Circumcision..

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Audiofuzzy

Audiofuzzy

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Today on TV I happened upon some Jewish show about Mohel, and performing circumcision.
One thing that struck me dumbfounded is that supposedly Abraham as a sign of conevant with God choose to cut off the foreskin off his penis.

For God's sake why would someone actually think God would like a piece of strange man's foreskin, in the first place?
Doesn't human body contains more attractive body parts, for example ......a littlest toe! ????
if I was God i don't think i would be overjoyed being offered a piece of skin from where a bodily fluids come out..

I think only a male could come up with this idea. Obviously.


:dunno:

Fuzzy

ps For the record, I find Jewish religion and Jews fascinating. I could be Jewish. But this... :ugh2:

I also find it very sexist.
Why only men offer, and women doesn't? (Not that I know if they do, but I doubt it- I never heard of any female body parts offered to God.) Would our offering be insignificant? meaningless??

....maybe women don't offer because we have too much of a common sense, and esthetic one as well......???
 
the real purpose of circumcision regardless of religion is hygienic so therefore parent does not have to handle the private parts while it is wee toddler eh.. but as he grow up over time, his genital stay clean free of germs and bacteria whatever..

I had a friend who never had one till he's in 40's and he hates cleaning it so he went in for one and it's whole lotta painful for him.
 
oh by the way, the topic on circumcision has been beaten to death.. do a search on AD to see several threads and even one, a odd news about it.
 
The benefits of circumcision has been debated. The advantages are that it reduces the risk of STD transmission (notably HIV), requires less cleaning, and possibly less risk of UTI (not completely proven yet). Also, it prevents any problems that may come with circumscision.

However, there are men who argued that it was wrong and inhumane, saying that it's against nature and that the foreskin serve as a natural lubricant for penis and circumcision reduces the natural sensitivity.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Today on TV I happened upon some Jewish show about Mohel, and performing circumcision.
One thing that struck me dumbfounded is that supposedly Abraham as a sign of conevant with God choose to cut off the foreskin off his penis.

For God's sake why would someone actually think God would like a piece of strange man's foreskin, in the first place?
Doesn't human body contains more attractive body parts, for example ......a littlest toe! ????
if I was God i don't think i would be overjoyed being offered a piece of skin from where a bodily fluids come out.
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Well - the belief, scripturally speaking, is that God asked for this as the sign of the covenant between him and his people - in many senses, the way a wedding ring is exchanged as a sign of the covenant between two spouses. If you think about it, the penis can be seen as a vessel of the human life force, and to sacrifice a bit of it is indeed a significant way to show dedication to God. (I think more of the parental dedication to God - not of the actual 8 day old child himself.)

Genesis 17:10-12 (New American Standard Bible)

10"(A)This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.

11"And (B)you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.

12"And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants.
Audiofuzzy said:
I also find it very sexist. Why only men offer, and women doesn't?
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You're probably correct. This took place at a time in Jewish history when women were not held in particularly high regard. To make a sacrifice to God, one naturally would want to sacrifice the best of the best, and woman just wouldn't have been considered to have anything fitting to sacrifice for the most part. (This is a bit of an oversimplification, but I think it makes the point.)

Paul later discussed the practice as a meaningless symbol. This is a bit harder to explain. Paul felt that many Jewish people had lost thier relationship with God, but continued to adhere the the "laws" and thought this somehow saved them. Paul wanted to express to them that it was the covenant or relationship with God that mattered most, and that adhering to laws like the law of circumcision held no meaning if there was not also a relationship with God. Paul also opened the way for those who were not Jewish to become followers of Christ as well. Up until this point, people believed that to follow Christ, one must first be a Jew or become a Jew. Paul believed the Christian message was accessible to anyone wh desired it.

Romans 2:24-26 (New American Standard Bible)

24For "(A)THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES (B)BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.

25For indeed circumcision is of value if you (C)practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, (D)your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

26(E)So if (F)the uncircumcised man (G)keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
 
At this point, there just doesn't seem to me to be any compelling medical evidence to support circumcision. The cleanliness issue is just silly to me. As a woman I was taught how to keep myself clean - I find it a bit insulting to men to suggest they cannot also be taught simple hygenic measures.

