Deaf Baptists embrace unreached Deaf peoples

[Aleser]

Ah, okay. I can't help myself here. But I will post one more comment... :P

Okay -- As a former Christian, I can see why Christians try to "save" people from Hell because they don't want to see them being burned alive after their death. I can see where they stand on their belief. It is easy to see them being "rude" to generally you when they try to "help" or "save" you when they're caring for, generally, your being well. Still, I don't agree with their own actions or their own words that they try to change someone's personal belief. That is what happened to me when someone really tried to make me go back to Christianity again, at dA. Yes, I understand her concern and I appreciated her for her caring. Still, it is not helpful if someone is upset for your departure and try to get you in a debate in order to "save" you. It is just too much.

Sighs. Well, a few Wiccans even told me that I will have to learn how to deal with them...

I understand that it is usually well intentioned. But intent is not enough.

 

[Reba]

Of course I trust them to make their own decisions. And, I support them in doing so. You, apparently, don't have the same faith in the Deaf's ability to decide for themselves as you do in man's description of a religious doctrine.

I trust the Deaf to decide for themselves as individuals whether or not to accept Jesus Christ. I believe they are fully capable of making their own decisions without being "protected" by you or any other hearing person.

Why would you think that the good of the world is dependent upon Christian missionary work? There is virtually nothing to support that, other than faith based on stories that cannot be supported with evidence.

The good of the world? It is the eternal security of each individual that is important.

If not for the Christians spreading the good news, no one else will.

 

[jillio]

I understand that it is usually well intentioned. But intent is not enough.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Good intentions do not necessarily result in good outcomes.

 

[jillio]

I trust the Deaf to decide for themselves as individuals whether or not to accept Jesus Christ. I believe they are fully capable of making their own decisions without being "protected" by you or any other hearing person.


The good of the world? It is the eternal security of each individual that is important.

If not for the Christians spreading the good news, no one else will.

Then why is it that you do not support their being allowed to do so?

So, the Christians are the only group that can determine what is good news? Again, that is a very ethnocentric statement.

 

[deafdyke]

And the reason for forcing oral language policies. "They must HEAR the word of God so they will not perish in hell", and all that stuff.

Who said the souls of the Deaf should be ignored? I think the Deaf are perfectly capable of deciding what they should do about the fate of their soul. Should they desire salvation in the form of Baptist teachings, they are perfectly capable of seeking it out.

Exactly!!!!! There is a TON of Christian stuff out there...We live in a country where Christianity is the dominent religion. So much, that even I (a kid who grew up without going to church. As a matter of fact, the extent of my religious training was chapel at YMCA camp) picked up stuff about the Bible, and can answer a lot of questions about the Bible on Jeopardy!

 

[Reba]

No, it is disturbing when one group feels the need to force it on others. Sharing would follow a request.

Nothing is forced. It can't be. Even Jesus Himself forced no one.

It is disturbing when one group selfishly determines that their need to feel like a savior to the poor, ignorant savage is more important than freedom to make one's own choices without interference from those with a belief in their own superiority.

Clearly you don't understand. Missionary work is for the humble, not proud. There is only one Savior, and that is Jesus. No Christian is a savior. We don't look upon people as ignorant savages. Do you? Christians certainly aren't superior to those whom they serve. After all, missionaries are the servants, not the served.

 

[deafdyke]

The numbers of Deaf who have not been exposed to some form of Christian ideology would be so minuscule as to be non-existent.

Exactly. Let them decide for themselves. Don't offer assistance where it has not been requested.

I am the gate keeper of personal empowerment and choice. I took an oath. Again, let them decide for themselves. To assume they cannot is patonizing and insulting. Yet when you offer assistance where it has not been requested, that is exactly the assumption being made.

Reba, you prolly dislike it when Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons come to your door right? They assume the same thing you're assuming.....that you have not heard the Right Word. So why is YOUR version of the right word (ie Baptist) the right one? There are tons and tons of interpretations of what it means to be Christian. Why are Baptist teachings the right one?

 

[jillio]

Nothing is forced. It can't be. Even Jesus Himself forced no one.


Clearly you don't understand. Missionary work is for the humble, not proud. There is only one Savior, and that is Jesus. No Christian is a savior. We don't look upon people as ignorant savages. Do you? Christians certainly aren't superior to those whom they serve. After all, missionaries are the servants, not the served.

When a group takes it upon themselves to enter into another's geographical domain without being invited, and with the express purpose of promoting the group's particular view without consideration for all of the cultural implications of their actions, it is indeed forced.

Missionaries tell others that the work if for the humble, as a way to attract more into the practice.

I see. Because I have a different perspective, I don't understand. Again, that is an assumption you are making that is erroneous, just as when it is assumed that one has not adopted Christian views because they have not had the opportunity to learn.

It is rather presumptuous to believe that just because one can serve, the service is desired without it having been requested.

 

[Reba]

Then why is it that you do not support their being allowed to do so?

