born hearing and received a ci. ci friendly pease

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samantha kennel

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my son failed the newborn hearing screening in2004 and had a mild to moderate loss. He recieved his hearing aides at 6 weeks.we found out that his hearing dropped to severe to profound at 14 months old. reveived first implant at 16 months. The ? I have is that is all deaf community against implanting children if they were born hearing. I saw the web site cochlear wars and it is very one sided. I would like opionions to know if my son will ever fit in the deaf conmmunity.Thanks for the replys.... :wave: :wave:
 
No, not everywhere.
Do a recent search on Greema, DeafDyke and Lillysdad. They are discussing it.

Anyway, you'll find excellent information here.
Cochlear Wars is very onesided. It is owened by Matthew S. Moore. He also owns another messageboard that has the same view. (I've been there..)

For myself, the Deaf community here in Norway is very small. With our daughter now speaking more and more, sign has gone to the background, especially for me.
We also noticed now that her language improves faster when she's exposed to 1 language (Dutch only as opposed to Norwegian and Dutch) and no sign. (Every time we go to Holland we see the same development-increase) So, we decided that since she's comfortable using speech, she will go 60% to a hearing kindergarten, and 40% to a hearing/deaf one.
This will mean that the little connection we have with deaf people will be even less, even though we made good friends that we will continue to see.

When there's a strong Deaf culture in your town, or close-by, you could benefit from that and visit regulary. The experience of LillysDad is probably on the extreme side. But it would require you and your son the learn and keep up sign. And I can see from my own experience that that is a lot of work.
The choice is - how are you going to spend the available time with your child? Speech only or speech and sign?

Browse and have fun! :wave:
 
good luck, myself i have ci, i have recieved it 10 months ago, and really enjoy it.

i would suggest this thread to go into the hearing aid and ci thread. to avoid some people bashing this.
 
Samantha, I too am very concerned about my daughter being involved in and accepted by the deaf community. I have had a couple of negative (one very negative) experiences. There have been other experiences that I have not mentioned here because they were isolated incidents involving people whe nthey are alone. I never bothered to bring them up because they were one or two people. I decide that I would not pass judgement on the community as a whole due to the actions of these people.
To sum up your question, yes. She can/will be involved and accepted by the deaf community, if she is exposed to it and is open to it. I feel an important way to ensure my daughters involvement is for Lilly, my wife and I to learn ASL. We will tackle this at a later date. Right now we are ficusing on speech first. I want speech to be her primary language.
When referring to the deaf community, you must look at it like any other community. There are mean peopple and idiots in every community. Just ignore them and concentrate your efforts on those that you enjoy spending time with.
I too am new to the deaf community. I never really got interested in it until I started researching cochlear implants for Lilly. That was about a year and a half ago. I really enjoy it. Yeah you get the (as I call) deaf militants that can get in your face and be very abrasive. But screw em. I like to stir it up with them on occasion.
I have said this to other parents of kids with CI here but please feel free to email me with any questions/conmments/comcerns or anything else you might want to share. From what I have gathered, the majority of people that have a CI that are "rejected" by the deaf community are those that are not open to the deaf community. If I am wrong, someone please feel free to corect me, but the majority are open to people with CI as long as the person has not turned thier back to other deaf people.
 
I would like opionions to know if my son will ever fit in the deaf conmmunity.
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I think he will if you equipt him properly. That means, starting exposure to Sign and Deaf culture fairly early, not demonizing Sign, and more promoting developing his oral skills as a good skill to have, rather then as a "gotta have so that he can assimunlate into the hearing world" sort of thing.
I know that Coaclear's site says that their users are evenly divided between oral and TCers.
Parents should be openminded about things like Sign usage. ....Look on it as something fun and something that could help your kid, rather then as something "speshal needs" ....Even if your kid does OK with picking up speech and language, chances are very real that he'll have significent social issues. ASL can really help in that department, both by giving him some access to the deaf-world and as an icebreaker for hearing people. A lot of hearies want to learn Sign.
Are your son's oral skills coming along OK? What kind of educational program is he enrolled in? Maybe a good idear would be to enroll him in a educational program for ASL users too! Don't just automaticly assume that b/c your son has decent oral skills, he should be totally and completely mainstreamed. Be openminded. Mainstreaming might be a good thing, but it might not....you gotta experiament.
Also, join the American Society for Deaf Children.....they are supportive of ALL methods of communication....matter of fact, I've never seen a post or anything like that demonizing oral speech.....which is more then you can say for AG Bell (I remmy an article in Volta Voices by some speech language pathologist, who was ranting and raving about the possibilty that California would require all teachers of the Deaf, to be fluent in Sign.....she was mad b/c the CI would make Sign obsolete!?!?!?!)
 
