Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?

[Chase]

But in 'Conversation with Crito' he made a point that it was the government's responsibility in educating the youth.

Therefore if the youth are resistant to knowledge, it's the fault of the government for not breaking down the resistance since the government is the people?

I don’t know that we can make a hard-and-fast syllogism from your interpretation of another scholar’s translation of Plato’s remembered “conversations” of his teacher, Socrates.

Going to the original Greek, many believe that “government” or “state” are modern constructs for what Socrates called “a gathering of the educated citizenry.” Remember, at this time, a person couldn’t even vote or hold office until he was at least 30 years old. Youth didn’t have the power it has today.

Maybe a safer translation of the Socratic position on education is that the educated elder citizens had a responsibility to provide a rounded education (which at the time included poetic, musical, athletic, and fighting skills). His complaint was that many youth wanted it “now” without putting in the necessary time and effort.

Sound familiar?

As was Socrates’s way, putting forth the idea itself would most likely serve to overcome resistance of those who might think themselves otherwise entitled.

 

[Byrdie714]

I don’t know that we can make a hard-and-fast syllogism from your interpretation of another scholar’s translation of Plato’s remembered “conversations” of his teacher, Socrates.

Going to the original Greek, many believe that “government” or “state” are modern constructs for what Socrates called “a gathering of the educated citizenry.” Remember, at this time, a person couldn’t even vote or hold office until he was at least 30 years old. Youth didn’t have the power it has today.

Maybe a safer translation of the Socratic position on education is that the educated elder citizens had a responsibility to provide a rounded education (which at the time included poetic, musical, athletic, and fighting skills). His complaint was that many youth wanted it “now” without putting in the necessary time and effort.

Sound familiar?

As was Socrates’s way, putting forth the idea itself would most likely serve to overcome resistance of those who might think themselves otherwise entitled.

Could be.

Of course it was Socrate's idea of going against the state since he did not agree with the laws that got him executed. Of course he could have worked with the government but didn't.

There is always a reaction for every action.

 

[Chase]

Most scholars of western democracies agree that Socrates's point in willingly accepting hemlock was that an individual’s duty to his own principles far outweighed duty to a totalitarian state.

Of course those favoring dictatorships tend to disagree.

 

[Byrdie714]

Most scholars of western democracies agree that Socrates's point in willingly accepting hemlock was that an individual’s duty to his own principles far outweighed duty to a totalitarian state.

Of course those favoring dictatorships tend to disagree.

The state in this case wasn't totalitarian. It was a democracy.

 

[Chase]

The state in this case wasn't totalitarian. It was a democracy.

Not so. Socrates, the individual (or Socrates, a personification of those who taught Plato and Xenophon and the protagonist in plays by Aristophanes) lived in time of political and religious upheaval in Athens, when democracy suffered heavy criticism and rejection of many of its original tenets by those in power.

It’s this fall from the personal freedoms of democracy which Socrates is said to have protested by drinking poison.

But of course as scholar of Socratic ethics, you know this, as well as the ignoble tactic to forever beg the question.

 

[Byrdie714]

Not so. Socrates, the individual (or Socrates, a personification of those who taught Plato and Xenophon and the protagonist in plays by Aristophanes) lived in time of political and religious upheaval in Athens, when democracy suffered heavy criticism and rejection of many of its original tenets by those in power.

It’s this fall from the personal freedoms of democracy which Socrates is said to have protested by drinking poison.

But of course as scholar of Socratic ethics, you know this, as well as the ignoble tactic to forever beg the question.

Thus the Fall of Athens begins....

 

[VamPyroX]

I have never thought about this way when watching old movies. I rarely watch old movies.

But I recall one old movie called "Safe Fail" (I think) where it is based on era of Cold War. It's interesting to see president's response to if we accidentally hit Russia. What will we do to make up for it, to avoid the war. I am pretty sure that our views are different today than in the past. I doubt we will do what the movie had done, and the movie tried to make America look more noble than it really is. We know what's America like after we got attacked on 9/11. When we suddenly realize that not everyone like US.

What old movies do you recommend me to try?

I liked spoof movies as well. It's always fun to guess which incident/movie that the scene was based on.

You talking about Fail Safe?

Fail-Safe & - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a good old television series (not a movie)... called The Prisoner... a television series from 1967.

This guy is a secret agent who abruptly resigns. While packing up, he falls asleep. When he wakes up, he finds himself in a small village with no way out and surrounded by people who don't have names... just numbers "Number 6", "Number 33", etc. It's a battle of wits between him and people who try to trick him out of unknown information.

The Prisoner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Reba]

You talking about Fail Safe?

Fail-Safe & - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a good old television series (not a movie)... called The Prisoner... a television series from 1967.

This guy is a secret agent who abruptly resigns. While packing up, he falls asleep. When he wakes up, he finds himself in a small village with no way out and surrounded by people who don't have names... just numbers "Number 6", "Number 33", etc. It's a battle of wits between him and people who try to trick him out of unknown information.

The Prisoner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I love The Prisoner! I bought the whole VHS set (need to upgrade to DVD) years ago, and I have a book about the series. (I was a fan of Secret Agent also.)

"I am not a number...."

 

[VamPyroX]

I love The Prisoner! I bought the whole VHS set (need to upgrade to DVD) years ago, and I have a book about the series. (I was a fan of Secret Agent also.)

"I am not a number...."

I saw a few minutes of a documentary on television talking about the history behind The Prisoner in 2004. Just from seeing those few minutes, I was already very curious about the show. However, I never got to find out what the name of the show was. Well, a few years later, I was at a restaurant with a few friends to see WWE PPV. We brought up the subject of old shows and I remembered this one. So, I asked a friend and he remembered since he had a few of the shows on VHS.

As soon as I got the name, I immediately added it to my queue for Blockbuster Online. Whew!