Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

loml said:
jillio - I have numerous discussion with you regarding CS. I am not going to engage in more with you.
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Your choice. I was giving you the opportunity to explain exactly how CS would provide benefit in language acquisition. But, if you can't support your position, so be it.
 
shel90 said:
early intervention as in babies? I dont know about u but I prefer just use ASL and spoken English and use CS for those who are language delayed in the educational setting to help them with reading/writing. That is what that teacher told me about how CS should be used.
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Exactly. Early intervention should be supporting language acquisition.
 
jillio said:
Agreed. But with CS, they are still not making up language delays. With ASL exposure, they are. Without remediation of the language delays reading comprehension will not be possible. A student has to understand concept, and also have internalized symbol to concept before reading comprehension is possible.
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Right...that is why the kids are using ASL for language development but the problem is that it takes them years and years to build a strong language foundation so what do we do with reading and writing in the meantime? I just hate to see 8 year olds coming to our school with a language level of a 2 year old and put off reading and writing for 3 or so years until they build a strong languge base. Ugh...I wish oral-only deaf ed was never implemented in the first place! It just fucks things up for many.
 
shel90 said:
early intervention as in babies? I dont know about u but I prefer just use ASL and spoken English and use CS for those who are language delayed in the educational setting to help them with reading/writing. That is what that teacher told me about how CS should be used.
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This makes sense to me. If cued speech is not a language then it should be used after ASL and English is learned? Do you agree, Loml?
 
shel90 said:
I agree but the problem with our school is that students are referred to our school with practically no language so maybe CS can be used with those students for access to reading and writing while they are developing language via ASL? If these kids were exposed to ASL from the get go, we wouldnt have this problem.
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shel90- What you say is true, but it is not the reality of a deaf child in a hearing family. CS is easy to learn and given incentive a family can be proficient in 6 months. To insist a family learn ASL at the time of diagnosis when an option like Cued Speech is available is simply unrealistic for most families. I can invision that if families were provided CS , the deaf child in result will be given the communication/inclusion in the language of their family via CS. The relationships with their deaf children may, or more likly will be quite different.
 
shel90 said:
Right...that is why the kids are using ASL for language development but the problem is that it takes them years and years to build a strong language foundation so what do we do with reading and writing in the meantime? I just hate to see 8 year olds coming to our school with a language level of a 2 year old and put off reading and writing for 3 or so years until they build a strong languge base. Ugh...I wish oral-only deaf ed was never implemented in the first place! It just fucks things up for many.
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I agree with you. Unfortunately, when language delays are present, then reading comprehension is also suffering from lags. When the language delays are corrected, the reading comprehension will follow. Like I've said before, CS will assist a child in speechreading the differnce between the words "beach" and "peach". but until they understand the conceptual difference between the two words, the difference between the two words will not have any sort of impact on them. I can hear the phonetic differences between two words spoken in Japanese, but since I have no knowledge of what either one of those words represent, the difference in the way they sound does not provide me with the information necessary to gain meaning from them. Same with a deaf child. Just knowing the phonetic difference does not provide them with conceptual information, and it is that conceptual information that is important in reading comprehension.
 
loml said:
shel90- What you say is true, but it is not the reality of a deaf child in a hearing family. CS is easy to learn and given incentive a family can be proficient in 6 months. To insist a family learn ASL at the time of diagnosis when an option like Cued Speech is available is simply unrealistic for most families. I can invision that if families were provided CS , the deaf child in result will be given the communication/inclusion in the language of their family via CS. The relationships with their deaf children may, or more likly will be quite different.
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If one begins learning ASL at the time of diagnosis, within 6 months the family can effectively communicate at the level required for communication with the child. Likewise, studies have indicated that even when parents are non-fluent, the deaf child's use will surpass the fluency of models, as the information necessary to intuit grammar, syntax, and structure of the language is readily available through the visual channels.

It would appear from this reasonsing, that CS simply provides another excuse not to learn ASL, and keep the home environment orally based.
 
jillio said:
Your choice. I was giving you the opportunity to explain exactly how CS would provide benefit in language acquisition. But, if you can't support your position, so be it.
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jillio - You can use the search option provided on Alldeaf, if you need to read it again.
 
loml said:
jillio - You can use the search option provided on Alldeaf, if you need to read it again.
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I don't need to read it again. I am well aware of your position. But perhaps others on this board, who do not have an understanding of what you are proposing, would like to read it.
 
