Bavarian Constitutional Court Upholds Headscarf Ban

Liebling:-))) said:
When Faith is More Important than School



When Faith is More Important than School | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 23.04.2004


I understand why it has to be stop... they should go school to learn, not practise their beliefs.
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Islam is a sociopolitical religion. Islam governs every aspect of life: education, parenting, relationships, religion, economy, and so on. You to say, "They should go to school to learn, not practice their beliefs," is ignorance at best. You should learn about Islam before you make such comments.
 
Actually, you've shown me nothing but ignorance. You claim to have "learned" about Islam but you've learned nothing but bias from the Christian camp. Can't you learn of Islam in a free and objective way?
 
Teresh said:
I never said they weren't required to follow German law, I said that they need to be treated fairly. If Germany refuses to permit German Muslim girls from wearing headscarves to school, then they must also refuse to permit Christians from wearing crosses or other religious paraphernalia.

Otherwise, they are discriminating against Muslims, which is ridiculous.
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Yup, that true...

If they want ban on headscarves then must ban on any clothes are related to Christian, like crosses or something...

It cannot do it in USA because we do have one against discrimination is from civil rights, human rights, alot of laws and even amendment.
 
Pacman said:
...If they want ban on headscarves then must ban on any clothes are related to Christian, like crosses or something...
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Many places have done that already. In fact, some places allow headscarves but don't allow crosses (and I'm not talking about Muslim countries only).
 
Reba said:
Many places have done that already. In fact, some places allow headscarves but don't allow crosses (and I'm not talking about Muslim countries only).
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Where? It does allow for people to wear religion related clothes at my school, such as several women do wear cross on t-shirt since they are Catholic. I haven't seen any students who wear headscarves at my school but would get first time in near future or who knows...
 
Pacman said:
Where? It does allow for people to wear religion related clothes at my school, such as several women do wear cross on t-shirt since they are Catholic. I haven't seen any students who wear headscarves at my school but would get first time in near future or who knows...
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Some examples:

Girl banned from wearing cross at school
13jan07

A BRITISH schoolgirl has been barred from wearing a crucifix necklace in class, the Daily Mail reported today.

Samantha Devine, a 13-year-old Roman Catholic, was told by teachers in Gillingham, south-east England, that it breached health and safety rules, the paper added.

Her family reportedly says it will fight the decision and has accused the school of discriminating against Christians because Sikh and Muslim pupils can wear religious symbols.

The case echoes that of British Airways employee Nadia Eweida, who was suspended in October for failing to remove her necklace or hide it under clothing in accordance with company policy....
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Northern Territory News: Girl banned from wearing cross at school [ 13jan07 ]

August 06, 2001
(CNSNews.com) - A Texas police sergeant who was fired for insubordination after he refused to remove a piece of religious insignia from his uniform is appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court on grounds that his right to free speech was violated.

Patrol Sergeant George Daniels, a 13-year veteran of the Arlington, Texas Police Department, said he was a victim of religious discrimination when he was fired in September 1998 for wearing a Christian cross pinned to the lapel of his uniform.

Daniels' boss, Police Chief David Kunkle, said the cross - which was about the size of the DARE and other pins Daniels and his fellow officers wore every day in the line of duty - could be perceived as evidence of bias or prejudice if worn on the beat, and refused to grant Daniels permission to wear it.

Kunkle had previously allowed and encouraged his officers to wear various insignia on their uniforms, including union pins and Mexican flag pins. He acknowledged in testimony that he could have granted Daniels' request but chose not to because he believed the cross "might offend someone."...
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Suit filed for cross-wearing employee
Woman allegedly fired from library job for not removing pendant
Posted: February 2, 2002

A lawsuit was filed yesterday on behalf of a Kentucky woman who says she was fired from her job at a public library for wearing a necklace with a cross pendant to work.

The American Center for Law and Justice, a public-interest law firm, filed the suit in U.S. District Court in Bowling Green, Ky., against the Logan County Public Library.

