Another ignorant question from a hearing person

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Squirt

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I'm almost sure this is going to backfire into my face, but it's a question I've been wondering about for a long time now, and after looking around a little here, I feel like this might be an ok place to ask and maybe get some insight. Or possibly not. I'm hoping no one "jumps out at me" but if someone does, I guess I can always just leave the website, right? No harm, no foul.

Anyway... From what I understand, a lot of you, really think it's great when a hearing person tries to communicate. But then I've also seen posts (not just here, and I was really debating putting this in because I don't want to ask to cite anything, maybe the person was just having an off day and feeling irritated at being asked the same thing over and over or something, I don't know) where the people seem to think they're...better than (most) hearing people, as a community maybe? I'm probably misunderstanding something. I'm getting mixed messages, and on one hand I'm seeing "I would love to talk with you, if you've taken the time to try and learn my language" but then on the other I'm getting the exact opposite, a "I want nothing to do with (ignorant) hearing people," and I realize not every person is the same, deaf, HOH, or hearing--and maybe they all WON'T want to talk to me, or maybe they'll be frustrated that my signing is terrible, or maybe they'll just have no interest in talking with me at all, for no real reason.

If you'd rather not interact with hearing people as much as possible, can you tell me why? Did we try to shout at you, did we try signing and acting like a show off but you couldn't understand us, or were we pitying or making ourselves seem like we're better? I'm just looking for some insight into this, you know, beyond the "be proud of who you are" thing.

This was probably the worst way to write this. I'm not good with words, and I don't want anyone to dislike me, but I've also heard the deaf are more likely to talk about things "as they are" without any sugar coating...so I guess we'll see.
 
Why do you want to talk to me? Did I meet you while I was out with my dog and you have the same kind of dog?

Do we see each other all the time in the same section of the bookstore devoted to city maps?

Do we have the exact same pair of really weird Converse shoes and you can't believe you found another afficianado?

Or do you just want to run up to me when I am eating dinner and show that you can sign, "Hi, my name is...."
 
Actually, my honors thesis is on this particular phenomenon. So you are not alone in wondering. :)

I still can't give you a straight answer, but a lot of books I've read say that it's because a) it's a lot of effort and b) discrimination. I personally think the latter's a load of crock. Not to say the Deaf haven't been discriminated against (they have), but when I got that answer, I immediately replied back "You do realize you're speaking to a Jewish person, right? I'm not bitter about the discrimination I've received." :giggle:

I'm not quite late-deafened, but I am an oralist, so I went to the Deaf club not knowing much sign language and kind of sat there awkwardly because I was waved off when I signed "I don't sign well. I read lips, but I'm willing to learn." Now, a nice man did help me, but I was left feeling very unwelcome and frustrated other than that instance.

I think it really comes down to effort and having a feeling of a closed, "tightly knit" community. I don't feel either is right, but that's just my two cents.
 
:wave:hey squirt, there are many types of backgrounds, age, environment, family values, abuses, secluded, crazy, dumb, race, education, flipfloppers, angry, happy people here who also have one thing in common....hearing loss in many levels. And we use asl! How many groups can u find with so diverse variety yet be in common.. so don't take it personal. Enjoy with a grain of salt. Personally its peoples personality I'm drawn to. And at same time I share same struggles that all deaf face. U are free to express your thoughts and questions. Enjoy...:gossip:
 
What I find is some people are more receptive than others. Some are willing to sign with anybody and other's not so much. It's just like with the hearing community, some people will talk with a total stranger who comes up and says "Hey, I really like that top you have on!" or "Man what a cute baby.", but then others make you feel like you invaded their space. I try to remember that there are some people who have a phobia of strangers or something like that. I am new to ASL and still learning. While originally my Deaf club was not very receptive to my inability to sign, they are more receptive and accepting now, since they know of more and more in my footsteps in this area. I saw a couple last week while at the library who were signing to each other and stopped by the table. I waited until they acknowledged me and they were aware that was not trying to "listen in" on their conversation. I very calmly asked them in my minimal ASL skills if they would be willing to help me for just a minute with a few questions. they invited me to sit and for a a good solid 30 minutes they signed with we, very slowly and I learned so much from them. I was also able to tell them of both our Deaf club and the Deaf church as they are new to the area. What a surprise to see them at the Deaf church this past Sunday.

