Being prepared for discrimination

[Beach girl]

The first thing we were taught in ice skating class was how to fall...and get back up.

Yup. Same with skiing. Same with a lot of sports, I'd guess.

Lots of other things to respond to here. DeafCaroline, I like your statement about "the only boss who would hire me, is me." SO many women have done that. Did you know that women start up small businesses at a greater rate than men do? And if memory serves, tend to be more successful, too.

Shel, I had another thought. You're in D.C., right? Do you ever have a "career day" or something like that for your seniors? The Federal government is one of the better employers around for offering accommodations to the deaf (and others). You could ask someone from HR from one of the larger agencies to come and talk about what a deaf or HOH employee might do in the Federal gov't, and what the gov't does as an employer to provide what is needed.

 

[LoveBlue]

Yup. Same with skiing. Same with a lot of sports, I'd guess.

Yeah, forgot about skiing. I did that one weekend and spent the whole second day "falling" and getting back up as I went down the intermediate hill...because I could not turn right, so I would purposefully fall to stop, get up and continue on. When I made it down, turned in my skis and went to the lounge until it was time to leave. Haven't been skiing since. :P

 

[Beach girl]

Aw, that's a shame. Back in my hot-shot days, when I was a lot younger, fitter, and skinnier, I was a ski instructor with a group that took inner-city kids from Boston into the ski areas of New Hampshire and Vermont for a day (sometimes a weekend) of skiing. In two hours in the morning, we instructors could teach those kids, the "never-evers" ("never-ever" had seen a mountain before, much less been on skis) how to stand up, how to fall safely, how to get up again, how to glide, do a wedge turn, ride the ski-lift and get off safely. That was all they needed to know how to do to have a fun afternoon skiing.

I loved skiing. It is the closest thing you can get to flying while still staying on the ground. There is just nothing like it. You don't have to be THAT good to get a thrill from it, but definitely true that the better you are, the more fun it is.

Still, the great thing is that even doing a nice, slow beginner run from the top can be just as wonderful as barrelling down a mogul run. Better, even.

 

[dogmom]

I really agree with the idea of "balance" but it's a hard ideal to reach. Things have happened to me <and my family -including a Klan encounter> because we're Jewish; to me cuz I'm female, bi - as well as all the other things that make up me.

Finding that balance ...role play with very young kids maybe? I think depending on what "ism" or "difference" we're discussing, awareness of that and other people's attitudes manifest differently or at various ages, but I do think the reality is even pretty young kids pick up on these things, so role plays, discussions that are loving, open and where you share stories and honest thoughts....giving kids a sense of self-determination and a strong core identity regardless of anything else.

 

[GrendelQ]

So, it seems that programs that support Deaf culture seem to teach deaf children about this issue and how to self-advocate for themselves. Mainstreaming or other deaf programs that have no Deaf culture awareness seem to have the idea that if the deaf students pass classes, seem to be able to socialize with hearing peers, and have good speech skills, they would do fine in the working world.

I feel the same as DeafCaroline and the others. I think a good balance would be to teach deaf high schoolers about ADA laws, how to self-advocate, and strategies on how to handle oppression/discrimination.

Mainstreaming or deaf programs that focus on auditory/medical pointview of deafness should include lessons in this area.

Yes Shel! That's so critical and often missing, both the formal and the informal approaches to self-advocacy, and developing/maintaining the self-esteem to claim what you need/want. Right now, my daughter has no problem stopping a spoken conversation and stating politely, but emphatically, "I can't hear what you are saying. Sign to me or show me." And people comply, the conversation shifts to a place where she can participate and continues. I never want to see her smiling and nodding, knowing that she's barely following. I watch for that all the time, so afraid she'll find it easier to just let that happen -- I think it's going to take so much strength for her to continue to shift conversations all her life, it would help to have reinforcement throughout her life that full participation is something she has every right -- if not to expect without prompting -- at least to demand.

