Advice for Deaf Christians from email article....

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Conversion cannot be forced. A person can only change religious beliefs by totally free will--it's between that person and God. Forced conversions to my mind are akin to torture.

I think that as a Christian one SHOULD model the lifestyle (sincerely!) so that the effects are obvious to observers, and SHOULD be kind to anyone who is asking questions about their faith--even if those people present their doubts, putting them down is unacceptable. That's where I stand on this.
 
Rose Immortal said:
First question, a bit off-topic: what qualifications does one need for lay ministry, and what does the job involve? I'm trying to gain a better understanding of what work is available within the church in case my calling leads me there. I know you're probably in no mood to answer questions from me, but I thought I'd at least ask so that you or someone who knows this could tell me.


although you have the instance of the kid at Columbine who was shot for refusing to renounce Christ. But in some other countries, being a Christian is no cakewalk, that's for sure.
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Rose,

I'm always open to answer, so don't think I won't answer you or anyone else. I'm not cavalier, okay, you can ask me anything and I will be honest with you and give you an answer.

Before I do, let me cover the last paragraph you said about the kid at Columbine. I don't have the website address in front of me, but this story is not true. This girl's father has been going all over the country talking about how his daughter is a martyr, when others there said it never happened. If someone can find it and get it straight, that would be helpful.

I worked a regular job as well as attending college, so on very part-time basis would be in the ministry. That should give you an idea. I'm not being cavalier with my answer, as this is what I did.
 
Reba said:
Our Pastor strongly supports members attending Bible school and going into full-time Christian service. He is on the board of a Bible college. He frequently takes offerings to support the tuition needs of our students. He offers summer ministorial interships to the students at our church. He offers evening Bible courses at our church that have transferable credits to Bible colleges. He has established a tradition that the New Year's Sunday evening services are preached by "preacher boy" students. He has hired several young men over the years to serve as youth and assistant pastors. He has helped new evangelists and pastors of small struggling churches get established. Our Pastor strongly encourages young men to enter the ministry.
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That's good! And that's his job! He should be doing it and be thrilled with doing it. Not for his glory and honor, of course...you know what I mean.

At first read, I thought, "New Year's Eve" only? But, then again, if it's too much and too often, he may lose control and neglect his duties as pastor, which is his primary job. He has to have the control to make sure bad doctrine doesn't seep in and I'm willing to bet, if I were a betting man, that these sermons by the preacher boys have been thoroughly screened by him many times and he knows what each will preach on and make sure everything is covered correctly. Sure, there will be mistakes, stumbling over lines...that's nerves and understandable. I never, in any church, was given the opportunity to preach. So, I must then presume that the Church has the Great Commission under control and not in need of help, especially financial. Yes, I am being facetious.
 
mld4ds said:
Health, if you think I am wrong, you better pray harder and let me know if you get a right answer from your sweet lord....
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mld4ds,

I'm pinch-hitting for Heath on this one...even though the citizens have the First Amendment, freedom of religion, et al, it says nowhere that a person will not be held accountable for their actions. Case in point: If you kill someone, you will be arrested, trial and everything. According to the Bible, you and all of us are even more free than what the Constitution gives us. But, you know what else comes with that freedom? The price of the consequences. If I was arrested for a law that was contrary to the Bible...let's use example..."The Law (US Law) states that Bible reading shall be unconstitutional in any private and public place, owned by a private person or government entity thereof, including and not restrictive to churches, which shall be deemed institutions of government and any person or persons thereof seen reading or holding any form of Christian Scripture shall be put to death." Pretend it is real. According to the Bible, I have the right AND duty to disobey it, because God's laws are above man's laws.

Another example, occurring a lot during Christmas, is that employees at some companies can't say, "Merry Christmas." I will say it, because I have that right, so do you. Not only by Scripture, because Christ's name is part of it, but also because saying it is also covered under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Now, what were you grumbling about mld4ds??
 
pek1 said:
...At first read, I thought, "New Year's Eve" only?
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Not New Year's only but New Year's especially. It fits in best with the time that the students are on Christmas break from college (out of town). Also, I forgot to mention, the Pastor takes an offering for each student that preaches. The student gets 100% of the money.

