Ci's For My Baby

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Nasty doing to this to babies..

MONSTERS!!!
 
Why not just accept her as she is.... regardless of what you do to her, she will always be deaf.... sad the poor baby is surrounded by doctors when she needs supportive family....
 
No need to warn...
Sometime the sting of our bite, is needed!!!

"You will know us by the trail of our signs!!!!!!"
 
hoichi said:
Nasty doing to this to babies..

MONSTERS!!!
Click to expand...
UNCALLED FOR!!!!! This is completely uncalled for!!!! I'm sorry but ALL a CI is, is a tool. It's basicly a more advanced hearing aid. It doesn't make a child hearing. If parents see reactions like this, they're not going to learn ASL....they're just going to take this as an example of how extreme the Deaf community is, and how their kid will never be a part of it. *goes back to lurking*
 
Didn't you leave allDeaf? Deafdyke
Welcome back
Actually it's my opinion...and until a mod tells me not to share my opinion I accept all opinions are fine here. That means all....

Yes
I think doing ci to babies is monstrous.
Are you seeking some thought control on me something?

Am I a thought crime felon now?
 
deafdyke said:
UNCALLED FOR!!!!! This is completely uncalled for!!!! I'm sorry but ALL a CI is, is a tool. It's basicly a more advanced hearing aid. It doesn't make a child hearing. If parents see reactions like this, they're not going to learn ASL....they're just going to take this as an example of how extreme the Deaf community is, and how their kid will never be a part of it. *goes back to lurking*
Click to expand...

Your post here completely and utterly ignores Deaf history,ci history, it's relation to oralist ideology what oralissm is and what it has done to Deaf...the development of ci, the reserCh done to Deaf for it against DeAf wishes..the fact that in some countries Deaf have NO choice in ci for their babies or not.

Actually ci and its history is far more then a mere more powerful hearing aid
Have you ever even taken a Deaf history or studies course.?
Or even actually engaged Deaf on this issue as we see it, and their is a wide view as spectrum of opinions granted but don't kid yourself for a second to believe ci is just a powerful hearing aid.
It's a technology of assimilation and normalization on a scale far greater the any hearing aid.

Judging by your posts
Clearly you have not
 
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hoichi said:
Didn't you leave allDeaf?
Welcome back
Actually it's my opinion...and until a mod tells me not to share my opinion I accept all opinions are fine here.

Yes
I think doing ci to babies is monstrous.
Are you seeking some thought control on me something?

Am I a thought crime felon now?
Click to expand...

deafdyke said:
UNCALLED FOR!!!!! This is completely uncalled for!!!! I'm sorry but ALL a CI is, is a tool. It's basicly a more advanced hearing aid. It doesn't make a child hearing. If parents see reactions like this, they're not going to learn ASL....they're just going to take this as an example of how extreme the Deaf community is, and how their kid will never be a part of it. *goes back to lurking*
Click to expand...

I took her latest post to be that the type of replies you are posting are driving the OP and others away rather than attracting them to your viewpoint.
 
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Im not here to attract anyone to my viewpoint.

I'm not a politician nor am I in this for a popularity contest.

I state my opinions
If people wish to discuss things with me cool
If not
Cool
 
Feel free to check out the facebook called cochlear implant ...
 
hoichi said:
Your post here completely and utterly ignores Deaf history,ci history, it's relation to oralist ideology what oralissm is and what it has done to Deaf...the development of ci, the reserCh done to Deaf for it against DeAf wishes..the fact that in some countries Deaf have NO choice in ci for their babies or not.

Actually ci and its history is far more then a mere more powerful hearing aid
Have you ever even taken a Deaf history or studies course.?
Or even actually engaged Deaf on this issue as we see it, and their is a wide view as spectrum of opinions granted but don't kid yourself for a second to believe ci is just a powerful hearing aid.
It's a technology of assimilation and normalization on a scale far greater the any hearing aid.