Self-advocacy has been in her IEP from the start and I expect the form it takes will change dramatically throughout her academic life, but I intend to keep it in there.

 

[dogmom]

Shel and Grendel, I really agree with you about cultural awareness as significant to advocacy....it's part of knowing who you really are as opposed to who someone else wants you to be. With that awareness can come an inner strength.

 

[DeafCaroline]

YSelf-advocacy has been in her IEP from the start and I expect the form it takes will change dramatically throughout her academic life, but I intend to keep it in there.

Does anyone know what percentage of adults (deaf since birth) with CIs were able to successfully gain employment?

My mother also taught me to fight for myself but that doesn't mean a boss is going to hire me just because I demand things. It doesn't work that way. You CAN make certain demands after you get employed but not beforehand. It's getting hired in the first place that's the biggest obstacle.

 

[Buffalo]

Yes, they need to be prepared for the inevitable discriminations. They need to know what to do and what not to do. Also they need to know who to contact to solve the problems.

 

[jillio]

Good question Shel. I've wondered about that one, too. For me, beeing honest is perhaps the way to go. They would also find it interesting that deaf people have faced different kind of oppression through the history. I belive it was more self made deaf people in the 19th century, in the golden era, and also early in the 20th century than later in the 20th century. The 21th century, will again be different, and even I don't know what the future holds. And the discrimination experienced by deaf people vary. Some deaf people are successfull in high positions, while others feels totally rejected by the society. I think students perhaps would like to know this, combined with your personal knowledge and wisdom. They will after all, also talk to other deaf adults and get different inputs.

Also, another concern is perhaps that students will wonder why adults aren't honest to them. It's a way of telling students they aren't strong or smart enough to hear the truth? Young people often think they will do it better than all those stupid grown ups anyway, so perhaps nature have provided us with tools to hear the truth when we are young.

Just my two cents.

Good question with no clear answers.

Yeah, I find the question very intersesting as well, and one that I have addressed before from a multi-cultural perspective. When we see Deafness as a cultural and linguistic difference, we can see connections to other minority cultures, and learn from some of their practices. It is my belief that D/deaf kids should be raised from early childhood to recognize and understand the audist perspective they will encounter on a daily basis in a hearing society. They need to be prepared for the attitudes they will encounter as a fact of stratification in our society, not as a judgement against "those nasty hearies." The plain fact of the matter is, they will encounter discrimination in the form of audism not just from hearing society, but from some hoh and deaf members of hearing society, as well.

Black families teach their children very early on that prejudice based on skin color is a simple fact of life, and they prepare them to deal with the many ways, both overt and covert, that they will face this prejudice and discrimination. They provide them with the coping skills they need to deal with it. This is not taught as a judgemental practice, or a negative towards Caucasions in any way, but as a simple fact of what the exisitence of a Black child in a majority White society will encounter.

Personally, I think we would do well to engage in the same practice with our deaf children. The problem arises is that 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. Until we can get those parents to be honest enough to investigate and recognize their own audism, they are totally ineffective in teaching their children how to deal with it. The best they can do is teach them what their rights are legally, how to obtain accommodation: the surface things. They cannot teach them to recognize underlying audist attitudes and the ways in which they influence hearing persons behaviors because they refuse to admit that, as hearing persons, they have been socialized in the same way. Somehow, they appear to believe if they admit to having audist beliefs and engaging in audist actions, that they are judged as "bad parents" who refuse to accept their child. Nothing is further from the truth. They are simply living by the values of hearing and sound perception that they have been socialized to have their entire lives. But few will allow themselves to become vulnerable enough to even attempt to look at their own audsit beliefs. As a consequence, they perpetuate these beliefs, that lead to prejudice, that lead to discrimination, in their own homes and with their own child.