...these sermons by the preacher boys have been thoroughly screened by him many times and he knows what each will preach on and make sure everything is covered correctly...
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He requires a look at their sermon outline. Of course, he also personally knows the students, and he knows the college they attend, and their professors.
 
Reba said:
Not New Year's only but New Year's especially. It fits in best with the time that the students are on Christmas break from college (out of town). Also, I forgot to mention, the Pastor takes an offering for each student that preaches. The student gets 100% of the money.


He requires a look at their sermon outline. Of course, he also personally knows the students, and he knows the college they attend, and their professors.
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Well said.
 
pek, I wrote that other post before I saw that we'd kinda (I hope) reconciled in that other thread. I was trying to give you an "out" in case you weren't in a mood to talk to me.

With that Columbine link, thanks, but whether or not that story is true actually doesn't impact the point I was making, which is that physical threats of violence against Christians in the U.S. are very rare.

About the lay ministry, that is actually good information. Knowing what part-time opportunities exist in a teaching capacity as well as full-time ones is helpful to me. :)
 
Heath, Sorry.....biased source. Doesn't count! The reporter is obviously sympathetic torwards the beleagured christians. For all we know, the Christians could have been engaged in their version of fundie feeding.

As used by the OP Christians are NOT the majority. Defined your way I guess they are. Peowple say stuff like you mentioned all the time. Beatings, and worse, will happen sooner or later. I bet they already do happen and it isn't covered in the media.



There seems to be some confusion over what is meant by the word "Christians" Apparently, the way you are using the word, and the way the OP used it, are talking about two different things. As used by the OP Christians are NOT the majority. Defined your way I guess they are. Peowple say stuff like you mentioned all the time
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Correct......the OP intisgitages that the only "real" Christians are the type who are extreme fundamentalist/ evalingical. That type of Christian IS somewhat of a minority. But just look at a census....we live in a nation where the majority ID as Christian. I mean the best selling book of all time is the Bible!

Yet so many know so little about Him! That's why I think you're statement is not true. Barna has done the surveys and they show that most people do not know much abou Jesus, other than his name, and a few fact about Him.
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Cite? What population were these surveys done on? You don't really need to know all that much about Jesus in order to follow His Teachings.
Yes, many people just have a very basic education and are holy day (Christmas and Easter) church attendees, but there are people who know quite a bit. Even many scholars do not know all that much about Him!
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deafdyke said:
...the OP intisgitages that the only "real" Christians are the type who are extreme fundamentalist/evalingical. That type of Christian IS somewhat of a minority. But just look at a census....we live in a nation where the majority ID as Christian. ..
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A real Christian is a person who has made a once-in-a-lifetime decision to repent from his/her sins and personally accept the blood sacrifice of the crucified and risen Savior Jesus Christ as the one and only complete forgiveness of those sins forever. Nothing added (not family connection, not baptism, not ceremony, not church membership)--just the one-on-one permanent relationship between the person and Jesus that saves the person from hell, and begins a lifetime commitment of obedience to the Lord, and a deeper daily relationship thru Bible study, prayer, and surrender.

People are NOT real Christians just because their parents were Christian, or just because they are not Jews or Muslims or some other religion (it is not a process of elimination), or just because they were baptised or joined a church. Those are not the things that make a real Christian.

Unfortuneately, many people now don't know the real definition of Christian, and they just "guess" or assume that they are Christian, without knowing why.

If someone is a real Christian, he/she will gladly you tell you when and where he/she accepted Christ, and the circumstances. That is called a Christian's testimony. All real Christians have a testimony (story of their experience) that they are happy to share.

You are correct, just "head" knowledge about Jesus doesn't make one a Christian.
 
Pek1, nice try that you have analyzed my pervious posts in another threads. You systematically misinterpreted what Health and I wrote......

Pek1’s Off Topic for this thread:
Another example, occurring a lot during Christmas, is that employees at some companies can't say, "Merry Christmas." I will say it, because I have that right, so do you. Not only by Scripture, because Christ's name is part of it, but also because saying it is also covered under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
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You knew perfectly well why President Bush and the First Lady can not greet everyone “Merry Christmas” except their own private family or close friends.

Native Americans as the first people in North America are not Christians.

