CI--Deaf or Hearing?

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drphil said:
GrendelQ: Welcome to my select group of NON militant deafs -even hearing persons are welcome. NO exams/no special enquiries required=just a smile-now and then.

Hope this survives before being locked!

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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:ty: drphil! Although I suspect I'll be a bit militant Deaf if need be at some point in the future :laugh2:.
 
If we maintain the status quo, more Deaf schools will be closed.
 
GrendelQ: Hope that catastrophe ( regressing to deaf militants-even with the special hearing section)doesn't occur for 150 years!

Apparently none of this exists which leads to the obvious-why "get your toe nails upset"?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
This is the statement that began the questioning regarding whose community:

You may not care what DC thinks, I happen to be interested. DC seems to have strong feelings that Marsden's and Lane's ideas on 'Deaf Militants' don't reflect what a Deaf militant is today. I'd like to know what she thinks defines a Deaf militant, and what role they and their actions play in our community, in our society.
Beo explained to me that he thinks we need this type of person actively engaging dialogue in public office.

"Our', used as inclusive of everyone, regardless of hearing status is far too broad a category. The role and actions of the Deaf militant is different to various groups. To the hearing, to the hoh, to the deaf, to the Deaf...all of these communities will percieve the role of the Deaf militant to be different, and their actions will have a different impact on the various communities. In order to answer such a question, it is necessary to identify which group you are referring to. "Our society" is most often used to reference the population of the United States, or the population of Canada, or the population of any given country. It is all inclusive. The advantages of having a Deaf militant in a political position will not affect the vast majority of "our society" as an inclusive group, and therefore the role he/she would play and the effects of their actions would be minimal, if any at all. However, if "our community, our society" is used as a reference to the deaf, who do not identify as a cultural, linguistic minority, the benefits, the role, and the effects of actions would relate to those things that directly affect the deaf in the way of social barriers. This would be a limited benefit and role. To the hoh and late deafened who have reached close to a retirment age, and are not concerned with educational issues or employment issues, again, the benefit would fall between the hearing and the deaf, and would exist on a continuum from none at all to limited. For the Deaf, as a cultural and linguistic minority, the role would be a major one, and the benefit would be great. For the Deaf, we are talking about not just barriers and accommodations in a limited arena, but every aspect of their life. To have a representative in a position of power, as a Deaf militant, would validate their very existence as worthy of attention regarding their needs, their values, their traditions, and their language.

So, just to say "our" as all encompasing, clouds the very issue and the very point that Beo was making. One cannot answer a question requiring a specific answer that is framed so broadly. Since the poster refused to specify a specific group and simply kept repeating "our" the question was rendered moot.
 
Beowulf said:
If we maintain the status quo, more Deaf schools will be closed.
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Exactly. And a Deaf militant in a politically powerful position would broach this issue from a Deaf perspective. Thus the benefit, the role, and the effects of the actions would, as I said prior, provide a great deal more to the Deaf community and the role would be much more extended and involved than it would for any other segment. Who would this benefit? The hearing? Not at all, or perhaps minimally as an indirect consequence. The HOH or the late deafened not concerned with educational and psycho-social developmental issues. The effects would be the same, basically, as for the hearing. For the deaf...limited benefit.

The whole motivation for having a Deaf militant in a position of politcal power is to benefit the Deaf. Again, "our" used as claimed, is simply too inclusive to be a reasonable catagory for determining role, action, and benefit.
 
drphil said:
GrendelQ: Hope that catastrophe ( regressing to deaf militants-even with the special hearing section)doesn't occur for 150 years!

Apparently none of this exists which leads to the obvious-why "get your toe nails upset"?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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To further clarify the basic issue surrounding the discussion today, the association of "regression" and "catastophe" as applied to Deaf culture and it's more militant members, is patronizing, and intended as an insult. Perhaps some are comfortable with not pointing out the audist attitudes and the denigration of the Deaf experience...I am not. We will never succeed in reversing damaging, prejudicial, and superior attitudes such as this by ignoring it, or by justifying it. We will only succeed by speaking out against such blatant audism.
 
drphil said:
GrendelQ: Welcome to my select group of NON militant deafs -even hearing persons are welcome. NO exams/no special enquiries required=just a smile-now and then.
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drphil said:
GrendelQ: Hope that catastrophe ( regressing to deaf militants-even with the special hearing section)doesn't occur for 150 years!