:gpost:
Samantha, Lillys dad will make a most excellent mentor and Cloggy can guide you from afar, so to say! And you are posting under the right topic -- CIs and HAs -- I have been reading up on these threads since May and they have completely turned my opinion of CIs completely around! I am hoping and praying that those that are still anti-CIs will wake up and change their opinion too!

Lillys dad: From what I have gathered, the majority of people that have a CI that are "rejected" by the deaf community are those that are not open to the deaf community. If I am wrong, someone please feel free to corect me, but the majority are open to people with CI as long as the person has not turned thier back to other deaf people.

Lils dad, maybe if you change a word or two in the first sentence above, I would say "... are "rejected" by the deaf community are those that consider themselves "better" than the deaf community..." Does this make any sense? (hmmm, okay -- actually a few words needed changing!) LOL
 
From what I have gathered, the majority of people that have a CI that are "rejected" by the deaf community are those that are not open to the deaf community. If I am wrong, someone please feel free to corect me, but the majority are open to people with CI as long as the person has not turned thier back to other deaf people.
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Yes! FINALLY!!!!!!!! A Hearing parent who actually undies this stuff!!!!!!!!
*High five* to Lilysdad!
Oh, and I think that the Deaf community does seem to be a little more openminded about CIs for kids who've had progressive losses or who were born hearing, and had hearing for at least a few months.
 
Greema, that hit the nail on the head, Thankyou. That claified what I was trying to say.

"a mentor"! I don tknow about that, I'm just sharing my opinion about my experiences so far and trying to help people by sharing info.

D/D, Thank you

I'm gonna be off line for a few days. We are going to Sedona AZ for the weekend. I will talk to eveyone sun/mon.

Have a good weekend everyone :wave:
 
son with ci

dear.deafdyke thank you for your honesty..my son is only 21 months old right now,we know a few signs.like eat,no,more,the basics right now. we are focusing on oral now. he will get preschool at 3 they have school here in ohio for the hearing impaired, he gets free preschool because of his loss. I thought the deaf were more giving to the kids with progressive hearing loss ,he only went 3 months with out sound.It has done wonders for him. he is doing wonderful language right now!! the theropist says he is only 6 months beheind in speech.Thank you Lilly dad I knopw there is someone else who agrees with me and we know as parents we did the right choice for our are babies.. :wave:
 
Greema, excellent point. I mean I've never been looked down on b/c I can hear and speak......b/c I am open to Sign, and I don't think I'm better then Deafies who may not possess oral skills. Some of the stereotypical AG Bell types however.....*shakes head*

my son is only 21 months old right now,we know a few signs.like eat,no,more,the basics right now. we are focusing on oral now. he will get preschool at 3 they have school here in ohio for the hearing impaired, he gets free preschool because of his loss. he is doing wonderful language right now!! the theropist says he is only 6 months beheind in speech.
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YAY!!!! Boy, it would be great if you and Liliysdad represented the new generation of dhh orally educated kids! I wish there were more parents who were open to Sign. Hmmmmm.......it doesn't sound like he needs intensive speech and language. Definitly enroll him in the oral program.....that WILL help him a lot.....but maybe also find a TC program so that he can develop his Sign skills. A six month language gap isn't too bad. I think actually that most dhh kids still require speech therapy. Even those who get caught up in language development, have to work on the mechanics of voice production......and trust me that can be wicked wicked boring. (and you're talking to someone who'd effectively graduated language therapy by kindergarten) Don't get stuck into the trap of thinking that Sign will inhibit speech .....it won't. Your son will progress with both Sign and speech together......Your son has a really really good foundation. BTW....I really really hope you consider joining the American Society for Deaf Children..... it sounds like the perfect organization for you!
 