Yes, most definately, a child needs to be raised in an environment that prepares them for what they will encounter in the real world, and they need to develop the healthy coping skills that will allow them to deal with those encounters in a way that does not destroy their self esteem and self worth. The Deaf community can be a great source for learning how to do this. It is unfortunate, indeed, that so many hearing parents discount what Deaf adults attempt to pass to them in order to benefit their children with "But my child is different."

If there is one thing that history teaches, it is that the cultural values, norms, and practices that are handed down from one generation to another is what allows for the healthy survival of the younger members. The Deaf attempt to do this for deaf children of hearing parents, and are shut out, discounted, waved off, called "militants". And yet, the child's own parents cannot give their child the tools that will allow for this survival because they have been socialized in a very different culture. This is exactly why, for years and years and years, we see the same phenomena occuring of deaf adults describing years of being "on the fence" or of not recognizing the audist practices that have covertly contributed to their feelings of low self esteeem and self worth. It is a contributing factor to why we see young deaf adults and adolescents developing eating disorders, depression, obsessive / compulsive behaviors, and self harming behaviors.

Our deaf kids need the coping skills that will allow them not just to survive, but to live, from childhood forward, as well adjusted, confident, capable people. What will it take to get hearing parents to allow themselves to become vulnerable enough to say, "Hey, I need help with this."?

 

[Buffalo]

Black families teach their children very early on that prejudice based on skin color is a simple fact of life, and they prepare them to deal with the many ways, both overt and covert, that they will face this prejudice and discrimination. They provide them with the coping skills they need to deal with it. This is not taught as a judgemental practice, or a negative towards Caucasions in any way, but as a simple fact of what the exisitence of a Black child in a majority White society will encounter.

Yes, the black child has his own family to turn to when the child is overwhelmed but who do the deaf child turn to if his parents are hearing?? That is why I often feel I have to stand alone. I need to hang out with deaf people to make me feel better.

 

[jillio]

Yes, the black child has his own family to turn to when the child is overwhelmed but who do the deaf child turn to if his parents are hearing?? That is why I often feel I have to stand alone. I need to hang out with deaf people to make me feel better.

It is that connection to sameness and unspoken understanding that culture provides; it is a comfort, a place of safety. And in that place of safety, a child learns to develop the skills they need to become a healthy, well functioning adult.

Here is another parallel: the vast majority of people in an interracial marraige understand the importance of providing cultural exposure from both cultures for their bi-racial children. Most hearing parents of deaf children do not understand that importance. I pesonally theorize that much of that stems from the fact that a child's bi-racial status is generally very easy to recognize. Because the Caucasion parent is faced with that difference from themselves in a very concrete way, they are more willing to say, "I don't know how to be a black child in a white society." and take measures to prepare their children. The same, in reverse, with the Black parent. They understand, fundamentally, that because that child's status is easily recognized by all who encounter him/her, that child needs to learn from infancy how to prepare for that.

Unfortunately, parents see deafness as a medical problem to be treated, a loss to be corrected, something to be remediated. Yet, there are differences that have nothing to do with lack of sound. I think it scares them to know that they have a child that has some fundamental differences from themselves and will have experiences that are fundamentally different from their own growing up experiences. In fact, it terrifies them so much that they just block it out, and refuse to see that their deaf child needs the same sort of cultural experience, the same sense of "people like me", the same sense of being understood, that they were provided in their own hearing families as children. As a consequence, our deaf kids are growing up without it.

 

[flip]

Unfortunately, parents see deafness as a medical problem to be treated, a loss to be corrected, something to be remediated. Yet, there are differences that have nothing to do with lack of sound. I think it scares them to know that they have a child that has some fundamental differences from themselves and will have experiences that are fundamentally different from their own growing up experiences. In fact, it terrifies them so much that they just block it out, and refuse to see that their deaf child needs the same sort of cultural experience, the same sense of "people like me", the same sense of being understood, that they were provided in their own hearing families as children. As a consequence, our deaf kids are growing up without it.

Maybe some of them think they are doing it right, when they try to provide the kids with the same sense of belonging they felt to their family as a kid, by including their kid in their spoken environment. This is why the golden rule not allways works.