"This is a case where the public library system enforced a policy that is not only unconstitutional, but illegal as well," Francis Manion, senior counsel for the ACLJ, said in a statement. "There is nothing wrong with an employee who chooses to express her religious faith at the workplace by wearing a cross necklace. In fact, her desire to do so is protected by the Constitution. Sadly, this local government body decided to act in a discriminatory and wrongful manner by terminating our client for wearing a cross necklace."

The suit contends that Kimberly Draper, who was hired to work at the front desk of the library, was given a dress code policy that read: "No clothing depicting religious, political or potentially offensive decoration is permitted."...
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WorldNetDaily: Suit filed for cross-wearing employee
 
Well, I've been seeing more and more religions being removed from schools. And the reasoning is that all religion should be treated fairly and with respect. Most schools that I remember have allowed the hijad (head scarf) during school hours. And I remember in high school, the teachers set up one classroom for students to pray throughout the school day, due to one religion's need to pray 5 times a day or something like that.

More schools are trying to respect all religions, by making them all equal. I remember growing up we always did the pledge of alliance. then it was removed from classrooms due to having God in it. So schools are trying to become less biased against religion. But banning hijads is going too far.
 
BearBeauty said:
Well, I've been seeing more and more religions being removed from schools. And the reasoning is that all religion should be treated fairly and with respect. Most schools that I remember have allowed the hijad (head scarf) during school hours. And I remember in high school, the teachers set up one classroom for students to pray throughout the school day, due to one religion's need to pray 5 times a day or something like that.

More schools are trying to respect all religions, by making them all equal. I remember growing up we always did the pledge of alliance. then it was removed from classrooms due to having God in it. So schools are trying to become less biased against religion. But banning hijads is going too far.
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At our school, we are allowed to pledge on US flag but cannot call "God" because of against on 9th Ninth Circuit, that which is controlled in rest of west coast and inner west area. In most of suburb in Chicago, even including with city school aren't allow to have pledge on US flag at school but some school district can remove "God" from list when pledge on US flag. I remember about few of my friend in Chicago area and their school isn't allow them to do it for some reason.
 
Woman fired for wearing cross?
Says Target managers 'targeted' her for discrimination
Posted: March 16, 2002

By Jon Dougherty

A former employee of a Trussville, Ala., Target store has filed suit against the company, alleging that managers fired her because she refused to remove or hide a Christian cross hanging from her neck that was visible to customers.

Cindy Dunn of Springville, Ala., filed the suit last week against the Minnesota-based retailer – the nation's second-largest after Wal-Mart – over management's alleged discrimination against her because of her religion, according to a report in the Birmingham News.

"Target Stores is deeply disturbed by recent allegations contained in a lawsuit filed by a former team member claiming religious discrimination," Target officials said in a short statement sent to WND yesterday.

"It is not true that this team member was terminated because of religious beliefs or for wearing religious symbols or insignia," the statement said. "At Target we respect and value the individuality of all team members and guests."

The suit, filed in U.S. district court in Birmingham, says Dunn was hired at the Super Target store as a cashier Aug. 1, 2000. As an evangelical Christian, the suit says, Dunn wore a cross as a symbol of her faith, which also requires her to express her beliefs when she has a chance.

Three months after her employment began, the suit says management personnel instructed her to tuck a cross necklace underneath her clothing because it was offensive to some.

The suit alleges that the store did not have a dress code policy for jewelry, which permitted the wearing of tongue rings, nose rings and other "unusual" forms of jewelry.

According to the Birmingham News report, Dunn refused to hide her necklace. In another attempt to get her to comply, she says her immediate supervisor and the store's human resources manager appealed to her again to hide the cross, but again she refused.

According to her suit, Dunn claims that managers began to "harass" and "intimidate" her with disciplinary actions to which other employees were not subjected. The store also allegedly reneged on an agreement over her work hours.

In January 2001, the suit claims, a store security team member told Dunn he was instructed by store managers to watch her more closely – presumably to catch her making mistakes – because they "wanted her gone."

She was let go shortly thereafter.

Her suit, among other demands, seeks reinstatement, back pay, compensatory and punitive damages...