Liliysdad, and Samantha kennel......here is the link to American Society for Deaf Children: http://www.deafchildren.org/.....Not as "fancy" as AG Bell, but it's more supportive (offically) of alternative things like Cued Speech and Sign. It's position is basicly that dhh kids should NOT be in an eternal speech therapy session, and have the right to a full communication toolbox.
 
deafdyke said:
............ Don't get stuck into the trap of thinking that Sign will inhibit speech .....it won't. .......
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DeafDyke,

I'd love to agree with you... It's fully possible to learn both, but as i mentioned earlier, I do see a difference when my daughter is only getting speech instead of sign and speech. Development of speech will be faster when no sign is used. And development of sign is fast when no speech is used. A combination of the two will NOT give the same development.

For our daughter we proritize speech. However, we WILL keep contact with other deaf/hoh children and adults that use mostly sign, because we want her to keep using it. But effectively, this will only be a small part of her time.

So the advise "not to use" sign is not a trap. Regarding the reason for CI - to be able to communicate by hearing/speech - and the costs for the operation, it is only natural that this investment needs to be "protected". In my opinion sign should be continued to be used if it was in place before CI. If not, communication between the child and the parent stops resulting in a lot of frustration. The sign language will become less and less important as time goes by. For both parties.

I can see the difference between a boy, 1 year older than Lotte, 1 year longer CI, that uses a lot of sign since he is with a deaf family a lot. His signing is excellent. His speech is not.
Even though results differ from person to person, in this case it is obvious that the amount of sign he get's during the day is holding back his speech development.

Our goal is to make sure Lotte get's the most benefit from CI. When this has been established, we will start focussing more on sign again, but not earlier.
 
I agree sign enhances speech. You give them the best of both worlds. Both of my girls have hearing losses (both are moderate to severe ~ one child is 54 DL and the other is 72 DL).

I went to a deaf school, I learned ASL. My speech is great. I wanted the same for my girls. They have been embraced and accepted into the deaf and hearing communities.

I do admit though, my middlest ASL is decreasing only because she isn't as involved. We have a small deaf community here. My littlest she is doing awesome, talking and ASL both. Even at the same time.

So again go with your parental instincts. You are the one that makes the decisions. Whether it goes against everyone's beliefs or not. You have the final say. As far as I can say for myself, I am not bias and the reasons why..

I want what is best for my child.
 
samantha kennel said:
dear.deafdyke thank you for your honesty..my son is only 21 months old right now,we know a few signs.like eat,no,more,the basics right now. we are focusing on oral now. he will get preschool at 3 they have school here in ohio for the hearing impaired, he gets free preschool because of his loss. I thought the deaf were more giving to the kids with progressive hearing loss ,he only went 3 months with out sound.It has done wonders for him. he is doing wonderful language right now!! the theropist says he is only 6 months beheind in speech.Thank you Lilly dad I knopw there is someone else who agrees with me and we know as parents we did the right choice for our are babies.. :wave:
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Just curious. What part of Ohio? My deaf son was educated in ohio. And deafdyke always replies with honesty and intelligence. You won't do wrong by listening to what she has to say!
 
ci..

yeah i agree about deafdyke she is honest and one of the few who is not against ci in kids i think she sees the benefits it has on our kids. I will look into deaf support groups for my son.I get so much info daily and sometimes its overwhelming.He is doing av theropy and doing great. the only problem I dont think he is hearing the shh sound. he is getting tested soon to make sure.this board is great and I enjoy all the info. We live in Akron,Ohio. in stark county they have sound beginnings pre-school for the hoh. and united disibilites has a preschool free of charge.or he can go to the public school ipp preschool. He will be mainstreamed though. :wave:
 