Kaitin said:
This makes sense to me. If cued speech is not a language then it should be used after ASL and English is learned? Do you agree, Loml?
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No I do not agree Kaitin. Cued Speech is a system, that provides access to the phonemes of spoken language to learn English, French, Spanish, Dutch etc.
 
Phonemes and morphemes, in and of themselves, do not provide conceptual meaning. In order to be able to effectively use language, one must be able to gain conceptual knowledge from the symbol. Distinguishing the difference between phonemes is only useful if one has conceptual understanding of the exact combination of phonemes and morphemes as a symbol to which a particular meaning is attached.
 
shel90 said:
early intervention as in babies? I dont know about u but I prefer just use ASL and spoken English and use CS for those who are language delayed in the educational setting to help them with reading/writing. That is what that teacher told me about how CS should be used.
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shel90- Definately early intervention! Home is the richest enviorment for language. CS supports the family in using their native language, why should a deaf child be denied this?

I agree with the teacher at your school, CS can be used for children with language delays, for the aquisition of English etc. CS speech supports speech reading and can be used in the SLP enviroment. Why would you not choose this in your "box of tools"?
 
loml said:
shel90- Definately early intervention! Home is the richest enviorment for language. CS supports the family in using their native language, why should a deaf child be denied this?

I agree with the teacher at your school, CS can be used for children with language delays, for the aquisition of English etc. CS speech supports speech reading and can be used in the SLP enviroment. Why would you not choose this in your "box of tools"?
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SLP environment?

That teacher told me that many of the families that she has worked with at her old job werent consident in using CS with their children. They would end up just going back to using spoken language and leaving the child out so CS like ASL is not being used fully in many homes.
 
jillio said:
I agree with you. Unfortunately, when language delays are present, then reading comprehension is also suffering from lags. When the language delays are corrected, the reading comprehension will follow. Like I've said before, CS will assist a child in speechreading the differnce between the words "beach" and "peach". but until they understand the conceptual difference between the two words, the difference between the two words will not have any sort of impact on them. I can hear the phonetic differences between two words spoken in Japanese, but since I have no knowledge of what either one of those words represent, the difference in the way they sound does not provide me with the information necessary to gain meaning from them. Same with a deaf child. Just knowing the phonetic difference does not provide them with conceptual information, and it is that conceptual information that is important in reading comprehension.
Click to expand...

U just said what that teacher who supports CS said too! She practically said the same thing. That's why she feels it wont work for all students just a few.
 
shel90 said:
SLP environment?

That teacher told me that many of the families that she has worked with at her old job werent consident in using CS with their children. They would end up just going back to using spoken language and leaving the child out so CS like ASL is not being used fully in many homes.
Click to expand...

Exactly, shel. While CS can be a useful tool, it has very limited application when used for either communication or in remediating languge delays.
 
jillio said:
Today 09:41 PM Your choice. I was giving you the opportunity to explain exactly how CS would provide benefit in language acquisition. But, if you can't support your position, so be it.
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jillio said:
I don't need to read it again. I am well aware of your position. But perhaps others on this board, who do not have an understanding of what you are proposing, would like to read it.
Click to expand...

jillio - I am quite sure that people on this board are capable of searching, if they so choose.
 
loml said:
shel90- What you say is true, but it is not the reality of a deaf child in a hearing family. CS is easy to learn and given incentive a family can be proficient in 6 months. To insist a family learn ASL at the time of diagnosis when an option like Cued Speech is available is simply unrealistic for most families. I can invision that if families were provided CS , the deaf child in result will be given the communication/inclusion in the language of their family via CS. The relationships with their deaf children may, or more likly will be quite different.
Click to expand...

Loml - so no ASL and 100% English with CS? Or do you mean learn ASL after English?
 
shel90 said:
U just said what that teacher who supports CS said too! She practically said the same thing. That's why she feels it wont work for all students just a few.
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Probably those whose delays are not as severe?
 
jillio said:
Exactly, shel. While CS can be a useful tool, it has very limited application when used for either communication or in remediating languge delays.
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I will have to talk to that teacher again for more clarification..maybe tmw and ask her if she meant to use CS for those who are delayed in language or those who are proficient in language. She has had CS training and experienced using it at her old job. One aide who supports it grew up using it when learning reading and writing. I will have to ask her more about it too. She is fluent in ASL and has no oral skills whatsover.
 
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