so I wont make a fool out of myself.

That's insane -- how is it possible that your teachers didn't realize this (or did they?) and take some action?

I watched my daughter carefully at a gymnastics show last week: the coaches are from Eastern Europe and often slip into Armenian and Russian and shout incomprehensible instructions to the kids over the booming music they pipe into these big echo-y gyms, and the kids are mostly from China, Korea, Thailand, so English is usually a second language to them anyway -- so none of them actually hear what's being shouted, and they all use coping mechanisms, watching the gestures, following the more experienced girls who know what's expected. Li is sooo much better than anyone else at figuring out what's being shouted or expected -- while I can't make out a word of it. I was thinking how great this skill was. And then I realized how dangerous it is, as well. She might "pass" just as you did.

 

[shel90]

That's insane -- how is it possible that your teachers didn't realize this (or did they?) and take some action?

I watched my daughter carefully at a gymnastics show last week: the coaches are from Eastern Europe and often slip into Armenian and Russian and shout incomprehensible instructions to the kids over the booming music they pipe into these big echo-y gyms, and the kids are mostly from China, Korea, Thailand, so English is usually a second language to them anyway -- so none of them actually hear what's being shouted, and they all use coping mechanisms, watching the gestures, following the more experienced girls who know what's expected. Li is sooo much better than anyone else at figuring out what's being shouted or expected -- while I can't make out a word of it. I was thinking how great this skill was. And then I realized how dangerous it is, as well. She might "pass" just as you did.

That's mainstreaming for you...huge classes and one teacher trying to meet all of our learning styles. Of course, the quiet deaf student gets overlooked because the student isnt causing any trouble.

 

[Berry]

Where in the US are Deaf people being raised not to know how to read and write? Isn't it mandatory for everyone to go to school? How does one graduate school without knowing how to read and write? ASL has nothing to do with this, it's the failure of the education system, not ASL.

As I recall Lee Ioccoca deplored the level of reading skills of the average worker he encountered.

The US spends more money on education and achieves less than any other country with an educational system.

 

[Berry]

I have said ,'ah hah see" only to get "But my child will be different," or "My child can hear."

Oh well...unfortunately, every year we see kids get transferred to our program after falling so far behind and then people expect that because they learn ASL, they will catch up. Not always...some do if they have language delays but if they have language deficits, almost never be able to catch up and end up with low literacy skills. It is a shame.

I do go nuts sometimes but I do my best for those who lost a lot of years due to ASL being devalued by their families or the public schools.

Please explain to me the difference between a language delay and a language deficit.

 

[drphil]

The article by Heather Marsden was in Deaf Canada Today December 1998.page 6.I still have the article


I joined Alldeaf.com last year-July/10. Almost a year.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[DeafCaroline]

As I recall Lee Ioccoca deplored the level of reading skills of the average worker he encountered.

The US spends more money on education and achieves less than any other country with an educational system.

Did you see that documentary Waiting for Superman?

 

[Berry]

DrPhil is disagreeing with Lane's position that CI's are, supposedly, "an instrument of genocide to the deaf community," per the book, "Journey Into the Deaf World," by Lane and others. He mentions that Michael Chorost's book "Rebuilt" also discussed the issue.

DrPhil thinks Lane's position is drivel, and wonders if Deaf Militants still believe this. He (drphil) acknowledges that the position of the "US Deaf Association" (a group whose name he is not completely sure of) has changed regarding this "cultural genocide" assumption.

As a bilateral deaf person himself, who uses CIs, he strongly disagrees with that assertion and calls it a "strange categorization."

--------

What's so difficult about that? Better punctuation would be a help, but I've seen worse writing here.

Better punctuation would be a help -- Maybe. And yes, I've seen worse, but his is the only case where it is totally inconsistent.

One post he sounds like a professor.

Next post he writes like a native ASL user with limited grasp of English grammar.

 

[shel90]

Please explain to me the difference between a language delay and a language deficit.

Language delay is when one is at least 2 years behind in hitting the milestones for language development.

Language deficits is when there are gaps in one's language meaning one has the ability to converse in social settings but unable to retell what happened int heir day or in stories.

With language delays..there are no gaps in each stage of development...just that one is lagging behind their counterparts.

With language deficits...gaps in cognitive process therefore retarding their brain development. Those are much much much harder to overcome and most of the time the children who get referred to deaf schools after falling behind have deficits so even if they learn ASL...their ability to think critically has been so seriously comromised from so many years of not having access to language and communication in their environment.


Then, it becomes an ugly and vicious cycle...people start blaming the deaf schools for children who have poor literacy skills without really finding out why..just automatically equate....deaf schools= poor literacy skills.