Now, on the flip side, I had a hearing person try to sign to me and instead they made it look like they were playing at it. They obviously knew nothing about ASL or PSE. Since it was more of a mocking than anything, I just signed "sorry, going now" and left.
 
I think Bottesini answered this question very well. If you approach anyone and want to interact with them simply because they are a curiousity to you or a 'testing ground' for some idea, then, naturally, they will either be offended or simply blow you off. However, if you want to communicate with someone because you have something in common to begin with (a natural connection) of some sort, then the other person is much more open to meeting/interacting with you.

We can't assume that someone who is deaf or signs is interested in talking with everyone else who is deaf/signs. Just like we can't assume every one who is hearing and speaks english wants to talk to everyone else who is hearing/speaks english ;-).
 
As a Deaf person, I just read body language on what you are saying but also want to talk to you in writing down on paper with pen so that we can communicate better. Lipreading is not perfect and not accurate. I tried to read people's lips but it just make me frustrated trying to understand. That is why I want to sign ASL to communicate so that I can understand what Deaf people and ASL interpreters say.

Yes, we, d/Deafies, are being discriminate because they want us to talk with oral only and not allow us to get jobs. They also expect us to use phone to communicate which we can not use. They won't let us have ASL interpreters like meetings or use Video phone or TDD (Telecommunication Device for the Deaf) to work with other people. We call hearing people as Audists because they don't understand us being d/Deaf, even hard of hearing. We know we are not alone as much as other disability people had the same problem as we do.

If you don't want to sign with us to communicate, then just write down on paper and pen to communicate. That helps. Also don't tell us "never mind" when I ask what is funny or what you and other people talk about. :roll:
 
As you said "a tight knit community". We do enjoy our meetings and socials together very much. Often we get 1 timers and drop ins and the looky lous who are not serious and don't come back. Why bother to invest our time and emotions? Well, find out. Keep going back, smile, keep trying. If you are really interested, if you really want to make friends, show us. You would be surprised how very warm and cordial we can be to someone we have come to trust. Show you are trustworthy and not there to look at the zoo critters. (understand what I mean?)
 
Squirt, I understand what you mean. Im still learning ASL and there is so much I still don't understand. I've met some deaf/ hard of hearing people that were pleased that I'm learning and some that are not. I've met so many that oppose interpretors . If you think about it too hard your head will hurt, you will be angry and aggrevated, and decide not to continue learning. During the summer (and part of this semester), my aggrevation caused me to walk away from ASL and my dream of interpreting. Now I realize that few negative remarks, looks, etc isn't worth giving up something I'm interested in. You're new to this and everyone feel a little ackward when experiencing something new. Whatever you do in life, there will be people that won't like or want you around for some reason. In this case, it could be because you're hearing; that's not something you can control.

Its easy to tell someone not to take it to heart but if you're like me, you will. Just keep your motivation for learning ASL in your mind and draw strength from that. Mine is that I want to learn and become an interpretor (amonst many things). So, that's all I pay attention to.
 
KristinaB said:
What I find is some people are more receptive than others. Some are willing to sign with anybody and other's not so much. It's just like with the hearing community, some people will talk with a total stranger who comes up and says "Hey, I really like that top you have on!" or "Man what a cute baby.", but then others make you feel like you invaded their space. I try to remember that there are some people who have a phobia of strangers or something like that. I am new to ASL and still learning. While originally my Deaf club was not very receptive to my inability to sign, they are more receptive and accepting now, since they know of more and more in my footsteps in this area. I saw a couple last week while at the library who were signing to each other and stopped by the table. I waited until they acknowledged me and they were aware that was not trying to "listen in" on their conversation. I very calmly asked them in my minimal ASL skills if they would be willing to help me for just a minute with a few questions. they invited me to sit and for a a good solid 30 minutes they signed with we, very slowly and I learned so much from them. I was also able to tell them of both our Deaf club and the Deaf church as they are new to the area. What a surprise to see them at the Deaf church this past Sunday.

