Annoying ignorant hearing people stories

Green;
Yes, I would be willing to engage in a discussion of majority-to-minority rudeness. Although the statement would be more toward the CURRENT discrimination by race. Historically, I do not think the theory applies. And I never said WHITE people are rude by nature. I suspect people are prone to be inconsiderate of what they fear. I would be interested, engaged, and happy to have this discussion with your proverbial 'room of people.' PROVIDED ONLY that the people I talked to were interested in discourse. I have, in fact, HAD this discussion with many AA friends -- granted, not a room of 50-100; discussions are harder that way (without a really skilled facilitator). I suppose I have no understanding at all of why you would think I SHOULDN'T be willing?!!

And, to be frank, I have no goal of "winning points." I'm not living a video game or a popularity contest. I am a curious, thinking, questioning person. I enjoy wrestling with tough, even uncomfortable, questions. I do not think there is any other way to grow and learn and improve.

Moreover, I am getting the distinct feeling that the statement "I do not agree" is either 1) some sort of insult in Deaf culture that I do not know about or 2) some sort of insult within the subculture of this forum that I was unaware of or 3) some unfortunate change in the greater culture as a whole wherein people no longer know how to discuss differences of opinion. (I have actually been thinking about #3 for a while in relativity to social media. I have yet to come to any conclusions. But I have had some awesome and enlightening conversations with people who think said theory unfounded.) Regardless of which, I find this all very sad. I am profoundly disappointed. I would be utterly bored if everyone agreed with me and me with them all the time. To me, that seems akin to torture!

Anyway, I have obviously upset people by:
a) asking for clarification and data behind a statement that was posed as statistical fact.
b) disagreeing that said data supported the conclusions
and c) therefore concluding insufficient evidence to NOT reject the NULL hypothesis.

The scientist in me is completely baffled. I am sorry you are offended. I am not sorry for the difference of opinion. However, I think it is best that I, sadly, leave you to your "venting." If anyone is ACTUALLY open to discussion and exploration of ideas and culture, please kindly invite me to a different string of posts.
 
Botti;
Again, I am very sorry that you feel this an 'argument.' I simply cannot fathom why the statement "I disagree" is so very provocative. And yet, I am going to say it again. <preparing for the fire> It is not at all helpful to say to someone who is ASKING for clarification and WANTS to understand: 'I am unwilling to help you understand because you aren't exactly like me. You CANNOT understand until you are.' That is, essentially saying that no-one can ever understand anyone who is different in any way. (And, I would argue, leads to a further conclusion that the Deaf can never understand the Hearing and make statements about WHY they are rude/inconsiderate. Which I find nonsensical. But, this line of thinking seems to support it.) How very painful and sad. That is akin to saying that I should not read about diabetes or histoplasmosis or the Israel / Palestine conflict or the various theories on homelessness. I should not be curious about these things, or meet people affected by them, or ask said people about these things. I should not ask WHY? Because I will never have any understanding until I am a diabetic, homeless, arab-israeli.

And here I am talking again. Darn. <backing out slowly, hands in the air, complete disappointment on face> Enjoy your venting.
 
teamint said:
Grayma;
I have no problem with "venting." I never implied that I did. And I agree completely with the point you make that Deaf people experience rudeness through the lens of Deafness. That makes sense. I did not agree, however, with Green's statement that "Hearing people say inconsiderate things to everyone, but when it is aimed towards us deaf/HOH people, it is usually because we are deaf/HOH." When asked to clarify said statement (as you can re-read above), the clarification did not add anything new to my thinking.
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It's not his job to add something new to your thinking.

Hearing people who are rude do target their rudeness toward the area that they are ignorant about, troubled about, irritated by, frustrated by, caught by surprise by - in short, the thing that is different. So of course the general rudeness of the majority of human beings is esssentially narrowed and focused on deafness when it's a deaf person who has annoyed, frustrated, surprised, inconvenienced, irritated, etc. them.

I have gotten a lot of obnoxious comments from rude people about the size of our family Yes, they made those comments because they were jerks. But it was our seven children they focused on.