Apparently none of this exists which leads to the obvious-why "get your toe nails upset"?
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See, this is what I don't get. The majority of us don't identify as being deaf militants. Why do you continue to label us as such? You clearly do, because you supposedly have a "select group of non-militant deaf". To be Deaf, or a part of this forum, or anything Deaf-related, there are no "exams or special inquiries". You can just be Deaf, period. You're just being patronizing here, and it's NOT APPRECIATED !!!!!!!!! Same goes for this so-called catastrophe of supposed regressing to becoming a deaf militant -- you're just being flat-out rude and patronizing, yet AGAIN. My goodness. I really find you offensive now.
 
AlleyCat said:
See, this is what I don't get. The majority of us don't identify as being deaf militants. Why do you continue to label us as such? You clearly do, because you supposedly have a "select group of non-militant deaf". To be Deaf, or a part of this forum, or anything Deaf-related, there are no "exams or special inquiries". You can just be Deaf, period. You're just being patronizing here, and it's NOT APPRECIATED !!!!!!!!! Same goes for this so-called catastrophe of supposed regressing to becoming a deaf militant -- you're just being flat-out rude and patronizing, yet AGAIN. My goodness. I really find you offensive now.
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See? That is the whole point. That type of offensive behavior should not be tolerated nor supported.
 
Beowulf said:
If we maintain the status quo, more Deaf schools will be closed.
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Would be a very sad thing. Fortunately, my daughter's Deaf school has been growing and expanding these past few years. And several of the big Deaf schools have sent out contingents to observe and review our school's classes, in an effort to develop similar programs (I think Ohio School for the Deaf had a team visiting classes, I gave permission for them to videotape my daughter and there was also another school whose name escapes me). We just added a huge new building and already getting tight.

We are finding ourselves in some significant battles, though, with some surprising ineligibility for govt grants due to the nature of the school's philosophy (bi-bi). Fortunately, there are some amazing d/Deaf powerhouses onboard and taking action, who were instrumental in some significant pro-Deaf legislature (and at least one veteran of the DPN protests), including those that some might consider to be 'Deaf militants.' In the positive way that I described it and the way you seem to see it.
 
GrendelQ said:
Would be a very sad thing. Fortunately, my daughter's Deaf school has been growing and expanding these past few years. And several of the big Deaf schools have sent out contingents to observe and review our school's classes, in an effort to develop similar programs (I think Ohio School for the Deaf had a team visiting classes, I gave permission for them to videotape my daughter and there was also another school whose name escapes me). We just added a huge new building and already getting tight.

We are finding ourselves in some significant battles, though, with some surprising ineligibility for govt grants due to the nature of the school's philosophy (bi-bi). Fortunately, there are some amazing d/Deaf powerhouses onboard and taking action, who were instrumental in some significant pro-Deaf legislature (and at least one veteran of the DPN protests), including those that some might consider to be 'Deaf militants.' In the positive way that I described it and the way you seem to see it.
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Do you have any numbers on increased enrollment and/or improved retention for this particular school?
 
You may have omitted a reference when you posted this, my quote:
You may not care what DC thinks, I happen to be interested. DC seems to have strong feelings that Marsden's and Lane's ideas on 'Deaf Militants' don't reflect what a Deaf militant is today. I'd like to know what she thinks defines a Deaf militant, and what role they and their actions play in our community, in our society.
Beo explained to me that he thinks we need this type of person actively engaging dialogue in public office.
Click to expand...