Now, on the flip side, I had a hearing person try to sign to me and instead they made it look like they were playing at it. They obviously knew nothing about ASL or PSE. Since it was more of a mocking than anything, I just signed "sorry, going now" and left.
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"What I find is some people are more receptive than others. Some are willing to sign with anybody and other's not so much."
I find this true with hearing people ,I am HOH and some hearing will take the time to talk to me and try their best to understand my speech. There will people that do not want to take time to talk to me as they find my speech too hard to understand and they are wondering what is wrong with me!
 
Bottesini said:
Why do you want to talk to me? Did I meet you while I was out with my dog and you have the same kind of dog?

Do we see each other all the time in the same section of the bookstore devoted to city maps?

Do we have the exact same pair of really weird Converse shoes and you can't believe you found another afficianado?

Or do you just want to run up to me when I am eating dinner and show that you can sign, "Hi, my name is...."
Click to expand...

Maybe.

Maybe I love the way you have your hair done, and want to know where you get it done.

Maybe I like your purse, or want to ask if you know directions to someplace, or maybe you look like someone I used to know.

Or maybe I'm just bored and making smalltalk. I do that sometimes. I do all those things, actually. I'm a very friendly, talkative person. So why should I stop and hold back once I realize the person I've just spoken to is deaf, if I CAN communicate, albeit badly?

I know it must be really annoying when people DO come up to say "hi my name is...," but that sentence right there seems like it would drive a lot of people away from ever WANTING to try and chat.
 
Journey said:
I think Bottesini answered this question very well. If you approach anyone and want to interact with them simply because they are a curiousity to you or a 'testing ground' for some idea, then, naturally, they will either be offended or simply blow you off. However, if you want to communicate with someone because you have something in common to begin with (a natural connection) of some sort, then the other person is much more open to meeting/interacting with you.

We can't assume that someone who is deaf or signs is interested in talking with everyone else who is deaf/signs. Just like we can't assume every one who is hearing and speaks english wants to talk to everyone else who is hearing/speaks english ;-).
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That I understand completely. I do agree with you and Bottesini, but I think I received it better from you. Sorry if I came off rude to you, Bottesini. I know I wouldn't want to be used as a testing ground, and your last paragraph is very true and helps me understand more because I can relate to it. I met someone through craigslist that was looking for an english "tutor" (not really, just someone who spoke english natively to chat with now and then) and one way or another a ton of non-english speaking people kept coming up to me, and after a while it got frustrating.

So that helps me understand a lot, thanks.
 
You're welcome Squirt. Your question is a common one asked so many who begin learning sign language. If you are taking ASL classes, I think the best way to find others who are willing to 'practice' signing with you is to ask your teacher if he/she knows of anyone who would be willing to meet with you. They are your best resource at this point as they will, most likely, have connections with other ASL students and/or deafies who are open to meeting and helping out deaf culture 'newbies'. Good luck and never be afraid to ask questions! Just remember, most questions do not offend people, it is HOW the question is asked that could be offensive :).
 
basically everything that LDNanna said.. if you really want to be friends with us then show us by becoming involved with the deaf community. learn ASL and don't ever give up when trying to communicate with us. it will show us that you take us seriously and we will welcome you :)
 
Often we get 1 timers and drop ins and the looky lous who are not serious and don't come back. Why bother to invest our time and emotions?
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How about - don't judge a book by its cover?

Maybe majority of the "looky lous" are not coming back
precisely because of their bad experience,
just exactly what someone described here:

I'm not quite late-deafened, but I am an oralist, so I went to the Deaf club not knowing much sign language and kind of sat there awkwardly because I was waved off when I signed "I don't sign well. I read lips, but I'm willing to learn." Now, a nice man did help me, but I was left feeling very unwelcome and frustrated other than that instance.
Click to expand...