Brie Heath, a spokeswoman for Target, told WorldNetDaily the company "does have a dress code, but it does not prohibit crosses or anything of that nature."...
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WorldNetDaily: Woman fired for wearing cross?
 
Pacman said:
At our school, we are allowed to pledge on US flag but cannot call "God" because of against on 9th Ninth Circuit, that which is controlled in rest of west coast and inner west area. In most of suburb in Chicago, even including with city school aren't allow to have pledge on US flag at school but some school district can remove "God" from list when pledge on US flag. I remember about few of my friend in Chicago area and their school isn't allow them to do it for some reason.
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I'm curious if that works both ways.

That is, if a student recites the pledge and includes "under God", what happens?
 
One-Year Suspension for Wearing Cross to School

GLEN CAMPBELL, Pa. A teacher's aide is challenging her one-year suspension without pay for wearing a cross necklace, which officials say violates a Pennsylvania Public School Code prohibition against teachers wearing religious garb.

"I got suspended April 8, 2003, for wearing a cross to work and not being willing to either remove it or tuck it in," said Brenda Nichol, 43, of Indiana County.

Officials at ARIN Intermediate Unit 28 wouldn't comment on Nichol's case specifically, but said their employee handbook is based on the school code and prohibits all employees from wearing religious garb. ARIN supplies teachers aides and other services to 11 school districts and two technical schools in Armstrong and Indiana counties.

Nichol acknowledges she was told of the prohibition as far back as 1997, and was warned twice since March that wearing the necklace was cause for suspension. Under the school code, she could be fired for a second offense.

"I think the public needs to know that there is a code out there that is against our freedom," Nichol said. She has enlisted the help of the American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public-interest law firm founded in 1990 by Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson. The group plans, but has not yet filed, a federal court lawsuit.

"We get cases about teachers' rights to religious expression in school all the time, whether they can have a Bible on their desk or religious artifacts in their office," said Vincent McCarthy, senior counsel at the ACLJ's office in New Milford, Conn. "What usually happens is we send a demand letter and the case is resolved. They rarely if ever go to court."

"Where the line is drawn is when what the teacher wears or has with them ... has reached the point where you could say it becomes an endorsement of a particular religion by the school," McCarthy said. He doesn't believe that happened in Nichol's case.

But ARIN's executive director, Robert H. Goad Jr., believes the school's policy is reasonable and based on firm legal ground.

Goad said the law is meant to protect people of all faiths from being offended. The same law would prohibit a teacher from wearing a pendant or emblem related to witchcraft, for example.

"How would the people of our community deal with people wearing such things in a public school classroom?" Goad said.

The state's religious garb prohibition was passed in 1895 and incorporated into the school code when it was established in 1949. It has since been upheld by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Goad said.

In that case, a Muslim teacher from Philadelphia -- backed by the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission -- wanted to wear traditional garb including a head scarf and long, loose dress. The EEOC said that would have been a "reasonable accommodation" of her religious faith, but the appeals court disagreed in 1990, saying "the preservation of religious neutrality [in public schools] is a compelling state interest."

A similar law in Oregon was upheld by that state's Supreme Court in 1986 for the same reasons, according to The First Amendment Center, a constitutional rights group that is part of the Freedom Forum.

Still, that group -- in "A Teacher's Guide to Religion in the Public Schools" -- suggests teachers probably still have the right "to wear non-obtrusive jewelry, such as a cross or Star of David. But teachers should not wear clothing with a proselytizing message (e.g., a 'Jesus Saves' T-shirt)."

McCarthy thinks the whole question is ridiculous considering the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, signed into law in 2000 by then-President Clinton. Among other things, the law also protects the right of inmates to wear religious garb -- like Muslim skull caps -- in prisons that receive federal money.

"Under [that law] prisoners have more freedom to express themselves by their garb than school teachers," McCarthy said.
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Reba said:
I'm curious if that works both ways.

That is, if a student recites the pledge and includes "under God", what happens?
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At my school, there's almost no incident for broke the law but if we do it then we will get discipline action, such as detention hall, suspension and other thing.