Founding Fathers had different briefs in any religion so they created their own freedom of religions rather than putting Lord in U.S. Constitution. That’s exactly why I personally prefer to have freedoms of religion instead of ONE religion. Christian vs Jews vs Protestant vs Native Americans' Spirtuality vs ......

6,484,835,791+ humans of world population expand massively that the national governments need to establish new/updated laws to control rather than following the laws of God.

Pek1, welcome to the Nuclear/Technology ERA…
 
I wanted to add to this post--the acceptance Reba describes (pretty accurately, I think) is not one that automatically turns someone into a fundamentalist. People of all denominations can have experiences like this. I would consider myself a very moderate Christian, yet I can point to the seminal moment in my life where everything fell into place. (Though I would be willing to argue that there may actually be multiple times of acceptance in a person's life...)

Reba said:
A real Christian is a person who has made a once-in-a-lifetime decision to repent from his/her sins and personally accept the blood sacrifice of the crucified and risen Savior Jesus Christ as the one and only complete forgiveness of those sins forever. Nothing added (not family connection, not baptism, not ceremony, not church membership)--just the one-on-one permanent relationship between the person and Jesus that saves the person from hell, and begins a lifetime commitment of obedience to the Lord, and a deeper daily relationship thru Bible study, prayer, and surrender.

People are NOT real Christians just because their parents were Christian, or just because they are not Jews or Muslims or some other religion (it is not a process of elimination), or just because they were baptised or joined a church. Those are not the things that make a real Christian.

Unfortuneately, many people now don't know the real definition of Christian, and they just "guess" or assume that they are Christian, without knowing why.

If someone is a real Christian, he/she will gladly you tell you when and where he/she accepted Christ, and the circumstances. That is called a Christian's testimony. All real Christians have a testimony (story of their experience) that they are happy to share.

You are correct, just "head" knowledge about Jesus doesn't make one a Christian.
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Reba said:
A real Christian is a person who has made a once-in-a-lifetime decision to repent from his/her sins and personally accept the blood sacrifice of the crucified and risen Savior Jesus Christ as the one and only complete forgiveness of those sins forever. Nothing added (not family connection, not baptism, not ceremony, not church membership)--just the one-on-one permanent relationship between the person and Jesus that saves the person from hell, and begins a lifetime commitment of obedience to the Lord, and a deeper daily relationship thru Bible study, prayer, and surrender.

People are NOT real Christians just because their parents were Christian, or just because they are not Jews or Muslims or some other religion (it is not a process of elimination), or just because they were baptised or joined a church. Those are not the things that make a real Christian.

Unfortuneately, many people now don't know the real definition of Christian, and they just "guess" or assume that they are Christian, without knowing why.

If someone is a real Christian, he/she will gladly you tell you when and where he/she accepted Christ, and the circumstances. That is called a Christian's testimony. All real Christians have a testimony (story of their experience) that they are happy to share.

You are correct, just "head" knowledge about Jesus doesn't make one a Christian.
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:gpost: Both Reba and Rose Immortal
 
deafdyke said:
Cite? What population were these surveys done on? You don't really need to know all that much about Jesus in order to follow His Teachings.
Yes, many people just have a very basic education and are holy day (Christmas and Easter) church attendees, but there are people who know quite a bit. Even many scholars do not know all that much about Him!
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Already cited barna's website but here is an example:
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=7

Here's the one that I think illustrates the point: (quoted from link above)

"Three-quarters of Americans (75%) believe that the Bible teaches that God helps those who help themselves. (2000)"

That is by no means definitive, but shows how little knowledge most have.

Other survey results are here: http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topics
 
dkf747 said:
Your link says it is DISPUTED rather than FALSE.
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I said what I did before looking at the website. Thanks for pointing that out.

:)
 
mld4ds said:
1. Native Americans as the first people in North America are not Christians.

2. Founding Fathers had different briefs in any religion so they created their own freedom of religions rather than putting Lord in U.S. Constitution.

3. Pek1, welcome to the Nuclear/Technology ERA…
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1. Where did this come in from? :confused: No idea what this is concerning.

2. They had different "briefs"? :whistle: Gee, I hope so, but, if you were trying to state that they had different "beliefs" (BIG difference) ;) then you are correct.

3. And your point is?? :roll:
 
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