Green doesn't have to defend his comment to you. It's his life, his experience, and he knows better than you whether his responses are based in fact or feelings (unless Green is a she, then change pronouns). It's kind of bizarre for a stranger on the internet who has no experience of living with deafness to decide he or she can diagnose the root causes of a rude person's behavior (behavior you know of third hand) better than the person who was there and lives with the condition.
 
teamint said:
Green;


Moreover, I am getting the distinct feeling that the statement "I do not agree" is either 1) some sort of insult in Deaf culture that I do not know about or 2) some sort of insult within the subculture of this forum that I was unaware of or 3) some unfortunate change in the greater culture as a whole wherein people no longer know how to discuss differences of opinion. (I have actually been thinking about #3 for a while in relativity to social media. .
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You have no basis for disagreement. These are not your experiences. You are not even a witness to the events. You are hearing about them third-hand and deciding you have enough evidence from your position as a reader of posts on a computer to determined that you know *more* about what another person has actually experienced first hand than he does.

That's annoying in any culture.
 
teamint said:
But I have had some awesome and enlightening conversations with people who think said theory unfounded.....

Anyway, I have obviously upset people by:
a) asking for clarification and data behind a statement that was posed as statistical fact.
b) disagreeing that said data supported the conclusions
and c) therefore concluding insufficient evidence to NOT reject the NULL hypothesis.
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What you are looking for is scientific evidence (proof) that such behavior exists among people. It is like telling black people that there really is no concrete evidence that discrimination is directed towards them because they are black...therefore their arguments that "the white folk are doing this to us 'cuz we are black" are null and void.

We cannot provide you with scientific evidence, but we can provide you with common sense. If that is not enough to satisfy your theories, then so be it.

By the way, I am a middle-aged male that has been profoundly deaf for 40 years, and had to deal with years of being bullied and mocked by....who else but... hearing people!!!!

I should bring you along to some of the job interviews I've done. On paper, my experience as an application engineer is a big plus, and employers get all excited to meet me, they meet me, we talk the talk for awhile, then I break the news to them: I am legally deaf. Suddenly, their excitement fades....then the questions begin..."How can you be able to do this if you can't hear?"...in the end, I never hear from them again. They end up hiring some clueless kid and spend thousands to train him, and yet that kid ends up getting fired anyway.

You don't need an advanced degree in psychology to see that this is a subtle form of discrimination....usually directed towards the deaf. But, oh, no, you are right!! There is no proof!!........ No one actually said that they would not hire me because I am deaf. They are not stupid.

(Well, actually one of our ex-supervisors told me in my face once that I should not be working in the office because I can't hear on the Nextel. Never mind that I've been doing this for many years prior).

See where I am going?

I am not offended, just frustrated at the typical hearing-people-in-denial-about-deaf-people bullshit.
 
Green and Grayma;
Please see Wrestling with Angels thread if you would like to continue said discussion WITH me. This thread, I have been informed, is for a different purpose.
 
Isn't there a slight problem with "wrestling with Angles"-are "they" pure spirits? Thus hard to wrestle-so it seems.

Not to venture into theology
 
drphil said:
Isn't there a slight problem with "wrestling with Angles"-are "they" pure spirits? Thus hard to wrestle-so it seems.

Not to venture into theology
Click to expand...

I am so not going to go there, but thanks for the funny drphil. :laugh2:
 
KristinaB said:
Okay - here's another one.

Went to my local tag office to apply for a lost title for our Explorer. Hubby went with me as we are both on the title. After checking in and getting our number to wait for help, we get called up to the window. Get there and the lady was polite to begin with asking what we needed. Then she proceeds to tell us that we can't do what we needed since the letter stating the loan was paid off has one version of the company name and the lien on the title was a different version of the name. We explain that it's all the same company. She then goes into a long oration on something, I still do not know what she said. I very calmly explained that I was deaf and needed to read her lips, to please slow down and calm down. Well, she jumped up and ranted about the State of Florida allowing deaf people to drive. She caused enough of a ruckus that all the supervisors are running out and the Sheriff's officer in the waiting room (armed guard from the Sheriff's Office) came up and asked what the problem was. She asked him i9f it was in fact true that deaf people were allowed to drive and why do I have my name on a title for a vehicle if I am deaf. Well, the officer very calmly explained to her that deaf people can in fact be legally able to drive and that facts show they are safer drivers than hearing people. HE asked me about our vehicles and asked me to explain to her what the requirements were so that he knew I was aware. I explained that I had to have both outside mirrors and obviously the rearview mirror. He said I was right and asked which car was mine in the lot. Hubby took him out and the officer duly noted that I did have my handicapped placard in place (I have it for my fibromyalgia and rollator use) and that I had all mirrors in place and I also have a card in the visor stating that I am deaf for any officer that may pull me over. The worker just kept going on about deaf drivers that she refused to do her job. She was relieved of duty and the supervisor completed our transaction.
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That has happened to me before too.