Not to mention parents, that felt left out as kids, and don't want their kid to experience the same, by doing everything to make their kid feel they belong to a family. Sadly, often in those cases, the parents are really trying to comfort their own feelings, not the ones of the kid.

 

[jillio]

Maybe some of them think they are doing it right, when they try to provide the kids with the same sense of belonging they felt to their family as a kid, by including their kid in their spoken environment. This is why the golden rule not allways works.

Not to mention parents, that felt left out as kids, and don't want their kid to experience the same, by doing everything to make their kid feel they belong to a family. Sadly, often in those cases, the parents are really trying to comfort their own feelings, not the ones of the kid.

You have a very valid point, there. Some do think they are doing it right by trying to include their child in their own spoken environment. But here is where the problems arise:

A Black child raised in an all white family knows, without ever having it expressed to him/her, that there is a fundamental difference between them and the rest of their family. Even though that child might be raised to be included in all things cultural and all experiences the rest of the family enjoys, he/she still knows, without question, that there is a difference between them and the rest of the family. That child will no doubt grow up well adjusted and sure of his/her family's love and support and will love and support their family in return. But still, the feeling of being the "different one" will never go away.

A deaf child in a hearing family has a similar experience. While others might not notice the difference as readily as a difference in skin color allows, the deaf child knows, from his/her earliest experience, that there is something "different" about him/her and his family members. He understands that he is the only one in the family that bears this difference, even though he can't actually put his finger on it. He/she has adapted to his hearing family's ways and manners of communication, they generally understand each other, he/she is included in everything the family does. But still, that difference is there, and he/she feels it acutely.

The way to counteract the Black child in a white family feeling so alone, so isolated, so "different" is to take the measures necessary to expose him to a culture where he is not different. The same holds true for the deaf child. By doing so, the child understands, "Hey, I might be a little different from my family members, but that doesn't mean that I am different from EVERYONE." It allows him to better find his identity in a family that has a different racial make-up, or a different hearing status, than his own. In other words, the child's self worth is increased, self esteem goes up because his difference gets validated.

 

[KristinaB]

I guess I had an advantage with my DCT (Diversified Cooperative Training) class. I had signed up and was approved for the class. Then for the summer school, I went to the Tech school and got my CNA certificate and a job with a local hospital. During our class times, the instructor was very open about being prepared for a lot of things after we graduated and we had a lot of class time covering all kinds of things. At the schools where I grew up in Central Florida, not where I graduated, starting in 2nd grade, they started in with lessons on equality and general life skills. I know in 9th & 10th grade we were required to take courses on "job skills" and "home skills". These classes taught us how to conduct ourselves in job interviews and after we got the job. What would be expected of us and what kinds of things we could do to advance ourselves. the home skills class, taught all kinds of things that my parents automatically did. Laundry, basic cleaning, home care, vehicle care, and basic banking. (not budgeting) I was surprised to learn that those were not required courses all over Florida. I could not believe how helpless the classmates were after we moved and I was in a different school district for 11th and 12th grade years. Those students were clueless about a lot of things.

Back to Shel's thought: I realize there could be a fine line, but yes, I do think all students should be prepared for all eventualities. You never know what may happen. I got through to some website a few years back and was able to get all kinds of teaching materials for my kids (home school) regarding ADA. My kids did those lessons for 5 years and learned a lot.

 

[AmeriplanMama]

The first thing we were taught in ice skating class was how to fall...and get back up.

Or in skiing, as someone said in this thread.

There will be people that think differently from you on some subjects like disablity, religion, to name a few. Accept them for who they are and move on.

I did pretty well growing up---only deaf in all hearing school, decent grades, good jobs, life skills and experiences but.......no one's perfect.