I could not dream of having a son circumcised. It seems barbaric and cruel. Even when performed in hospitals, it is done with no anethesia, often requiring the infant to be strapped down to a board to keep him still.
 
I found interesting link

Jews against circumcision.

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

We are a group of educated and enlightened Jews who realize that the barbaric, primitive, torturous, and mutilating practice of circumcision has no place in modern Judaism.

Rabbi Moses Maimonides himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation.

Jews are some of the smartest people in the world. We are 1/3rd of 1% of the population, yet we hold 33% of Nobel prizes. We are smart enough to understand that mutilating a little boys' penis is not an acceptable practice in modern times.

Do not be afraid to be the first to change and lead your parents, family and community into modern times! Your primary responsibility is to take care of your son, not to satisfy other people’s need for tradition. Your community will eventually see the light.

What does tradition mean to you? Does it mean putting your son's welfare second? Do you blindly follow tradition even when it maims and mutilates?

Do not be afraid to think for yourself. Circumcision is barbaric and you are a better parent for not mutilating your son’s penis.

Do not be afraid to question tradition rather than blindly accepting it. Circumcision continues in our faith because of indoctrination, fear of change, and so-called tradition. Remember that our religious leaders are the products of this same indoctrination.

If you were told to circumcise your daughter’s vulva, would you blindly obey? Or would you question the order and choose to protect your daughter? Shouldn’t we treat our boys with the same consideration and respect?

Do not be afraid of divine punishment. God did not mandate circumcision. In the original version of the Torah, the book of J, circumcision is not even mentioned. Fallible men devised circumcision as a way to curb masturbation. Even Rabbi Maimonides acknowledged this fact.
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http://www.foreskin.org/fleiss.htm

Western countries have no tradition of circumcision. In antiquity, the expansion of the Greek and Roman Empires brought Westerners into contact with the peoples of the Middle East, some of whom marked their children with circumcision and other sexual mutilations. To protect these children, the Greeks and Romans passed laws forbidding circumcision.[1] Over the centuries, the Catholic Church has passed many similar laws.[2,3] The traditional Western response to circumcision has been revulsion and indignation.

Circumcision started in America during the masturbation hysteria of the Victorian Era, when a few American doctors circumcised boys to punish them for masturbating. Victorian doctors knew very well that circumcision denudes, desensitizes, and disables the penis. Nevertheless, they were soon claiming that circumcision cured epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, elephantiasis, tuberculosis, eczema, bed-wetting, hip-joint disease, fecal incontinence, rectal prolapse, wet dreams, hernia, headaches, nervousness, hysteria, poor eyesight, idiocy, mental retardation, and insanity.[4]

In fact, no procedure in the history of medicine has been claimed to cure and prevent more diseases than circumcision. As late as the 1970s, leading American medical textbooks still advocated routine circumcision as a way to prevent masturbation.[5] The antisexual motivations behind an operation that entails cutting off part of the penis are obvious.
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How Common Is Circumcision?
Circumcision is almost unheard of in Europe, South America, and non-Muslim Asia. In fact, only 10 to 15 percent of men throughout the world are circumcised. The vast majority of whom are Muslim.[29] The neonatal circumcision rate in the western US has now fallen to 34.2 percent.[30] This relatively diminished rate may surprise American men born during the era when nearly 90 percent of baby boys were circumcised automatically, with or without their parents' consent.
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Circumcision is unhygienic and unhealthy: One of the most common myths about circumcision is that it makes the penis cleaner and easier to take care of. This is not true. Eyes without eyelids would not be cleaner; neither would a penis without its foreskin. The artificially externalized glans and meatus of the circumcised penis are constantly exposed to abrasion and dirt, making the circumcised penis, in fact, more unclean. The loss of the protective foreskin leaves the urinary tract vulnerable to invasion by bacterial and viral pathogens.
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MorriganTait said:
At this point, there just doesn't seem to me to be any compelling medical evidence to support circumcision. The cleanliness issue is just silly to me. As a woman I was taught how to keep myself clean - I find it a bit insulting to men to suggest they cannot also be taught simple hygenic measures.