The other day, I was minding my own business, walking to my car in a strip mall parking lot when this man started staring at me and smiling. He hesitantly walked up to me and asked if I was wearing hearing aids. I told him yes, that they were hearing aids. He then hesitantly asked if he could lay hands on me and pray for healing.

Now ... years ago, that would have absolutely offended me. Now-a-days ... I see it as someone actually cared. Hard to explain.
 
teamint said:
Botti;
Again, I am very sorry that you feel this an 'argument.' I simply cannot fathom why the statement "I disagree" is so very provocative. And yet, I am going to say it again. <preparing for the fire> It is not at all helpful to say to someone who is ASKING for clarification and WANTS to understand: 'I am unwilling to help you understand because you aren't exactly like me. You CANNOT understand until you are.' That is, essentially saying that no-one can ever understand anyone who is different in any way. (And, I would argue, leads to a further conclusion that the Deaf can never understand the Hearing and make statements about WHY they are rude/inconsiderate. Which I find nonsensical. But, this line of thinking seems to support it.) How very painful and sad. That is akin to saying that I should not read about diabetes or histoplasmosis or the Israel / Palestine conflict or the various theories on homelessness. I should not be curious about these things, or meet people affected by them, or ask said people about these things. I should not ask WHY? Because I will never have any understanding until I am a diabetic, homeless, arab-israeli.

And here I am talking again. Darn. <backing out slowly, hands in the air, complete disappointment on face> Enjoy your venting.
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Teamint - you have to keep in mind that asking a person whom is Deaf/HoH to explain with clarity directly to you about their condition is a) impossible and b) previously attempted a gajillion times to a gajillion different people by said Deaf/HoH individual.

This may be the first time you have asked these questions, but it is the gajillionth time we have "heard" them.

The answers you seek cannot even be explained to "hearing" family members of the Deaf/HoH.

So yes, Botti is exactly correct, you must experience it to understand and she was not being condenscending. She was telling you the truth.
 
Here's another thing about dealing with the general public, particularly from a position of minority. Just as it is human nature to sometimes be a jerk, it is human nature that we notice, absorb, remember, dwell on, the jerkiness more than routine civility.

If I am out shopping with my disabled child and all but one person we meet behaves in normal fashion, does nothing to cause attention, but one person says loudly, "I don't think people like that should be out in public." That's the person I remember, that's the person who set the tone of my day, that is the person I will need to come home and vent about.

I went to a family conference once where everybody, so far as I recall, behaved just fine. ONE person visited with me for a few minutes, asked me nosy questions about my handicapped child who was there with me, and then said, "Too bad you didn't she was disabled when you were pregnant so you could have had an abortion."

Ten years later, that is still the only comment I remember from that day.

Hence the purpose and need for threads like this anywhere a minority population gathers.
 
RoseRodent said:
"But you heard that!" about anything and everything. No, I appeared to hear you droning on at me about goodness knows what because I nodded my head a bit here and there. I presumed that person was making small talk because he moved his mouth at me so I answered with a generic response which covers everything from "Cold out today" to "I hate getting up this early". I left when the fire alarm went off because everyone else left, I followed them. I'm not a moron. Equally "She heard that" about my daughter. Yes, she understands me, her mother whom she sees every day of her life, when I bang on the floor for her to face me, beckon her over close and let her look at me while I talk loudly to her. Not the same as being able to hear anything and everything.
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OMG. I have to deal with this constantly and it is SO annoying. Similarly, I also get the "but there are plenty of other times you hear me JUST FINE so how am I supposed to know?" The reality is, I maybe hear "just fine" 1 out of 5 times (and the majority of that is just a good guess based on other cues) ... How in the HELL is that justification for not making an effort to make sure they communicate with me properly? SO frustrating. Hello, I. AM. FRICKING. DEAF. You should ALWAYS treat me as such REGARDLESS of whether or not I "hear/understand" things sometimes. :mad2: **bangs head on wall**
 
