Deaf Teachers teaching Deaf Students [ in an ORALISM school ]

faire joure, how many deaf teachers are at oral schools OVERALL? There may be one or two, but there were some deaf teachers at oral schools in the old days.
Jillo is saying that while oral abilty can be taught and mastered on basic levels very few dhh as kids people have such good oral abilty (both articulation and language) that they can teach in an oral school.
 
deafdyke said:
faire joure, how many deaf teachers are at oral schools OVERALL? There may be one or two, but there were some deaf teachers at oral schools in the old days.
Jillo is saying that while oral abilty can be taught and mastered on basic levels very few dhh as kids people have such good oral abilty (both articulation and language) that they can teach in an oral school.
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Wait, are you saying that deaf people can't speak well enough to teach in an oral school? Earlier you said that it was too much like "speech therapy", but I thought Shel said that deaf teachers wouldn't do it because they don't support oralism?

So is it the teachers that don't want to do it, or that they don't have the "ability" or that the oral schools won't hire them?
 
faire_jour said:
Wait, are you saying that deaf people can't speak well enough to teach in an oral school? Earlier you said that it was too much like "speech therapy", but I thought Shel said that deaf teachers wouldn't do it because they don't support oralism?

So is it the teachers that don't want to do it, or that they don't have the "ability" or that the oral schools won't hire them?[/QUOTE]

Most likely both...most deaf people I know dont believe in this philosophy and I have known a few who tried to apply for these programs only not to get hired in addition to seeing how none of the oral-only programs I have visited had deaf staff on their roster. It wasnt one, it was quite a good number.

Your state must be very very unique.
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For what its worth - I related the most with the teachers who were culturally Deaf. I still do things with the Deaf teachers I had in high school to this day.... I forgot who my hearing teachers were...
 
posts from hell said:
For what its worth - I related the most with the teachers who were culturally Deaf. I still do things with the Deaf teachers I had in high school to this day.... I forgot who my hearing teachers were...
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You are lucky to have teachers who were deaf. I only had hearing teachers and all instilled their hearing views in me making me feel like a broken hearing person who needed to work harder on speech skills. :barf:
 
I want to work in a school for the Deaf, but in this economy I may not get what I want-- I might have to apply for a school that does oral, and even though it's less likely that I'd get the job, I should still apply. I find it ironic because my BA was in English, and my MEd is in Deaf Ed, which are two great fields to get them started in learning the English language via reading and writing, but all the focus is on speaking..
 
posts from hell said:
For what its worth - I related the most with the teachers who were culturally Deaf. I still do things with the Deaf teachers I had in high school to this day.... I forgot who my hearing teachers were...
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shel90 said:
You are lucky to have teachers who were deaf. I only had hearing teachers and all instilled their hearing views in me making me feel like a broken hearing person who needed to work harder on speech skills. :barf:
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Make two that pfh, you are lucky. I had hearing teachers with lousy signs and one "try too hard to be oral" bittered deaf teacher. I like her but her attitude was so bitter. Later, i learned as to why she was bitter because of the hearing teachers who does not always agreed with her at school. :( I could not believe that they hired the LOUSY teachers with LOUSY signs at DEAF SCHOOL. Oh my god! No wonder they are trying to close my old deaf school because of the lower grade standard. Some parents pulled kids out of deaf school and placed them into hearing school. The result was that the other kids who were placed in hearing school and attended to the same college as I did, we are in the same level anyway. SAD
 
bwright6 said:
I want to work in a school for the Deaf, but in this economy I may not get what I want-- I might have to apply for a school that does oral, and even though it's less likely that I'd get the job, I should still apply. I find it ironic because my BA was in English, and my MEd is in Deaf Ed, which are two great fields to get them started in learning the English language via reading and writing, but all the focus is on speaking..
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I know of several deaf schools that are hiring. If not now, they will be hiring in a few years.

Colorado's one of them. RMDS, and CSDB.

Check them out. They have a hiring procedure where they will select the deaf person before the hearing counterpart.

However, if the hearing counterpart's ASL Is better than yours.... They'll get the job.
 
posts from hell said:
I know of several deaf schools that are hiring. If not now, they will be hiring in a few years.

Colorado's one of them. RMDS, and CSDB.

Check them out. They have a hiring procedure where they will select the deaf person before the hearing counterpart.

However, if the hearing counterpart's ASL Is better than yours.... They'll get the job.
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My state school for the Deaf gives preference to deaf or hoh (or blind) applicants as well. Both in the bi-bi and oral programs.
 
bwright6 said:
I want to work in a school for the Deaf, but in this economy I may not get what I want-- I might have to apply for a school that does oral, and even though it's less likely that I'd get the job, I should still apply. I find it ironic because my BA was in English, and my MEd is in Deaf Ed, which are two great fields to get them started in learning the English language via reading and writing, but all the focus is on speaking..
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Agreed. You are really in a double bind. Any deaf student would be lucky to have a teacher with your credentials. Their literacy would be sure to improve. And I am referring to written English skills, not spoken. Unfortunately, the oral philospphy tends to place emphasis on spoken skills over written. And then they wonder why literacy scores are low.:roll: Pretty obvious to me.
 
posts from hell said:
For what its worth - I related the most with the teachers who were culturally Deaf. I still do things with the Deaf teachers I had in high school to this day.... I forgot who my hearing teachers were...
Click to expand...

