An accidental homosexuality experiment?

[Daredevel7]

Due to recent threads, I wanted to share a true story about this gay guy I know.

I went high school with this guy, James*, who was a very flamboyant gay guy who was open about his sexuality. Heck, his self proclaimed nickname was Pinky. Shortly after graduation from high school, he got into a really bad car accident and went into a coma for several days. He woke up but had amnesia (temporary). He didn't even recognize his own mother. His mom, who had never accepted his homosexuality, took this opportunity to "fix" things. She managed to convince one of James' acquaintances to pretend to be his old girlfriend. So the girl did what she was told. Not even a day later (still in the hospital), James confessed to what he thought was his old girlfriend that he is pretty sure that he is gay. He said something to the lines of "I don't remember why I was hiding it from you and I'm really sorry but... I know I'm gay." Needless to say, later on (a few weeks later), when he finally slowly gained his memory back, he was really upset at his mother for doing this to him.

I thought this was actually somewhat of a really good experiment to see if homosexuality is something that is "learned" or "felt from within".

My question to you is: "Is this true story evidence that homosexuality is something that is inherent"?

I am not looking for reasons why homosexuality is right or wrong. There is no point in that. I just want to see if you think that this story is good evidence that homosexuality is not something that is learned and why (or why not)?

 

[Reba]

True story, huh? It sounds very much like a forwarded email urban legend. How did you find out about this?

 

[jillio]

Due to recent threads, I wanted to share a true story about this gay guy I know.

I went high school with this guy, James*, who was a very flamboyant gay guy who was open about his sexuality. Heck, his self proclaimed nickname was Pinky. Shortly after graduation from high school, he got into a really bad car accident and went into a coma for several days. He woke up but had amnesia (temporary). He didn't even recognize his own mother. His mom, who had never accepted his homosexuality, took this opportunity to "fix" things. She managed to convince one of James' acquaintances to pretend to be his old girlfriend. So the girl did what she was told. Not even a day later (still in the hospital), James confessed to what he thought was his old girlfriend that he is pretty sure that he is gay. He said something to the lines of "I don't remember why I was hiding it from you and I'm really sorry but... I know I'm gay." Needless to say, later on (a few weeks later), when he finally slowly gained his memory back, he was really upset at his mother for doing this to him.

I thought this was actually somewhat of a really good experiment to see if homosexuality is something that is "learned" or "felt from within".

My question to you is: "Is this true story evidence that homosexuality is something that is inherent"?

I am not looking for reasons why homosexuality is right or wrong. There is no point in that. I just want to see if you think that this story is good evidence that homosexuality is not something that is learned and why (or why not)?

Absolutely. Homosexuality is not learned anymore than heterosexuality is learned. Why would anyone choose to learn and continue a behavior that creates such a dangerous environment for them given the view of some segments of society.
True story or no, medical evidence is strongly supportive that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, not a choice of behavior.

 

[Banjo]

True story, huh? It sounds very much like a forwarded email urban legend. How did you find out about this?

Well, you'll be surprised what people would resort to.

 

[jillio]

Well, you'll be surprised what people would resort to.

Especially "well meaning" parents. Personally, I think the mother's complete lack of respect for her son, and her dishonesty in her behavior is a much bigger issue than her son's homosexuality.

 

[dogmom]

consider:

"when did you know you were straight?"

ummmmmm...? <huh?>
just always knew...



all the people I know and myself included, explain/feel that that they/I "just knew" they were either "different" <but might not have had a name for it> and/or "not straight" from their earliest memory...as opposed to recalling an active choice to "try", "become" or "be" GBLTQ.

 

[deafskeptic]

Due to recent threads, I wanted to share a true story about this gay guy I know.

I went high school with this guy, James*, who was a very flamboyant gay guy who was open about his sexuality. Heck, his self proclaimed nickname was Pinky. Shortly after graduation from high school, he got into a really bad car accident and went into a coma for several days. He woke up but had amnesia (temporary). He didn't even recognize his own mother. His mom, who had never accepted his homosexuality, took this opportunity to "fix" things. She managed to convince one of James' acquaintances to pretend to be his old girlfriend. So the girl did what she was told. Not even a day later (still in the hospital), James confessed to what he thought was his old girlfriend that he is pretty sure that he is gay. He said something to the lines of "I don't remember why I was hiding it from you and I'm really sorry but... I know I'm gay." Needless to say, later on (a few weeks later), when he finally slowly gained his memory back, he was really upset at his mother for doing this to him.

