Abortion argument leads to murder

[Maria]

Pro-abortion is the terminology used by the pro-life movement. You will need to take that issue up with them. Personally, I don't know anyone who is "pro-abortion." Everyone I know agrees that it is distasteful, but often the best option. That is a pro-choice stance. Claiming pro-life does not provide anyone with the right to determine another's medical decisions, nor to invade their right to privacy in a medical situation.
Perhaps you have missed the numerous times that this forum has been literally flooded with anti-abortion propoganda. Yes, everyone is well aware of the OP's opinion. No need to reiterate it again and again.

Not just pro-life, but pro-choice/abortion, too. Pro-choicers/abortionists have no rights to take pro-lifers' life away when the pro-lifers have their own rights to chose "life ".

 

[jillio]

Not just pro-life, but pro-choice/abortion, too. Pro-choicers/abortionists have no rights to take pro-lifers' life away when the pro-lifers have their own rights to chose "life ".

Pro-choicers are not removing the rights of anyone. If you don't believe in abortion, you are perfectly free to choose not to have one. No one argues with that.

 

[shel90]

Not just pro-life, but pro-choice/abortion, too. Pro-choicers/abortionists have no rights to take pro-lifers' life away when the pro-lifers have their own rights to chose "life ".

We aren't telling anyone what to do. Pro lifers tell people what to do by not allowing them to have a choice. Pro choicers don't meddle in other people's decisions. That's why we r all for choice.

 

[dreama]

Dreama used the headline that the original news story used. It was also included in the lead paragraph, and in the captions of pictures and videos that illustrated the story at the news website. So, Dreama was not misleading in using that as a thread topic.

It wasn't Dreama who originally deducted that the double killing resulted from an argument about abortion. It was the victims' neighbors and the investigating deputies.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Instead of debating the OP's motives or methods, why not focus on the story itself?

Yes that would be a good idea.

 

[dreama]

She wanted to keep the child so she would NOT better off with abortion. No matter how awful he is or if he would have kill her sooner or later or abuse their child. People need to deal with it if someone want to keep the child.

Well said.
She was very brave to defend her baby the way she did.

Like with most cases of domestic violence she would have done better to get the hell out as soon as possible.

I find it highly disturbing that anyone thinks it's a good thing for her to have caved in and murdered her baby. What a society we live in. (very sad).

 

[dreama]

I'm now feeling really depressed at how this thread has turned out. It seems people dont really care much about this woman or her baby. They only care about the man's right to push his girlfriend into bumping off the baby.

If you support abortion you are NOT pro choice. You are pro abortion. That's all since the baby and often many of the mothers didn't do it out of their own free will. They were pushed into it. What Kind of choice is that?
Besides You shouldn't be alowed to do things that are so fundimentally unethnical as murdering a pre born baby. That's what law inforcement should be about.

I think this woman was very brave to stand up to her bloke and not to cave into the pressure she must have been put under.

 

[Cheri]

I'm so ashamed to see how many people on this thread had not showed any sympathy for this woman who was 8 months pregnant that been shot and killed because she refuse an abortion. Where are your sympathies? instead this turned into another abortion debate. Unbelievable. *smh in disgusted*

 

[Jiro]

I'm now feeling really depressed at how this thread has turned out. It seems people dont really care much about this woman or her baby. They only care about the man's right to push his girlfriend into bumping off the baby.

If you support abortion you are NOT pro choice. You are pro abortion. That's all since the baby and often many of the mothers didn't do it out of their own free will. They were pushed into it. What Kind of choice is that?
Besides You shouldn't be alowed to do things that are so fundimentally unethnical as murdering a pre born baby. That's what law inforcement should be about.

I think this woman was very brave to stand up to her bloke and not to cave into the pressure she must have been put under.

I'm sorry but no. I don't think it's very brave to risk your life by standing up against a bloke who can kill you with ease. It's stupid to risk your life that way. It takes a great courage to REALLY admit what is going on and to take action against it - by reporting domestic violence to police and to leave him. Too many women blame it on themselves and they deny it so much that they think they ACTUALLY deserve beating.