Judging by your posts
Clearly you have not
Click to expand...
Oh give me a break. Who are you? Sweetmind redux? Using a CI doesn't always mean someone is going to go oral only. Sometimes a kid might not have ANY residual hearing at ALL to work with, and havign a CI could boost up their chances of being able to be bimodal and bilingal. I HAVE taken a Deaf Studies and history course..... FYI oralism was alive and well with just hearing aids..... It's not exclusive to CIs.....and YES, all a CI IS is a glorified hearing aid. You do not hear normally with it, and at BEST a CI kid functions as HOH. (mild loss) You know what? One of my friends went to a CI expo for work. She thought that they were going to tell her that ALL kids function as mildly HOH. GUESS WHAT? They told her that the effectiveness of CI varies HUGELY from an excellent user (mild loss) to only enviormental sound awareness and every and anything in between!!!!! And you know what? If it did indeed assimulate children into the mainstream, you wouldn't see all the problems that are there.....and there are THOUSANDS...it's BEYOND BEYOND common for kids to appear to do well (or relatively well )early on and then start really struggling both academicly and socially. You're mixing up a simple tool with an auditory verbal philosophy with raising and educating dhh kids..... Yes, an auditory verbal philsophy IS AWFUL and child abuse to the max. But you CAN raise a dhh kid BILINGALLY and bimodally with a CI. It's not always about an assimulate into the mainstream oralism.
 
deafdyke said:
Oh give me a break. Who are you? Sweetmind redux? Using a CI doesn't always mean someone is going to go oral only. Sometimes a kid might not have ANY residual hearing at ALL to work with, and havign a CI could boost up their chances of being able to be bimodal and bilingal. I HAVE taken a Deaf Studies and history course..... FYI oralism was alive and well with just hearing aids..... It's not exclusive to CIs.....and YES, all a CI IS is a glorified hearing aid. You do not hear normally with it, and at BEST a CI kid functions as HOH. (mild loss) You know what? One of my friends went to a CI expo for work. She thought that they were going to tell her that ALL kids function as mildly HOH. GUESS WHAT? They told her that the effectiveness of CI varies HUGELY from an excellent user (mild loss) to only enviormental sound awareness and every and anything in between!!!!! And you know what? If it did indeed assimulate children into the mainstream, you wouldn't see all the problems that are there.....and there are THOUSANDS...it's BEYOND BEYOND common for kids to appear to do well (or relatively well )early on and then start really struggling both academicly and socially. You're mixing up a simple tool with an auditory verbal philosophy with raising and educating dhh kids..... Yes, an auditory verbal philsophy IS AWFUL and child abuse to the max. But you CAN raise a dhh kid BILINGALLY and bimodally with a CI. It's not always about an assimulate into the mainstream oralism.
Click to expand...

Actually ci is always about assimilation, ci is after all a technology of assimilation and normalization.

The success of the assimilation is a a different matter then the actual ideological drive for the assimilation. And this success will very with the individual, granted. And wether the assimilation is began as early as the drill can turn or later...

But assimilation is the goal.

Most clearly demonstrated in the drive and push for implanting babies, which first was done against medical advice, and was driven by the need to expand the ci market, when after market research it was discovered to the industries dismay that most Deaf adults wouldn't as they thought drop their knees and beg them to drill holes In our heads And save us from our god awful curse..and that we were fairly happy being Deaf...

Thus the market needed to expand as well as the ideology which dictated of course the best option for assimilation is to start as young as possible.

This is of course documented. In one of books I'll recommend you at the end of this post.

Assimilation
Is after all the very idea behind it

If your going to engage me and my ideas be precise or bugger off.

There are a number of levels here to this discussion.
If your Sencere you would know that.

CI is far more then a glorified hearing aid, you may have taken some courses some place sure,but clearly you have not spent much time around Deaf or even truly and sincerely discussed this issue amongst us if that's really all you think of ci.

Oralisism certainly was alive and well prior to ci, it was and is one of the main ideologies that has driven the industry. It's the main measure of success with In it really.

It is more then a simple tool.

Tools wether they are guns,gas chambers, prisons, a drill you pick are NOT separate from the ideologies that have given rise to them. And the ideologies that drive them. When it comes to tools that are used on people, as a means of assimilation they are far more then simply tools

Are you arguing native residential schools where simply tools like any school?

Or where they something far different besides a place for the tools of education to be used?

You clearly do not understand or know much of our history, so to save me some time perhaps you can educate yourself

I recommend paddy lads understanding Deaf culture. For a good start

As for ci, and it's history and a fair analysis of Deaf opposition to them, I recommend the artificial ear.

For ci and the hearie cultures drive for assimilation and its ramifications I recommend Harlan lanes the mask of benevolence..