I could not dream of having a son circumcised. It seems barbaric and cruel. Even when performed in hospitals, it is done with no anethesia, often requiring the infant to be strapped down to a board to keep him still.
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Yes I know.

I can´t see the sense why the male have to cut because of "clean & healthy", not female. Huh?

I can´t see the difference between cut and uncut because uncut men CAN take care of themselves to be clean as women as well because they are being taught how to keep clean themselves.

My hubby & both boys are uncut but they are clean and have no smelly as what the people claim... :roll:
 
In spite of proven and I see most are incorrect. Mine is circumcised or call cut. By saying cut loses sensitity which is not true, mine is very sensitvity and very gratifying as much as uncut. Circumcision is not barbaric or mutilating. And there are many uncut I have seen, man, it smell horrified. I'm happy to be circumcise. Yes, the reason God established it for the jews for covenant with God. But Paul said since Christ has been risen, neither circumcision or un circumcise will enter heaven. When u received christ in ur heart, u r circumcised, not of the flesh, but heart as a covenant. To me, arguing about circumcision or not, is pointless. And again, it is not barbaric or mutilating. I don't see my penis is been mutilating and my sex drive is more gratifying as uncircumcised. I'm happy and satisfy I have. Smile
 
In the original version of the Torah, the book of J, circumcision is not even mentioned.
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Thank you for your replies.
I didn't meant to start "pro and cons" of circumcision, but discuss just the fact that when you look at it as a bystander, the act of cutting off an excess skin seem pointless in ever way.
Even more ridiculous seem to me that actually God would ask for this.
I have hard time acceptiing anything that is written in the Bible anyway cos' look how many interpretations of the one and only book.

So I believe it was man's idea. Perverse idea.
Probably Abraham just wanted to excite himself in preverse way.
(sado-mach- religious)

Fuzzy
 
I understand how u feel, and sometimes we have to becareful how we view of God. We are humans and have so much limitations of every kinds. There is a lot of negativity about God as a lot of think of that. But really He isn't that way. There are times we don't understand. We look at the negatives and dwell in our thoughts than the positives which is most who God is. One that covers all is by sending His Son Jesus to take our place (sins) upon Himself to lead us our everlasting Home in Glory. That's the key plan what He gave us. The world is full of challenging. I have not heard any complaints about their own penis of circumstances. Thers so much pointless argument. And their are both side of positive and begative in both ways. Good thing u point out this issue. Smile
 
Well of course religious ritual gives the circumcision certain purpose that is holy and spiritual, I only ask for crissake why penis..
somebody said because it represents life.. really? it also produces urine, yuck.
as for representing life -why not masturbate and offer the seed itself? why mutilate?

Fuzzy
 
Well, My doctor told me that having boys circumcision prevents penile cancer in adult men, easy to clean, don't have to pull the tip of the penis up to wash fully, for those who are non-circumcision. Also, reduce the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, prevent infection or problems in future lifetime when they're in their adults.

Both of my boys had their circumcision done since birth and it only lasted 10 to 14 days for the skin to heal. I rather to take that than having my boys have some type of infections, or problems or penile cancer or sexually transmitted diseases in the later adult life.

It's really up to each parents what choice they decide, but nobody is wrong for having their boys circumcision or not.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I think only a male could come up with this idea.
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And your point is . . . ??

By the way, it was God's idea, not a "male's" idea like a typical woman would think (if one actually could).
 
And when we portray God we portray him as....... man, woman or both??

Whose idea it was to declare God is male ????

Fuzzy
 
And your point is . . . ??QUOTE]

As you can yourself see sweetie, you can't even understand what I am talking about so.... go back watching Tweety.. leave intelligent discussion to others.

Fuzzy
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Audiofuzzy said:
And when we portray God we portray him as....... man, woman or both??
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When I talk about God I usually say "He" out of habit, but I prefer to think of God as being beyond simple gender distinctions.

Audiofuzzy said:
Whose idea it was to declare God is male ????
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In some religious traditions, gods are male, female, animal. Not sure who decided the "God of Abraham" was specifically male. I don't personally agree.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
As you can yourself see sweetie, you can't even understand what I am talking about so.... go back watching Tweety
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:laugh2: I can't help it, I found that line pretty funny. :laugh2:
 
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