In Chicago area, I don't know about what they doing but every school district have different policies.
 
Pacman said:
At my school, there's almost no incident for broke the law but if we do it then we will get discipline action, such as detention hall, suspension and other thing.
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Saying, "under God" as part of the Pledge to the Flag is not breaking the law. It is fully legal.

In Chicago area, I don't know about what they doing but every school district have different policies.
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I'm surprised no one has sued the school system yet.
 
Reba said:
Saying, "under God" as part of the Pledge to the Flag is not breaking the law. It is fully legal.


I'm surprised no one has sued the school system yet.
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Except for any states that who under 9th Ninth Circuit (States that under including are CA, AZ, HI, WA, OR, AK, ID, MO, UT and NV) are banned on pledge the US flag that under "God" but it has been passed since last several years ago, such as all school district are banned to say that, but we do pledge the US flag with no under "God".

Just example like that...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

btw, This law is applied to public school.
 
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It's becoming more commonplace to limit religion during school hours.. mainly due to the fact that nobody wants to offend other religions.. I remember wearing a cross my sister gave me, and I got yelled at by a teacher until i told her it had no religionous significance to me. She was like "what?"

I had to explain it was a gift from my sister that I wear all the time.. usually hidden under clothing. The teacher was like Ahh i see. So each school has a policy of what you can or can't wear.. but sometimes schools take it TOO far.. and i think this is one example of taking it too far. But then again.. if you look at rules for visiting some countries... women have to be covered up no matter what country they're from. So everywhere we go.. there are laws we must follow.
 
Pacman said:
At our school, we are allowed to pledge on US flag but cannot call "God" because of against on 9th Ninth Circuit, that which is controlled in rest of west coast and inner west area. In most of suburb in Chicago, even including with city school aren't allow to have pledge on US flag at school but some school district can remove "God" from list when pledge on US flag. I remember about few of my friend in Chicago area and their school isn't allow them to do it for some reason.
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I think the pledge should be the same as the U.S. mint. people should be require to say "God".. read the link and you will see why I think so:

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust"

I think making a pledge like that is assuring us that we still have our freedom of Religion and it is a promise that we will protect those rights rather we are atheists or religious. You take God out, it tells us that we are doing downhill and pretty soon our religious rights will be stripped.
 
Pacman said:
Except for any states that who under 9th Ninth Circuit (States that under including are CA, AZ, HI, WA, OR, AK, ID, MO, UT and NV) are banned on pledge the US flag that under "God" but it has been passed since last several years ago, such as all school district are banned to say that, but we do pledge the US flag with no under "God."

btw, This law is applied to public school.
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The school can't legally force students to say "under God".

The school can't legally prohibit students from saying "under God".

The schools might be making "laws" against students saying "under God" but what they are doing is unconstitutional.

That's what I mean about being fair both ways.

Everyone whines if someone is forced to include "under God" but no one stands up when students are forced to drop "under God". They need to stand up for their rights the same way every other group does.

Can you please give me a link to this school "law"? I searched on line and I can't find it. I would like to read the exact wording of it.

I know it's not a law in the schools where I interpret.
 
Reba said:
The school can't legally force students to say "under God".

The school can't legally prohibit students from saying "under God".

The schools might be making "laws" against students saying "under God" but what they are doing is unconstitutional.

That's what I mean about being fair both ways.

Everyone whines if someone is forced to include "under God" but no one stands up when students are forced to drop "under God". They need to stand up for their rights the same way every other group does.

Can you please give me a link to this school "law"? I searched on line and I can't find it. I would like to read the exact wording of it.

I know it's not a law in the schools where I interpret.
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Edit... I'm being little misunderstood about this law is unconstitutional but most public school are support them, even almost no exception and enforce on all students but I know that out of west coast and inner west are same thing, even based on school policies that support their law. I think it's not real one for them to follow, just give a support...

For my school, I think it was under LA school district policy that which ban all students to tell under "God" when plefge on US flags since found that law is unconstitutional for enforce over 9th Ninth Circuit.
 
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