Canada's health care collapsing...not sustainable says doctors

Foxrac said:
Oh interesting, it sounds like good competition on between public and private.

I think UK has private health care if anyone dislike NHS, I would goes with private health care if I have enough money to get private insurance.
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point is - we should NOT be required to pay for universal health care otherwise how else are we gonna be able to afford private insurance?
 
Jiro said:
point is - we should NOT be required to pay for universal health care otherwise how are we gonna be able to afford private insurance?
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Get a good job, I guess.
 
Foxrac said:
Get a good job, I guess.
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we already do despite of current state of economy but Obamacare is going to kill us by mandating insurance. This is harmful for small business owners.
 
also, if you really read the bill it says that If you lose your private insurance carrier, you will HAVE to get the public plan, And that you are NOT allowed to buy another private insurance. Don’t forget, if you lose your private insurance--for any reason--under this "health reform" bill will demand you pay a penalty of 2.5% of your income to the IRS for not having insurance, which forces you to consider going under the public option plan, all govt controlled.
 
kokonut said:
also, if you really read the bill it says that If you lose your private insurance carrier, you will HAVE to get the public plan, And that you are NOT allowed to buy another private insurance. Don’t forget, if you lose your private insurance--for any reason--under this "health reform" bill will demand you pay a penalty of 2.5% of your income to the IRS for not having insurance, which forces you to consider going under the public option plan, all govt controlled.
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It is so wrong. I think the U.S. citizen should be given an option to look for and choose another private insurance when they do not want a public option.
 
Jiro said:
funny thing is... Americans get medications from Canada or travel to Canada to get medication... I guess something's not right in USA either :dunno:
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It's because Canadian Rx medicines is cheaper than here. You can get the similar thing for LOT less than here in the US. Many elderly people and people with health issues cross the border to get them from WA to BC.
 
Royale said:
I am a Canadian and I am not happy with my country's socialized health care system.
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I'm pretty OK with our healthcare. I mean, it's nice knowing that if I was ever seriously injured in a collision I would be hauled to a hospital regardless of having insurance.

There are some faults in our system, there's no doubt about that, but no way will we ever create the "perfect" system because there's no such thing as perfect.
 
Royale and loghead, are ya'll in different provinces? Most of the people I know are in Ontario. Maybe the care varies by region?
 
There's no such thing as a perfect healthcare system.
 
Banjo said:
There's no such thing as a perfect healthcare system.
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Yeah, I agree on this one. I've gone to the link that the OP provided and as near as I can tell, doctors in Canada don't want to do away with the Canadian Health Care but they do want to reform it so it will provide better service to Canadians who are on this healthcare system.

I do not think we will have a Canadian style health caresystem because as near as I can tell, it will be on a federal level rather than on a state level. I'm sure even if we get Universal Healthcare, there will be problems with it. Trying to improve things for people is an endless process because there is no such thing as a perfect system.
 
Also, it is unconstitutional to force people to buy health insurance (private or govt). Govt cannot force citizens to buy certain things since that's outlined in the Commerce Clause. What Congress is doing is committing an illegal act by adding a provision in the bill that forces Americans to buy health insurance when many choose not to.

Illegal Health Reform
washingtonpost.com
 
This isn't about perfection. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence would already see that. What this is about is the usurpation of individual's right to choose. What this is about is that we don't have the money to do this. What this is about is intellectual dishonesty and the lies about what this "health reform" is about. It isn't about health, it's about control.

What we need are support for Health Savings Account, catastrophic health insurance, tort reform, lawsuit cap, and so on.

Here's something interesting:

The goal of insurance is to spread risk. The health “insurance” most Americans have — and many can’t afford — not only pays for disasters, but also pays for everyday medical expenses. This creates negative externalities just like at the restaurant table.

Flood insurance only pays in catastrophes — not every time you mop the floor. If it did, you’d probably waste a lot more water.

“If the tax exemption for employer-provided medical care and Medicare and Medicaid had never been enacted, the insurance market for medical care would probably have developed as other insurance markets have,” said the late economist Milton Friedman in the winter 2001 edition of Public Interest. “The typical form of medical insurance would have been catastrophic insurance.”

“Claims would be rare and large, as in fire insurance. Premiums would be low, as in fire insurance,” said economist Arnold Kling.

But even ignoring the allocation problem, there’s little reason to believe government reforms can reduce costs.
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The last major federal involvement in health care was the 2003 Medicare Modernization Act. Originally promised to cost less than $400 billion during the course of 10 years, by early 2005 the estimate of the 10-year cost had increased to $1.2 trillion — three times as much.

While individuals shopped for the cheapest effective drugs, the federal government explicitly promised not to use its bargaining power to lower the cost of prescription medication.

There’s no reason to believe reforms under Obama will be any different.

Former Louisiana Congressman Billy Tauzin — who co-sponsored the 2003 act — has since become the President of PhRMA, the largest pharmaceutical
lobbying group. PhRMA budgeted $150 million for TV commercials supporting President Obama’s reforms, and Tauzin has been quoted in both the August 4 LA Times and the August 5 New York Times as being very enthusiastic about the deals he has struck with Obama.
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Daily Reveille - The Devil's Advocate: Incentives, previous reforms raise health care costs

Name one thing in the federal govt that was successful in reducing waste and over-spending (or fraud) when it comes to social programs. For example, we lose $50 to $60 billion dollars a year to Medicare fraud. Now, name one social program (e.g. social security, medicare, medicaid, health care, etc.. etc...) that was successful in reducing wasteful spending and fraud. Name ONE. And ya'll want to give Obama's version a try when already Team Obama was $2 trillion off their budget deficit estimates?
Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion | U.S. | Reuters

Have we not already learned the mistakes of trying to run Medicare and underestimated the cost by $1.2 trillion dollars?

Trust me. What Obama's proposing will not save us money. Rather, it'll just cost us more and our kids and their kids and their kids will be the one paying for it. Just like a bad Ponzi scheme, somebody at the end will get the crap.
 
kokonut said:
Liebling, it's not about whether they like it. Sure, they like it because they don't pay for the services and care. This is a matter whether Canada (her provinces) can continue with their health care system when it's already becoming a burgeoning problem and taxing the system already. It's the doctors and economists realizing the impending problem coming at them fast.

http://www.institutmolinari.org/pubs/note20092en.pdf
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Actually the Canadian system and other country´s system has problems, but the USA has more problems.
 
kokonut said:
also, if you really read the bill it says that If you lose your private insurance carrier, you will HAVE to get the public plan, And that you are NOT allowed to buy another private insurance. Don’t forget, if you lose your private insurance--for any reason--under this "health reform" bill will demand you pay a penalty of 2.5% of your income to the IRS for not having insurance, which forces you to consider going under the public option plan, all govt controlled.
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No, we are free to choose what we want... Yes, we can get private insurance if we want to.
 
Loghead said:
I'm pretty OK with our healthcare. I mean, it's nice knowing that if I was ever seriously injured in a collision I would be hauled to a hospital regardless of having insurance.

There are some faults in our system, there's no doubt about that, but no way will we ever create the "perfect" system because there's no such thing as perfect.
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Exactly, universal healthcare may not be perfect but it is better than in the USA. You don´t have to mortgage your house to pay your hosptial bills if you get sick.

You still get treatment even if you did not have any money.

Banjo said:
There's no such thing as a perfect healthcare system.
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Exactly!
 
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