Here is a question for you

Why do the majority of professionals today in the ci industry insist the child or baby who is implanted NOT learn and acquire sign? So that the Deaf baby will "not revert back to being Deaf"
There has been minimal movement within the profession regarding sign, I grant.
But the standard is above. As of now



Start your education in this with that question.
You may learn something

When a cultures wishes are ignored. When a cultures language is attacked, strangled by the attempt and success of denying its acquisition to the cultures young, when instead holes are drilled into our babies heads for the goal to have them hearie and speak...
The tools you dismiss as glorified hearing aids to us, are some thing all together different.
And the fact you can't or won't see that is certainly to me anyway hardly surprising given your posts
 
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hoichi said:
Actually ci is always about assimilation, ci is after all a technology of assimilation and normalization.

The success of the assimilation is a a different matter then the actual ideological drive for the assimilation. And this success will very with the individual, granted. And wether the assimilation is began as early as the drill can turn or later...

But assimilation is the goal.

Most clearly demonstrated in the drive and push for implanting babies, which first was done against medical advice, and was driven by the need to expand the ci market, when after market research it was discovered to the industries dismay that most Deaf adults wouldn't as they thought drop their knees and beg them to drill holes In our heads Nd save us from our god awful curse..and that we were fairly happy being Deaf...

Thus the market needed to expand as well as the ideology which dictated of course the best option for assimilation is to start as young gas possible.

This is of course documented. In one of the two books I'll recommend you at the end of this post.

Assimilation
Is after all the very idea behind it

If your going to engage me and my ideas be precise or bugger off.

There are a number of levels here to this discussion.
If your Sencere you would know that.

CI is far more then a glorified hearing aid, you may have taken some courses some place sure,but clearly you have not spent much time around Deaf or even truly and sincerely discussed this issue amongst us if that's really all you think of ci.

Oralisism certainly was alive and well prior to ci, it was and is one of the main ideologies that has driven the industry. It's the main measure of success with In it really.

It is more then a simple tool.

Tools wether they are guns,gas chambers, prisons, a drill you pick are NOT separate from the ideologies that have given rise to them. And the ideologies that drive them. When it comes to tools that are used on people, as a means of assimilation they are far more then simply tools

Are you arguing native residential schools where simply tools like any school?

Or where they something far different besides a place for the tools of education to be used?

You clearly do not understand or know much of our history, so to save me some time perhaps you can educate yourself

I recommend paddy lads understanding Deaf culture. For a good start

As for ci, and it's history and a fair analysis of Deaf opposition to them, I recommend the artificial ear.

For ci and the hearie cultures drive for assimilation and its ramifications I recommend Harlan lanes the mask of benevolence..

Here is a question for you

Why do the majority of professionals today in the ci industry insist the child or baby who is implanted NOT learn and acquire sign? So that the Deaf baby will "not revert back to being Deaf"
There has been minimal movement within the profession regarding sign, I grant.
But the standard is above. As of now



Start your education in this with that question.
You may learn something

When a cultures wishes are ignored. When a cultures language is attacked, strangled by the attempt and success of denying its acquisition to the cultures young, when instead holes are drilled into our babies heads for the goal to have them hearie and speak...
The tools you dismiss as glorified hearing aids to us, are some thing all together different.
And the fact you can't or won't see that is certainly to me anyway hardly surprising given your posts
Click to expand...

Obsessed much??

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Obsessed much??

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Yes when someone qoutes me and or replies to my post in a discussion I actually reply....

That maybe a bit over your head...

But that's how I roll
 
hoichi said:
Actually ci is always about assimilation, ci is after all a technology of assimilation and normalization.

The success of the assimilation is a a different matter then the actual ideological drive for the assimilation. And this success will very with the individual, granted. And wether the assimilation is began as early as the drill can turn or later...

But assimilation is the goal.

Most clearly demonstrated in the drive and push for implanting babies, which first was done against medical advice, and was driven by the need to expand the ci market, when after market research it was discovered to the industries dismay that most Deaf adults wouldn't as they thought drop their knees and beg them to drill holes In our heads And save us from our god awful curse..and that we were fairly happy being Deaf...

Thus the market needed to expand as well as the ideology which dictated of course the best option for assimilation is to start as young as possible.