I would think that would hold true for most. They were the ones you could relate to.
 
deafdyke said:
faire joure, how many deaf teachers are at oral schools OVERALL? There may be one or two, but there were some deaf teachers at oral schools in the old days.
Jillo is saying that while oral abilty can be taught and mastered on basic levels very few dhh as kids people have such good oral abilty (both articulation and language) that they can teach in an oral school.
Click to expand...

Thank God, it's not me. Someone seems to understand what I'm saying!:lol:
 
I'm confused.... why would there be more than one or two deaf teachers in an oral school? It seems more than I thought it would be. Fact of the matter is... what, like 10% of the population is deaf, right? And who says that ALL of them are gonna be teachers? And I would think a deaf teacher is more likely to work in a deaf school than an oral school anyway?! I don't even UNDERSTAND why people automatically think its because oral schools are not hiring them, just because there are only 1 or 2? That's like saying "Oh, that school does not hire Asian people, because that school only has one or two Asian teachers. DISCRIMINATION!!!!"
 
Daredevel7 said:
I'm confused.... why would there be more than one or two deaf teachers in an oral school? It seems more than I thought it would be. Fact of the matter is... what, like 10% of the population is deaf, right? And who says that ALL of them are gonna be teachers? And I would think a deaf teacher is more likely to work in a deaf school than an oral school anyway?! I don't even UNDERSTAND why people automatically think its because oral schools are not hiring them, just because there are only 1 or 2? That's like saying "Oh, that school does not hire Asian people, because that school only has one or two Asian teachers. DISCRIMINATION!!!!"
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How many of those would become teachers, but are discouraged from doing so because of their speech skills, and the limited number of bi-bi programs available?

Teaching used to be a primary occupation of deaf adults, in the days when Deaf schools used ASL as the language of instruction. Not just as teachers, but as employees of all sorts at the institutions. The number of deaf individuals even studying education has plummeted in correlation to the push for more oral programs. That is the point being made. The push in deaf education today is restricting deaf individuals' employment opportunities. Ironic, isn't it?
 
I, for one, would like to see more deaf teachers in oral schools. Not being an expert on oral schools I did not know there were not very many deaf teachers at these schools. I have learned something new!

I'm starting to worry about the parents who are really pushing oral skills over anything else. I may be arrogant when I talk about my speech skills, but I know all too well how hard a struggle it is to function (receptively, that is) at work, in school, and in social settings relying solely on HA help and lipreading when ASL cannot come into play (meaning it is more than likely your co-workers will not know ASL, your teachers will not know ASL if you are enrolled in a regular public school curriculum like I was, and how many people will you encounter in a bar or a work party that sign ASL? Practically zero.) What parents are pushing for their child to have, orally and not visually, will often have significant impact as the child grows older. I've been there and done all that.
 
Having the help of HAs and lipreading do go a long, long ways. I don't want to come across as being anti-oral in any way. It's just WORK to have to function orally at all times when my ears are so deaf! :)
 
AlleyCat said:
I, for one, would like to see more deaf teachers in oral schools. Not being an expert on oral schools I did not know there were not very many deaf teachers at these schools. I have learned something new!

I'm starting to worry about the parents who are really pushing oral skills over anything else. I may be arrogant when I talk about my speech skills, but I know all too well how hard a struggle it is to function (receptively, that is) at work, in school, and in social settings relying solely on HA help and lipreading when ASL cannot come into play (meaning it is more than likely your co-workers will not know ASL, your teachers will not know ASL if you are enrolled in a regular public school curriculum like I was, and how many people will you encounter in a bar or a work party that sign ASL? Practically zero.) What parents are pushing for their child to have, orally and not visually, will often have significant impact as the child grows older. I've been there and done all that.
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So, so true. And the point that Shel and I have repeatedly made. The impact does not manifest until later...and then it is a matter of having to remediate. Remediation is much more difficult that providing the environment that fosters visual processing and skills initially.
 
AlleyCat said:
Having the help of HAs and lipreading do go a long, long ways. I don't want to come across as being anti-oral in any way. It's just WORK to have to function orally at all times when my ears are so deaf! :)
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And that is the point. No one, me included is anti-oral skills. I made sure my son had the opportunity to develop oral skills to the best of his ability. But I did not ignore the visual in the process. It was a combined effort. And that is the approach I took because so many deaf told me exactly the same thing you are saying.

You know, I find it odd sometimes, that no one takes into consideration that even the hearing use vision to take in an abundance of information daily. Yet the deaf are discouraged from using that skill that the hearing use without even being conscious of it. It has been said by linguists and cognitive psychologists for many years that the hearing get more information in communication through their observance of non-verbal communication than through the actual verbal component. They constantly observe the non-verbal messages to clarify and comprehend the verbal messages. If that is so for hearing, why in the world do we discourage the deaf from doing the same?
 
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