It HELPS to surround yourself with more open-minded people than not. If you encounter job situations where you are told you "can't" by closed-minded people, move on. You cannot change these people. You can try but it's a battle you can choose to fight. You can teach people, You can advocate for yourself but you cannot change people unless they want to rethink their beliefs. That can occur on a trip to a foreign country where they could not understand the language, or being in a relationship with an individual that changes your life, yadda yadda....

There were jobs I could not get despite being qualifed, skilled enough or had the experience just because some people chose to hire hearing over deaf applicants. Move on. I've been told I'm overqualified. People are just smart enough not to say, "um, I'd rather hire someone who can hear. I'm afraid you may not work out". Move on.

I'm deaf, and I applied to all the government agencies for jobs but didn't even get an interview. Maybe I did it all wrong but I did everything to get hired. Even the special channels for the disabled. Nothing worked out. It's not in the stars. So I moved on. Oh wait, on a second stab few years later, I took the Immigration exam only to flunk it. Ok, I didn't have all answers right. I took the US Customs Inspector exam and passed it. only 13,000 people passed it out of many more thousands of people who tried to pass it. WOW. I did good then. Still.... Guess what, the gov't scrapped the list with all of us, due to shifted priorities after we took the exam. Nothing personal against me. I'm pretty sure I'm the only deaf one on that list. I can go on and on but I'm more of a believer in the theory/fact "It's WHO you know that gets you the job, not WHAT you know". I was the top candidate for a police job until I got pushed aside by someone "upstairs" who wanted a certain person to take the job. Of course I was real upset about it......but can't change the person behind the decisions made in the police department. Their loss.

My parents raised me to believe I can do anything I set my mind to do, like Shel90. I'm sure my speech is not as great as Shel90's but it's as good as it can be. Most of the time, I do allright..... There are jobs I can't do because of my deafness--as much as some hearing people who can't do jobs due to medical conditions. Move on. Still, at least try to do what you want to do. Make adjustments where you are not able to get what you want but try to get close enough.

I had zero security experience when I was offered a job as a security officer. I was promoted to security supervisor after a year on the job with eight employees under me mainly because I've shown I can do the job. Oh yes, you need radios but the boss who hired me took care of that himself and I used alpha pagers and a lot of visiblity (everywhere physically). I couldn't answer the phone at the gate house when I was there BUT I did everything else that made the boss happy so he didn't care if I didn't pick up the phone. He made sure someone else handled the phones. I was also put in charge in Security and HR when the boss left. Until the VP of Finance in the company demoted me to "give the job to the new daughter-in-law in the family". She forgot to demote my pay! So I earned good money reading the newspaper at the gate house. Less stress. The company folded soon after... So I went back in food service to pay the bills.

Same in food service. To sum it up, I tried to become a sous chef but they kept picking people who THEY felt could do the job better. Their loss. I didn't have to worry about the stress they have had to deal with. Several got fired. I didn't. Better not to get fired in a company where you can get a job anywhere in the country. If you're fired, you can't work within the company ever again. Better be able to get work anywhere than be a big shot in one pond..... Everything happens for a reason. I've been told that I couldn't work on the line (front end service due to "communciation issues". Again, it's the PERSON who blocked me, not my deafness. I can do line as another resturant job showed me. I could not work on the line at a restaurant but when I needed a second job, I found it at THAT restuarant across the street. I worked on the LINE there. I had zero line experience but I sure can deliver food zippin' fast. Never mind the fact I broke a lot of plates when I handled the pizza dishes BUT the mgr who gave me a chance loved me so much. HE was reaping the rewards for being open enough to give me a shot.

Eventually years later, never did I know I would end up as the boss myself. I own a catering service now. Of course, I wanted to do this, that, this and that but they did not all fully pan out but all prepared me for what I'm doing now and I love the freedom I have working from home. I also have the freedom to wait on a commericial location in today's hard times not to overextend myself as a business owner.

So to supplement some posters' advice........no need to scare young people with the real world stuff. They will learn and figure out things as they go along just like hearing people.