Cheetah said:
I got one just happened today... I fact it happened twice today. I flew Delta for a business trip and when I got off the first aircraft there was a wheelchair waiting for me. I thought it was funny and just ignored it. I transferred to another plane and arrived at my destination. When I got off the second plane, again there was someone waiting for me with a wheel chair. Ok, still funny but also very stupid. One time ok, y'all are making a mistake, twice then you got a problem with your own system. I put in a note that I am deaf just in case there is a delay or emergency hopefully someone will tell me what's up. I don't really enjoy seeing the wheel chair. I'm deaf. Not disabled. My appologies to everyone reading this that has mobility issues and use a wheelchair. Honestly if I needed a wheelchair, I would put down wheelchair not deaf. Let's all use some common sense... Oops, yeah right, it's Delta we're talking about here.
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I haven't flown since my early 20's, but I flew a lot my whole life before then. My mom always insisted on telling the airline people that I was deaf. I don't know why, I guess she hoped that if something happened to her an attendant would take care of me or something. But anyway, nearly every single time, they had a wheelchair for me. It was really embarrassing for me. They told us that it was "mandatory" that they provide wheelchair if a disability is noted, no matter the disability. :roll:

The worst was when they INSISTED I USE the wheelchair. They MADE me sit in it and be wheeled around. This happened 3 or 4 times. :shock: And to add insult to injury, whenever it happened before I was grown, my mother made me "go along with it" just to not raise a fuss. Ugh.
 
God I've missed this place! :) It's been a while since I posted but a hearing person did make me cry several days ago. Typically I don't react emotionally or try not to but this was on one of the days I was feeling down in the dumps to begin with. I was conversing with someone I work with because she had inquired about what I do outside of work and if I had any friends. I of course proudly proclaimed that I did not have any friends and gave a big smile. She asked me why and it's not something that is a big secret to those who know me personally but I just prefer not to have friends. I'm 30 years old and have been friendless by choice since I was 16 years old after I got tired of being left out by the hearing and trying to socialize with the hearing. They do not get my quirks, my way of saying things or my bluntness and this person was NO exception. She then asked me why and I explained to her figuring that if she was asking she must be intelligent enough to at least comprehend what I really meant. When I told her that due to growing up Deaf and dealing with the hearing I just prefer to be alone. She quipped up and asked " because they think you're stupid?". My response was as if I'd be slapped. I was offended by the question but besides that I was very, very hurt by this smile she had on her face as IF I really were dumb and it was as if she were mocking me. Had she asked the question normally-it would not have hurt so deeply. I shut down that day at work and refused to talk to anyone else. I have been gradually shutting myself off over the last couple of weeks at work because no one there "gets it". I'm Deaf-get over it and at least when gesturing or using any kind of facial expression don't forget that I can read you like a book and actions really do speak louder than words and hurt much more so. Why do the hearing think that the Deaf will not know what their body language is saying?

I can also read lips and have seen coworkers mouth to each other when I'm near. Ha! that too has hurt as well, but I get the last laugh out of that one because I know what they are saying. Talk about stupid. That is stupid....shows just how ignorant some people can be.

Next time a hearing person coworker or not inquires about my personal life and why I am the way I am-I'll refuse to go any further. The only ones that seem to fully understand are other people like me. All my friends here. :)

S.
 
When I mention to whoever I'm with needing to find a ride to/needing to schedule/going to be late to event x because of an audi appointment, somebody who happens to be in the room overhearing invariably asks "oh, so you're getting the implant?" The people asking think it's a cure (I've quizzed a few on their knowledge), so the implication that I need fixing bothers me. I'm not broken!
My new landlord also brushed me off when I asked about the volume of the doorbell and fire alarm. She kept assuring me that I'd hear them, after I told her several times in the past couple minutes that I was HOH and so my sensitivity to sound would be different from that of someone with normal hearing and would depend on whether I was wearing my HA. (I have missed both in the past in other places I've lived.)
 
Hey guys! I'm hearing, but I would like to post an "ignorant hearie" story, if that's alright.

a while back, I first became interested in ASL, and with the lack of classes near me I had to make do with fumbling and teaching myself. I had ONLY taught myself fingerspelling so far.

anyway, I was at 6 Flags with my dad, and we saw two girls standing in line signing with each other. My dad, being the ignorant dingus that he was, decided that because I know fingerspelling I'm fluent in ASL. He asked me to translate what they were saying...

I was really embarrassed. I don't know if both girls were deaf, if only one was deaf, or if they were both hearing but preferred to use ASL... but the fact that he wanted me to eavesdrop as if they were on some kind of display? I hoped they couldn't hear him, I was so embarrassed.