Now, you complain that I just kept repeating "our" when you asked whose society/community I meant
...
So, just to say "our" as all encompasing, clouds the very issue and the very point that Beo was making. One cannot answer a question requiring a specific answer that is framed so broadly. Since the poster refused to specify a specific group and simply kept repeating "our" the question was rendered moot.
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No, that's just plain wrong, as you so often are. I responded once by saying ours, and then twice with the following language. You just keep insisting that I choose one, Deaf or Hearing. And that's not what I mean. I'm not talking about someone who has a role only in Hearing society, or only in Deaf society. I'm talking about someone who has a role in the communities and societies in which my daughter interacts and learns, in which laws are made that impact those who are deaf, and resources are allocated.

When I said our community, our society, I meant you, me, everyone on this thread, on AD. People who have an interest in rights and advocacy for those who are deaf. That's our community, our society.
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GrendelQ said:
Would be a very sad thing. Fortunately, my daughter's Deaf school has been growing and expanding these past few years. And several of the big Deaf schools have sent out contingents to observe and review our school's classes, in an effort to develop similar programs (I think Ohio School for the Deaf had a team visiting classes, I gave permission for them to videotape my daughter and there was also another school whose name escapes me). We just added a huge new building and already getting tight.

We are finding ourselves in some significant battles, though, with some surprising ineligibility for govt grants due to the nature of the school's philosophy (bi-bi). Fortunately, there are some amazing d/Deaf powerhouses onboard and taking action, who were instrumental in some significant pro-Deaf legislature (and at least one veteran of the DPN protests), including those that some might consider to be 'Deaf militants.' In the positive way that I described it and the way you seem to see it.
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Sigh...The Ohio School for the Deaf uses an oral approach to educating children. It is not a Deaf school.
 
drphil said:
GrendelQ: Hope that catastrophe ( regressing to deaf militants-even with the special hearing section)doesn't occur for 150 years!

Apparently none of this exists which leads to the obvious-why "get your toe nails upset"?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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:laugh2: I suppose you are being tongue in cheek to drive a few who have been having at you over the edge, but I don't see there being any 'catastrophe' in my impending 'regression'.

If you are referring to the following contradiction from this morning, in her defense, I suspect Jillio was just a bit sleepy when trying to make her argument against there being such a thing. From the past few pages, I'd guess she believes in the concept, but hasn't decided if it's a good thing or a bad thing to be a Deaf militant.

jillio said:
She is very well known in the Deaf community, and she is a deaf militant, not was. She is still alive and well.
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jillio said:
Drphil; re-read. You are still very confused about what is posted. And you have yet to define a "Deaf militant." I know of no "deaf militants. After all this time and instruction, and you still can't get the cultural designation correct.:roll:
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I'll have to put some thought into remedying the toe nail issue.
 
Beowulf said:
But are there any deafies in the legislative bodies? Not a single one. I am dead set against hearing people making rules and standards for deaf people, so I guess that makes me a militant.
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Im seriously thinkin of running. But it would take some underhanded tactics. (Think FDR.)
 
Beowulf said:
Sigh...The Ohio School for the Deaf uses an oral approach to educating children. It is not a Deaf school.
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Yes, TC, I think, but they are observing TLC's bi-bi approach, which may mean impending changes.

Edit: actually, looks like Bott's right, may be full ASL, not TC.
 
GrendelQ said:
You may have omitted a reference when you posted this, my quote:


Now, you complain that I just kept repeating "our" when you asked whose society/community I meant

No, that's just plain wrong, as you so often are. I responded once by saying ours, and then twice with the following language. You just keep insisting that I choose one, Deaf or Hearing. And that's not what I mean. I'm not talking about someone who has a role only in Hearing society, or only in Deaf society. I'm talking about someone who has a role in the communities and societies in which my daughter interacts and learns, in which laws are made that impact those who are deaf, and resources are allocated.
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And again, that is far too inclusive, thus rendering the original question you asked moot.
 
Beowulf said:
Sigh...The Ohio School for the Deaf uses an oral approach to educating children. It is not a Deaf school.
Click to expand...

The last I checked, they were using more of a TC approach. Anyone applying for a position there has to undergo a test of their signing ability. I would like to see them go full bi-bi, though. But I agree...an oral school is not a Deaf school.
 
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