 

[shel90]

Yup. Same with skiing. Same with a lot of sports, I'd guess.

Lots of other things to respond to here. DeafCaroline, I like your statement about "the only boss who would hire me, is me." SO many women have done that. Did you know that women start up small businesses at a greater rate than men do? And if memory serves, tend to be more successful, too.

Shel, I had another thought. You're in D.C., right? Do you ever have a "career day" or something like that for your seniors? The Federal government is one of the better employers around for offering accommodations to the deaf (and others). You could ask someone from HR from one of the larger agencies to come and talk about what a deaf or HOH employee might do in the Federal gov't, and what the gov't does as an employer to provide what is needed.

I dont teach high school but that's not my point. I noticed that the deaf ed programs that value Deaf culture/ASL tend to teach kids how to advocate for themselves and about the potential for discrimination/oppression. They teach them strategies on how to handle situations like these. Also, they do have career day (in fact more than one day) and clubs on specific future fields for the kids. It got me to thinking about my experience and my friends' experiences with being mainstreamed on how nothing about advocating for ourselves and how we were lead to believe if we got good grades, could speak well, and etc, we would be treated equally. Nope, we werent so I was left with anger and feeling that it was my fault for not being "hearing" enough.

These programs (oral-only and mainstreaming) really need to stop putting so much focus on making deaf children like "hearing" children and adopt Deaf culture/Advocacy in their programs.

When I brought that up with some people, I was surprised that some people disagreed with that saying that it would make the students afraid to try if they knew too much.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Shel90 - I am glad you're taking this seriously and I am behind you all the way as far as pushing for advocacy for the oral mainstreamed students. I mean, scaring a 12 year old is one thing but an 18, 19, 20 year old, they can take it. They may not like what they learn but at least they'll be informed.

 

[TXgolfer]

I love how you make a broad statement just to cover your ass even though you don't believe in it and even though it contradicts with each other.




it's pretty obvious that you believe teaching them about discrimination law is useless. I don't see how you can say it's valuable and yet... you believe it's useless.

Wrong again.... I said just the opposite.... Read again

edit: just saw the first part of your post. *smh*. Shel asked for our opinions.... I gave mine. Being that this was in general chat I don't think she was requesting a debate. The point is pretty clear, sadly you are unable to grasp it. Teaching the law is great....although I am not sure how much of that children will understand. But (there is that key word again) harping on oppression is probably of no value IMO. ( another key phrase, especially since that is what was requested)

 

[jillio]

I dont teach high school but that's not my point. I noticed that the deaf ed programs that value Deaf culture/ASL tend to teach kids how to advocate for themselves and about the potential for discrimination/oppression. They teach them strategies on how to handle situations like these. Also, they do have career day (in fact more than one day) and clubs on specific future fields for the kids. It got me to thinking about my experience and my friends' experiences with being mainstreamed on how nothing about advocating for ourselves and how we were lead to believe if we got good grades, could speak well, and etc, we would be treated equally. Nope, we werent so I was left with anger and feeling that it was my fault for not being "hearing" enough.

These programs (oral-only and mainstreaming) really need to stop putting so much focus on making deaf children like "hearing" children and adopt Deaf culture/Advocacy in their programs.

When I brought that up with some people, I was surprised that some people disagreed with that saying that it would make the students afraid to try if they knew too much.

I agree with your evaluation. Deaf schools are much better at providing transitional services to their students at all levels. One of the reasons that students coming from a Deaf school, are, in general, better prepared to handle the adult work world or to enter college.

 

[jillio]

Shel90 - I am glad you're taking this seriously and I am behind you all the way as far as pushing for advocacy for the oral mainstreamed students. I mean, scaring a 12 year old is one thing but an 18, 19, 20 year old, they can take it. They may not like what they learn but at least they'll be informed.

It isn't necessary to frighten a kid in order to prepare him for reality. You simply present the concept in a non-judgemental, non-evaluative way. It just is; it is neither good nor bad.