the only problem I dont think he is hearing the shh sound. he is getting tested soon to make sure.this board is great and I enjoy all the info. We live in Akron,Ohio. in stark county they have sound beginnings pre-school for the hoh. and united disibilites has a preschool free of charge.or he can go to the public school ipp preschool. He will be mainstreamed though.
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Samantha...... not hearing some sounds shouldn't be a barrier..... Most dhh kids can't really hear every sound...I couldn't hear the "th" blend when I was growing up, but it's an easy sound to speechread. I remember too, sitting in the speech therapy office, learning how to say the "th" blend.....seems to be a pretty universal experiance for dhh kids.
That's good that he's in AV therapy. Don't overdo it, and do therapy 24/7. If he is making progress, a little therapy will be just as good as constant therapy.......Which BTW, Cloggy was my point! If a kid is not developing spoken English skills with a moderate amount of therapy, then therapy 24/7 isn't going to do much better. If the potentional for developing speech is there, it won't be inhibited by them learning Sign. I really do think that a lot of the "superstars" out there, are from families that make overprogramming a lifestyle. You know......the families that "prep" their kids to attend Harvard or another Ivy League School?

Don't worry if your son doesn't do as well as that......you just gotta make sure he has OK English skills.....and I mean even with decent English skills, he might still have to use a 'terp in school situtions...I remember hearing that a significent percentage of dhh kids need 'terps.
I'd have to say that I think you should adopt a "wait and see" on mainstreaming him. Are you talking about traditional mainstreaming, like regualr classes at a regular school? You're doing good by creating a foundation for mainstreaming, by putting him in preschools that are specificly for his disabilty.....that's awesome! Just don't assume that traditional mainstreaming will be the best for him. Some hoh kids do well in a mainstream sitution with minmal accomondations, but many kids would thrive better in a combonation placement. Even if he's not mainstreamed full time, he can still get the benifit of mainstreaming part time. Just don't assume that mainstreaming is the best thing in the world. I did OK academicly......but I have to say I wish that someone had told my parents that hoh kids don't have to be totally mainstreamed. I really think I could have done better academicly if I'd had a full toolbox and TODs (teachers of the Deaf) who really honestly knew how to teach! ....Like the teachers at my schools were taught to deal with dhh and classicly disabled kids, as "give them minmal assistance, and if they can't suceed with those accomondations, then they are akin to those apathetic kids who clog up LD programs, and will never amount to anything."
 
deafdyke said:
..................Don't overdo it, and do therapy 24/7. If he is making progress, a little therapy will be just as good as constant therapy.......Which BTW, Cloggy was my point! ........
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I know that was your point, and I agree. Exposure to language is the best way for the child to lean. (Or exposure to sign if you want to lean sign.. same for any foreign language..)
My comment to you was regarding sign in combination with speech.

I would never have stopped sign with our daughter. We used sign when she was completely deaf and continued when she got sound. I can't imaging that you would cut the only communication method your child has. Especially at first, when sound are coming in - a completely new experience - communication is vital.
As said, communication with sign decreases as speech increases. It's a natural proces that can be easily compared to learning a new language.

But, again, I agree with you. Therapy is something that comes in addition to life!
 
My comment to you was regarding sign in combination with speech.
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Oh I know......... but whether or not learning Sign takes away from learning speech, is still a matter of debate.....Like do speech firsters have higher verbal IQs then kids who learn both speech and Sign?
Also I wonder if your hypothesis, if true might be corralated to the degree of speech delay. Like it might inhibit speech somewhat if their language delay is more then a year.......but when you get in terms of months, maybe it doesn't matter too much.
Another thing.......I think that hearing families, who demand that their kids learn speech first, need to meet their dhh kids halfway by learning Sign.
I don't think very many hearing families appreciate how much energy it takes for us kids to speak. It's like speaking a forign language.
Hearing families need to meet us halfway. Yes, I know that Sign is hard.....but speech is almost as hard for us. Like we have to remember how to pronounce things, monitor our pitch and volumne (I still get yelled at for talking too loud sometimes!) and things like that.
 