So, the Christians are the only group that can determine what is good news? Again, that is a very ethnocentric statement.

I've posted it repeated times. Each individual, Deaf or hearing, makes a personal decision whether or not to accept Jesus.

Since it is the good news of Jesus Christ, it makes sense that only Christians would want to deliver it.

Christians are not an ethnic group.

 

[jillio]

I've posted it repeated times. Each individual, Deaf or hearing, makes a personal decision whether or not to accept Jesus.

Since it is the good news of Jesus Christ, it makes sense that only Christians would want to deliver it.

Christians are not an ethnic group.

If you truly believe that, then there is no need for missionaries.

No, but the groups to whom they preach, especially in remote areas, are ethnic groups. The missionaries have no respect for the right to that ethnicity.

Just because one wants to deliver something doesn't mean it is necessary to deliver it. "Good news" is a very subjective thing.

 

[Aleser]

I've posted it repeated times. Each individual, Deaf or hearing, makes a personal decision whether or not to accept Jesus.

Since it is the good news of Jesus Christ, it makes sense that only Christians would want to deliver it.

Christians are not an ethnic group.

The violation happens the moment a missionary steps on your land. They have ALREADY taken it upon themselves to destroy you and your communities right to self determine: if they didn't, what are they doing on your property without your permission, trying to get you to read a book or listen to their religion's myths instead of your own?

You DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to try and "expose" people to "the good news". When you have reached that stage, you have already committed violence against them and their culture.

 

[Reba]

And why is it that you think that presentation of the Gospel is something that the Deaf, or the hearing need? That is your belief and nothing more. There is no evidence to support the belief that this presentation, particularly when it has not been requested, is a need in any definition of the term.

Just because you think my belief is nothing, that doesn't make it so.

I think that presentation of the Gospel is the only way for the Deaf or hearing to learn about Jesus Christ, His love and grace.

 

[jillio]

The violation happens the moment a missionary steps on your land. They have ALREADY taken it upon themselves to destroy you and your communities right to self determine: if they didn't, what are they doing on your property without your permission, trying to get you to read a book or listen to their religion's myths instead of your own?

You DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to try and "expose" people to "the good news". When you have reached that stage, you have already committed violence against them and their culture.

To even make the decision that their presence will be received as beneficial is a violation.

 

[jillio]

Just because you think my belief is nothing, that doesn't make it so.

I think that presentation of the Gospel is the only way for the Deaf or hearing to learn about Jesus Christ, His love and grace.

And just because you think your belief is everything doesn't make it so.

The last I checked, the Deaf could read. And since so very few churches actually make accommodation for the D/deaf, it is a bit hypocritical to believe that any Christian has to duty to present the gospel unless they are making the same effort in their own place of residence. Or is it that the missionaries prefer a captive audience?

 

[Reba]

No, it is disturbing when one group feels the need to force it on others. Sharing would follow a request.

Well, our "group," as you call it, does not feel the need to force anything on others.

Sharing doesn't need to follow a request. Haven't you ever offered to share something with someone without waiting for a request? Most generous people have done that.

 

[jillio]

Well, our "group," as you call it, does not feel the need to force anything on others.

Sharing doesn't need to follow a request. Haven't you ever offered to share something with someone without waiting for a request? Most generous people have done that.

Then why are they engaging in missionary work?

Sharing is diadic. Preaching is not.

 

[Reba]

Reba, you prolly dislike it when Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons come to your door right? They assume the same thing you're assuming.....that you have not heard the Right Word.

They very rarely come to my door. It's been years since they have. However, if they did, I would it as an opportunity to witness.

So why is YOUR version of the right word (ie Baptist) the right one? There are tons and tons of interpretations of what it means to be Christian. Why are Baptist teachings the right one?

I happen to be a member of a Baptist church but the salvation of Jesus Christ is not a Baptist-only doctrine.

 

[Aleser]

They very rarely come to my door. It's been years since they have. However, if they did, I would it as an opportunity to witness.


I happen to be a member of a Baptist church but the salvation of Jesus Christ is not a Baptist-only doctrine.

So, why do Christian missionaries preach in Muslim countries, again?

 

[Reba]

And just because you think your belief is everything doesn't make it so.

The last I checked, the Deaf could read.

In America, most can, yes. I have met Deaf adults who cannot read. Most hearing people can read, too, but not all. So?

And since so very few churches actually make accommodation for the D/deaf, it is a bit hypocritical to believe that any Christian has to duty to present the gospel unless they are making the same effort in their own place of residence. Or is it that the missionaries prefer a captive audience?

Local Christian churches reach out to local Deaf populations. In our church we have interpreters for signing Deaf, and FM systems for hard of hearing. Christians are supposed to witness to people in their local areas AND around the world.

 

[Reba]

So, why do Christian missionaries preach in Muslim countries, again?

Which Muslim countries? Christians aren't allowed to proselytize in most Muslim countries, if not all. We aren't allowed to send missionaries to those countries because they aren't allowed in. We aren't allowed to send missionaries to Israel either.