I thought this was actually somewhat of a really good experiment to see if homosexuality is something that is "learned" or "felt from within".

My question to you is: "Is this true story evidence that homosexuality is something that is inherent"?

I am not looking for reasons why homosexuality is right or wrong. There is no point in that. I just want to see if you think that this story is good evidence that homosexuality is not something that is learned and why (or why not)?

Damn, it doesn't bode well for the son's future relationship with his mother.

 

[Daredevel7]

True story, huh? It sounds very much like a forwarded email urban legend. How did you find out about this?

Well I don't really know how to prove it to you since no one reported it or anything. All I can say is that I SWEAR on my life that it's true except for his name. But even his nickname is true. James' acquintence who pretended to be his gf? She is a friend of my good friend. (i dont want to call her my friend, i dont particularly like her). She first told us the details. Then the story spread like wildfire in my high schoo peepsl, since everyone already knew about Pinky's accident so we all were waiting to see if he'd wake up, then bam we all hear this crazy story about his mom trying to fix him.

Now he and his mom are okay, after all it's been about 10 years.

Anyway that's the best I can do. If you still don't believe me, fine, but I am wondering if you don't believe me because it's too crazy of a story or you don't want to believe it?

 

[Reba]

Well I don't really know how to prove it to you since no one reported it or anything. All I can say is that I SWEAR on my life that it's true except for his name. But even his nickname is true. James' acquintence who pretended to be his gf? She is a friend of my good friend. (i dont want to call her my friend, i dont particularly like her). She first told us the details. Then the story spread like wildfire in my high schoo peepsl, since everyone already knew about Pinky's accident so we all were waiting to see if he'd wake up, then bam we all hear this crazy story about his mom trying to fix him.

Now he and his mom are okay, after all it's been about 10 years.

Anyway that's the best I can do. If you still don't believe me, fine, but I am wondering if you don't believe me because it's too crazy of a story or you don't want to believe it?

I believe your friend's friend told you that story, yes. I'm sure that you didn't make it up.

 

[Bottesini]

I remember reading that homosexuality runs across all species pretty equally, I think about 10 percent.

If they are so much like humans , that must mean that if it isn;t just an inborn trait, they made the decision by themselves.

Therefore animals are higher thinkers, have souls and get to go to heaven.

 

[Daredevel7]

I remember reading that homosexuality runs across all species pretty equally, I think about 10 percent.

If they are so much like humans , that must mean that if it isn;t just an inborn trait, they made the decision by themselves.

Therefore animals are higher thinkers, have souls and get to go to heaven.

Of course they are high context thinkers...

 

[StSapphire]

I believe your friend's friend told you that story, yes. I'm sure that you didn't make it up.

She actually stated that the friend/acquaintance who participated told her the story, and that it was later corroborated by the actual subject of the story.

So, not a "friend of a friend of a friend", but "my friend, who claimed she herself participated". The skepticism is understandable because it does have the sound/feel of an urban legend, but from what Daredevel said, your claim essentially is that either she is lying, or two of her acquaintances lied to her. Not all that unheard of in high school, but still a stronger claim than "Oh, a friend of a friend of a friend who probably misinterpreted it as a first-person account".

I remember reading that homosexuality runs across all species pretty equally, I think about 10 percent.

If they are so much like humans , that must mean that if it isn;t just an inborn trait, they made the decision by themselves.

Therefore animals are higher thinkers, have souls and get to go to heaven.

Or humans are animals and there's no such thing as a soul or heaven.

 

[Daredevel7]

Well, I can't convince those who don't believe it (or don't want to?), but how about we make it a hypothetical situation? Is it REALLY that farfetched, anyway? I feel like a lot of parents who look down on homosexuality (or feel that it is wrong) would take this opportunity to "fix" their children. Perhaps not the way she did, but definitely make up stories "Oh yea you had lots of girlfriends... you're quite the stud!"

 

[flip]

The only reason to ask this question, is because the semitic religions have claimed modern homosexuality is against the will of God.

Once again, seculars are allowed to discuss how wrong those semitic people are, and semitic people aren't allowed to make a reply. Cowards, aren't we?

 

[Reba]

...Or humans are animals and there's no such thing as a soul or heaven.

But of course, we aren't allowed to discuss that here.

 

[StSapphire]

The only reason to ask this question, is because the semitic religions have claimed modern homosexuality is against the will of God.