deafdyke said:
Oh I know......... but whether or not learning Sign takes away from learning speech, is still a matter of debate.....Like do speech firsters have higher verbal IQs then kids who learn both speech and Sign?
Also I wonder if your hypothesis, if true might be corralated to the degree of speech delay. Like it might inhibit speech somewhat if their language delay is more then a year.......but when you get in terms of months, maybe it doesn't matter too much.
Another thing.......I think that hearing families, who demand that their kids learn speech first, need to meet their dhh kids halfway by learning Sign.
I don't think very many hearing families appreciate how much energy it takes for us kids to speak. It's like speaking a forign language.
Hearing families need to meet us halfway. Yes, I know that Sign is hard.....but speech is almost as hard for us. Like we have to remember how to pronounce things, monitor our pitch and volumne (I still get yelled at for talking too loud sometimes!) and things like that.
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I agree. There's a whole range of combinations parent-child-sign-speech.
I met parents of which the baby - 8 months - was operated on. This child had no sign established so I guess it will go straight for speech.
For us, Lotte had 1 year with sign (then age 2½) when she got the CI. She communicated with sign with us so we continued that. We believe that a child that can use sign to learn to speak will have a huge advantage compared to a child that needs to learn to speak but is not allowed to sign.
Then there are families of which the child is older and deaf. I agree that when the childs wants communication also with sign, then the parents should definitely do an affort to accomodate for this.
And it is hard to learn a second language, at leat, to learn it fluently. The problem arises when the child learns the language and wants to keep using it. It will be in a lot of contact with sign, so the learning goes fast due to age and exposure. The parents will have problems because they are older and less exposed.

Regarding IQ, that is hardly related to speech / sign.
Give me an IQ-test in chinese and I guarentee you that my IQ will be in the low 10's. And that because I guessed a couple of answers right:lol:

Our strategy was:
NEVER loose communication with our child!
 
CLOGGY: I agree. There's a whole range of combinations parent-child-sign-speech.
I met parents of which the baby - 8 months - was operated on. This child had no sign established so I guess it will go straight for speech.
For us, Lotte had 1 year with sign (then age 2½) when she got the CI. She communicated with sign with us so we continued that. We believe that a child that can use sign to learn to speak will have a huge advantage compared to a child that needs to learn to speak but is not allowed to sign.
Then there are families of which the child is older and deaf. I agree that when the childs wants communication also with sign, then the parents should definitely do an affort to accomodate for this.
And it is hard to learn a second language, at leat, to learn it fluently. The problem arises when the child learns the language and wants to keep using it. It will be in a lot of contact with sign, so the learning goes fast due to age and exposure. The parents will have problems because they are older and less exposed.

Regarding IQ, that is hardly related to speech / sign.
Give me an IQ-test in chinese and I guarentee you that my IQ will be in the low 10's. And that because I guessed a couple of answers right :lol:

Our strategy was:
NEVER loose communication with our child!

Exactly, my dear Cloggy, exactly!! :bowdown:

DD, you go, girl! Keep on being onboard for the hearing parents (I hope you don't mind being labeled this -- easier for understanding who I am talking about)... Where else can they get good, unbiased information for their deaf child?

Cloggy you really hit the nail on the head with that statement, "NEVER lose communication with our child!" That was actually how I felt about Fragmenter -- he was my third child, but the first deaf one. It was easy with the older two as they are hearing and the world's all prepared for them (I just asked that they use sign language and they did NOT have to be fluent in that, just enough to communicate with my second husband as we got married when they were 6 and 5 respectively and because I work full-time I didn't have the time to "interpret" between FAMILY members.)
When Fragmenter came long, we long suspected he had some hearing loss and when he was finally diagnosed at 11 months (remember this is over 25 years ago) my husband and I discussed all our options: Fulton = out cos Fragmenter will have to stay at dorm, no way for this mom!; 2 oral schools = one's out and the other one (CID), hmmm....; SSD (Special School District) = hmmm. We went with CID first but all the teacher stressed on was the word "apple" with other words added (and this was $30 per1-hour session once a week for a month before we decided it wasn't working and I actually argued - and won - with the teacher over Fragmenter's use of sign language at home -- I told her I refuse to interpret for a father and HIS son, HIS first child!) so we enrolled Fragmenter and eventually his sister who came along 2 years later. What was important to us at the time was that we all can communicate and that they have some kind of language to communicate with.
Fragmenter and his wife want their children to hear/speak -- which is fine with me -- it's their decision and our society is more openly accepting of the deaf than they were 25 years ago.
Sorry for all the babbling. :blah:

(please note that CID is NOT what it was in my and Fragmenter's time -- hmm, I'll have to use a day off from work just to check out the classroom setting there! and to see for myself what Lillys dad talked about)
 
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