This is of course documented. In one of books I'll recommend you at the end of this post.

Assimilation
Is after all the very idea behind it

If your going to engage me and my ideas be precise or bugger off.

There are a number of levels here to this discussion.
If your Sencere you would know that.

CI is far more then a glorified hearing aid, you may have taken some courses some place sure,but clearly you have not spent much time around Deaf or even truly and sincerely discussed this issue amongst us if that's really all you think of ci.

Oralisism certainly was alive and well prior to ci, it was and is one of the main ideologies that has driven the industry. It's the main measure of success with In it really.

It is more then a simple tool.

Tools wether they are guns,gas chambers, prisons, a drill you pick are NOT separate from the ideologies that have given rise to them. And the ideologies that drive them. When it comes to tools that are used on people, as a means of assimilation they are far more then simply tools

Are you arguing native residential schools where simply tools like any school?

Or where they something far different besides a place for the tools of education to be used?

You clearly do not understand or know much of our history, so to save me some time perhaps you can educate yourself

I recommend paddy lads understanding Deaf culture. For a good start

As for ci, and it's history and a fair analysis of Deaf opposition to them, I recommend the artificial ear.

For ci and the hearie cultures drive for assimilation and its ramifications I recommend Harlan lanes the mask of benevolence..

Here is a question for you

Why do the majority of professionals today in the ci industry insist the child or baby who is implanted NOT learn and acquire sign? So that the Deaf baby will "not revert back to being Deaf"
There has been minimal movement within the profession regarding sign, I grant.
But the standard is above. As of now



Start your education in this with that question.
You may learn something

When a cultures wishes are ignored. When a cultures language is attacked, strangled by the attempt and success of denying its acquisition to the cultures young, when instead holes are drilled into our babies heads for the goal to have them hearie and speak...
The tools you dismiss as glorified hearing aids to us, are some thing all together different.
And the fact you can't or won't see that is certainly to me anyway hardly surprising given your posts
Click to expand...
*Headdesk* Seriously, are you buying into Meredith Sugar's or CI Online's propaganda? If the CI allowed full assimulation into the mainstream you would NOT see ALL the problems that you see with CI kids. Do you NOT understand that the effectiveness of CI VARIES HUGELY? Do you ALSO NOT understand that AT BEST the excellent users of CI STILL function as HOH, using ALL the various and sundry accomondations up to and including closed captioned? Have you not seen all the research that says that the CI's effectiveness VARIES?!?!? Even the successful users of CIs STILL require accomondations and deal with ALL the same stuff that HOH (whether functionally or audilogically) kids and people have for hundreds of years! That is NOT assimulation! That's like saying a hearing aid or an FM device can allow a child to assimulate into the mainstream!!!! ALL it IS is a more powerful aid to hearing. People with deaf losses might be able to hear a bit more or might be able to get to HOH listening levels.....and HOH IS NOT hearing or "more mainstream"...... You do realize that assuming that more access to sound/speech = assimulation is VERY audist!
 
deafdyke said:
*Headdesk* Seriously, are you buying into Meredith Sugar's or CI Online's propaganda? If the CI allowed full assimulation into the mainstream you would NOT see ALL the problems that you see with CI kids. Do you NOT understand that the effectiveness of CI VARIES HUGELY? Do you ALSO NOT understand that AT BEST the excellent users of CI STILL function as HOH, using ALL the various and sundry accomondations up to and including closed captioned? Have you not seen all the research that says that the CI's effectiveness VARIES?!?!? Even the successful users of CIs STILL require accomondations and deal with ALL the same stuff that HOH (whether functionally or audilogically) kids and people have for hundreds of years! That is NOT assimulation! That's like saying a hearing aid or an FM device can allow a child to assimulate into the mainstream!!!! ALL it IS is a more powerful aid to hearing. People with deaf losses might be able to hear a bit more or might be able to get to HOH listening levels.....and HOH IS NOT hearing or "more mainstream"...... You do realize that assuming that more access to sound/speech = assimulation is VERY audist!
Click to expand...
You are arguing a completely different thing than Hoichi is talking about.

It's beginning to get embarrassing.
 
It has been a while since the MAG (the OP - Original Poster) has been back. It was suggested that I lock this thread for now... if the OP wishes to reopen this thread... please inbox me to let me know.

Thanks.
 
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