Once again, seculars are allowed to discuss how wrong those semitic people are, and semitic people aren't allowed to make a reply. Cowards, aren't we?

Religiosity isn't required for someone to be homophobic, though for many people who think it is "morally wrong", it most likely stems primarily from their religion. (Note - no need to focus only on the Jewish religion, there's plenty more than that that all condemn homosexuality.)

But the thing is that people arguing in favor of equal rights for homosexuals (and further, including that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality) aren't arguing against religion. We're not arguing religion at all. We're arguing against intolerance. If those who oppose homosexuality can't do so without dipping into their fountain of faith, then they're not very likely to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with them.

But of course, we aren't allowed to discuss that here.

Just indicating the other options available.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Especially "well meaning" parents. Personally, I think the mother's complete lack of respect for her son, and her dishonesty in her behavior is a much bigger issue than her son's homosexuality.

I feel the same way! I can see why the guy is gay , with a mother like that it would be hard to trust women! I knew a guy that was gay and after I met
his mother I could see why the guy did not date women!! His mother was a bitch!! She was insulting him the whole time!

 

[Reba]

I feel the same way! I can see why the guy is gay , with a mother like that it would be hard to trust women! I knew a guy that was gay and after I met
his mother I could see why the guy did not date women!! His mother was a bitch!! She was insulting him the whole time!

Are you saying that guys become gay because of their mothers?

 

[flip]

Religiosity isn't required for someone to be homophobic, though for many people who think it is "morally wrong", it most likely stems primarily from their religion. (Note - no need to focus only on the Jewish religion, there's plenty more than that that all condemn homosexuality.)

Show me a secular homophobic person, and I'll show you his/her religious parents.

We aren't discussing if homosexuality is good or bad, but if homosexuality is something you are born into, or raised into. This discussion don't make much sense in the other world religions and their cultures. While other religions or sects maybe have a negative view on homosexuality, it does seldom matter much to them if you are born into one or if you were raised into one. Natural science also have big issues with this question, because it's too simple. This question definately have a semitic origin, with their Creator and sin in mind.

In this perspective, this is a very religious thread, where arguments from religious people are banned.

But the thing is that people arguing in favor of equal rights for homosexuals (and further, including that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality) aren't arguing against religion. We're not arguing religion at all. We're arguing against intolerance. If those who oppose homosexuality can't do so without dipping into their fountain of faith, then they're not very likely to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with them.

Again, read the question in the OP.

Just indicating the other options available.

Still a violation of the rules, because "soul" is a religious term. It does not exists in natural science.

 

[StSapphire]

Are you saying that guys become gay because of their mothers?

Sounded like he was. He was also making an incorrect statement.

Show me a secular homophobic person, and I'll show you his/her religious parents.

I know a fair number (admittedly, not a ton) of people who are not religious and were not raised religious, who are homophobic. It usually actually is a result of being raised by homophobes themselves (parents making derogatory remarks in relation to gay people, using "gay" or "fag" as an insult, etc) or raised in a chauvinistic/sexist household, where gender roles were strongly enforced/reinforced. Both of these situations can happen outside of a religious setting, and trying to limit homophobia to merely whether someone is or was raised religious or not does not contribute to the conversation.

We aren't discussing if homosexuality is good or bad, but if homosexuality is something you are born into, or raised into. This discussion don't make much sense in the other world religions and their cultures. While other religions or sects maybe have a negative view on homosexuality, it does seldom matter much to them if you are born into one or if you were raised into one. Natural science also have big issues with this question, because it's too simple. This question definately have a semitic origin, with their Creator and sin in mind.

You brought religion into the thread, and you steered it towards "is it right or wrong" by indicating that a specific religion says that it's wrong, and claimed that was the only reason for the debate.

And I'm still unsure what your focus on Judaism is - a number of major Christian denominations and Islamic denominations also denounce homosexuality as being "against their creator" or whatnot.

In this perspective, this is a very religious thread, where arguments from religious people are banned.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Arguments about religion are banned, not from religious people. Get over your persecution complex.

Again, read the question in the OP.

I was responding to the point that you brought up, not to the OP.

Still a violation of the rules, because "soul" is a religious term. It does not exists in natural science.

It's an entity that is purported to exist and presumably works as a sort of "ghost in the shell" in the form of consciousness and decision making in (people, animals, other things - choose as many as you'd like). The existence or nonexistence of things still falls under the umbrella of science. Science can tell me that there either is or isn't an invisible dragon in my garage.