Something to mull about...


Fuzzy
 
This is very disheartening

Ok so i know i am probably going to be ripped to shreds for posting this, but thats ok to me. First off i just want to say this is not meant to offend anyone at all and its just my opinions....

The fact that there is a section on this website called "Another ignorant question from a hearing person" just wants to make me cry. I am not deaf but i have deaf and hoh people in my family and also friends(who i consider my family) as well. I feel this is statement is ridiculous. Not all hearing people are ignorant and mean and the same goes for deaf people. Not all people are nice and not all are mean no matter what their difference is from the social norms of society. You have to understand that if you have never been exposed to deaf culture then how are you supposed to know anything about it? You are not born with this knowledge of deaf society and if you want people to learn about deaf culture then you can not be so critical of them and understand that we are ALL human, we all make mistakes but that doesnt mean that we are not willing to learn from them.

I am on my second year learning ASL and to be honest some of these comments make me want to quit. I dont want to be treated like an ignorant fool just because i was not born deaf. I can not express how much i WANT to learn about the deaf culture and learn ASL. I am trying very hard to learn ASL.

To be honest i was terrified to go to my first deaf event. I was scared that i wouldnt remember my signs and that someone would be offended at my attempt to communicate. I felt very isolated:sadwave: because no one would take the time to understand that i am new to this and i am still learning. I actually went home and cried after a deaf person was talking crap about me(i had my hoh friend with me who was raised with ASL and english and told me what they were saying). BUT i kept going again and again to the events because i know NOT ALL deaf people were going to treat me that way....i understand that some hearing people are jerks, but thats going to be in every culture all over the world.

I would really hope that people remember to treat others the way you want to be treated, and dont judge a book by its cover.

and again this was not meant to offended anyone and if it did you have my sincerest apologies:grouphug:...its a horrible feeling to feel unwanted...
 
KDaniels - You are trying to put us in a really weird spot. You are obviously offended by our comments/experiences with ignorant hearing people. Yet you tell us not to be offended by your comments.

Ok, I am making the choice not to be offended. :)

You are so hung up on not offending someone that you forget to take some risks. Life is all about taking risks. Should I get out of bed? should I drive to work? should I eat this yogert that was left out all night? Should I talk to the new person that just showed up? Take a risk and talk with people. If someone is offended, smile politely and thank them for helping you to understand their perspective better.

You gain nothing by sitting back in a corner cowering. If you really want to learn the culture and language, then you are going to have to swim in it.

Finally... remember, you (not someone else) get to decide how you feel and react to something. Yes, it is ok to change your mind later. Never apologize for having an opinion.
 
^^^Agree. And above all, don't take things so seriously!

I also went to my first deaf event (WITHOUT a friend). I did my best, watched a lot, and signed that I was "the new hearing idiot" with a big grin on my face. That did more to break the ice than anything else.

It's being said in a sense of fun. If you were to talk to a blind person, and as asked "do you see what I mean?", would you keep going or be all worried that you said "see" to a blind person?

In the end, we're all ignorant when we're trying to enter an environment we're not used to. Don't take offense at the precise wording used, that's not the place to focus on. Keep your sense of humor, keep your determination, and you'll be fine.
 
The word "ignorant" shouldn't be offensive - it's simply means that someone isn't learned/educated in regards to something.

Ignorance is lack of knowledge but not in anyway connected in any way to one's intellect. Calling oneself/someone ignorant is not at all the same thing as calling oneself/someone 'stupid' ... although for some reason many people mistakenly connect the two concepts.

If you are reading threads such as "Another ignorant* question from a hearing person", and deciding it's the same as saying "Another stupid question from a [stupid] hearing person" - then you're reading and understanding it incorrectly.


EVERYONE has things they are ignorant about ... the only way to transition from ignorance to knowledge is to admit that you don't understand/know something, then ask questions and become open to learning (from educated sources) about that/those topics.


* "ignorant" in this context referring to someone who doesn't have knowledge/experience what it's like to be Hoh, d/Deaf or about signed languages etc.
 
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