I'm glad I read through this whole thread.. I think its really important to know what other people have done so I don't make the same mistakes myself. I hope you guys know that there are some hearies out there that respect you!

Rachael
 
Okay, I had a doctor's appt. yesterday. I have a print out of the visit, with details of the visit, instructions from the doctor, my blood pressure & pulse results, etc. On the bottom is a list of my upcoming appts. On it was something I had not even been notified about, a telephone conference call scheduled by one of my other doctors, with a date and a time, for 10 minutes. I laughed head off. He expects a phone call through relay to talk to me is going to only take 10 minutes? :laugh2: :rofl: WRONG! Now, this doctor did fairly recent surgery on me, we have done numerous emails through the secure email system of my health provider. He knows I am HOH, etc. So, why would he do something this stupid?! :roll: I am giving him the benefit of the doubt he's just being ignorant and thoughtless. He's a surgeon, after all, so not one of my regular doctors whom I see on an ongoing basis. Still, he had to do his final informative session before operating on me, along with the anesthesiologist, in the prep room before I removed my hearing aids, which were not allowed in the operating room. (Can't write me notes I can read, either, as I had to take my glasses off, too :lol:) Can't communicate with me much in the operating room as would be his usual habit, before putting the patient under. So why in the world schedule a phone conference call?! Maybe because it's because the health plan is cutting costs. Too many patients for the # of doctors, I'm thinking. So, anything that can be done through email or phone, they do it. Which is fine. But phone is no good to me. And my cardiologist found out how long it takes to go through relay, so she does email with me, or an in person appt. now. :giggle: All my doctors know better than to try to call me to discuss any treatment, questions, etc.

So I did my respectful "education" routine with an email back to this doctor, requesting either an email as to the results of my test or an appt. in person. Even though it would cost me a copay for an appt. vs. no extra charge for email/phone contact with the doctor. Just irritating when all this was covered as to my hearing loss? He knows better. But maybe being a surgeon, he's not as close to his patients, so didn't remember? So I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and wrote him a polite email. :P Still waiting for a reply...
 
GrayEagle said:
Okay, I had a doctor's appt. yesterday. I have a print out of the visit, with details of the visit, instructions from the doctor, my blood pressure & pulse results, etc. On the bottom is a list of my upcoming appts. On it was something I had not even been notified about, a telephone conference call scheduled by one of my other doctors, with a date and a time, for 10 minutes. I laughed head off. He expects a phone call through relay to talk to me is going to only take 10 minutes? :laugh2: :rofl: WRONG! Now, this doctor did fairly recent surgery on me, we have done numerous emails through the secure email system of my health provider. He knows I am HOH, etc. So, why would he do something this stupid?! :roll: I am giving him the benefit of the doubt he's just being ignorant and thoughtless. He's a surgeon, after all, so not one of my regular doctors whom I see on an ongoing basis. Still, he had to do his final informative session before operating on me, along with the anesthesiologist, in the prep room before I removed my hearing aids, which were not allowed in the operating room. (Can't write me notes I can read, either, as I had to take my glasses off, too :lol:) Can't communicate with me much in the operating room as would be his usual habit, before putting the patient under. So why in the world schedule a phone conference call?! Maybe because it's because the health plan is cutting costs. Too many patients for the # of doctors, I'm thinking. So, anything that can be done through email or phone, they do it. Which is fine. But phone is no good to me. And my cardiologist found out how long it takes to go through relay, so she does email with me, or an in person appt. now. :giggle: All my doctors know better than to try to call me to discuss any treatment, questions, etc.

So I did my respectful "education" routine with an email back to this doctor, requesting either an email as to the results of my test or an appt. in person. Even though it would cost me a copay for an appt. vs. no extra charge for email/phone contact with the doctor. Just irritating when all this was covered as to my hearing loss? He knows better. But maybe being a surgeon, he's not as close to his patients, so didn't remember? So I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and wrote him a polite email. :P Still waiting for a reply...
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It could also have been setup by staff that has never met you and just followed standard practice.
 
Wirelessly posted

" It could also have been setup by staff that has never met you and just followed standard practice."



True except he would have to have initiated or directed it be done. Not normal procedure for someone to do it without his telling them to set it up. And should have told them to set an appt. for me to come in, etc. Besides the fact I wasn't even aware it had been done and if I hadn't had the other doctor appt., and gotten the standard printout, I would never have known! No notification at all. How would I know to be home & answer the phone? Like, DUH! :eyeroll:
 
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