 

[jillio]

I'm sorry but no. I don't think it's very brave to risk your life by standing up against a bloke who can kill you with ease. It's stupid to risk your life that way. It takes a great courage to REALLY admit what is going on and to take action against it - by reporting domestic violence to police and to leave him. Too many women blame it on themselves and they deny it so much that they think they ACTUALLY deserve beating.

It takes tremendous courage to remove yourself and your children from an abusive situation. Most times, women leave under the threat of "If you even try to leave me, I'll hunt you down and kill you and take your children." Often, knowing someone who has ended up dead as the result of domestic violence is the impetus that helps them dig deep inside and find that courage. That is why this story needs to be told. These women need to hear the ugly truth. Their very lives depend on it.

 

[Reba]

I'm sorry but no. I don't think it's very brave to risk your life by standing up against a bloke who can kill you with ease. It's stupid to risk your life that way. It takes a great courage to REALLY admit what is going on and to take action against it - by reporting domestic violence to police and to leave him. Too many women blame it on themselves and they deny it so much that they think they ACTUALLY deserve beating.

We don't know what prior actions the mom took. She may have tried reporting him or getting protection orders.

I need to re-read the original story but I believe the guy was not living with her at the time.

 

[Cowpuppy]

The story states that 'witnesses' reported they had been arguing the abortion thing. One can only assume it was the cause....sounds reasonable to me.
One can't assume that the man would eventually kill the woman. One could say they broke up even and never see each other again. etc. etc.....or loves the baby and changes.
And 'intention' means he planned it out ahead of time without the 'passion' of arguing. Perhaps he always carried agun and they happened to be arguing and....
Not siding with perp...justmakinga point...clarifications.
I don't see any reasons to argue this.....a sad thing all the way around.
Hate to add any hate to it.
Oh and once again.....at 8 months preggy I think it is too late to have abortion. So it was all over something that she couldn't do anyway. stupidity.

 

[Maria]

We aren't telling anyone what to do. Pro lifers tell people what to do by not allowing them to have a choice. Pro choicers don't meddle in other people's decisions. That's why we r all for choice.

Well, when I read the article about that guy who killed his pregnant wife who refused to give in what he wanted... he killed her. He killed pro-lifer. He tells her what to do and that doesn't make him a pro-choice. He's pro-abortion since he killed her and the baby. I don't think it is fair while he is still alive to make himself a pro-choice instead of pro-abortion.

 

[CJB]

I'm now feeling really depressed at how this thread has turned out. It seems people dont really care much about this woman or her baby. They only care about the man's right to push his girlfriend into bumping off the baby.

If you support abortion you are NOT pro choice. You are pro abortion. That's all since the baby and often many of the mothers didn't do it out of their own free will. They were pushed into it. What Kind of choice is that?
Besides You shouldn't be alowed to do things that are so fundimentally unethnical as murdering a pre born baby. That's what law inforcement should be about.

I think this woman was very brave to stand up to her bloke and not to cave into the pressure she must have been put under.

dreama, people pay attention to what the writer emphasized in the title and article. The journalist emphasized the abortion issue, so that's what people read. If she had included abortion as a detail but didn't frame this murder as an abortion issue, readers would have responded by focusing on the murder aspect rather than the abortion aspect.

I don't understand how you don't see the difference between supporting the choice vs. supporting abortion itself. No one wants to abort unless they absolutely have to. No one (save maybe some mental cases) aborts unless they are in dire circumstances. So I don't see how you can say people are pro-abortion. Pro-choicers are pro-choice because they recognize that some circumstances force people to take actions out of necessity. If you believe that there is absolutely no circumstance where a baby should be aborted, that's your belief. But I don't think it's fair to accuse other people of supporting abortion when what they're really supporting is the choice to abort when those dire circumstances arise.

 

[dreama]

dreama, people pay attention to what the writer emphasized in the title and article. The journalist emphasized the abortion issue, so that's what people read. If she had included abortion as a detail but didn't frame this murder as an abortion issue, readers would have responded by focusing on the murder aspect rather than the abortion aspect.

Abortion DID have something to do with this issue. That's what she was arueing about before she got killed.
She didn't want this abortion. He murdered her and he murdered the baby as well. It's rather a big aspect of this case to omit don't you think?

I don't understand how you don't see the difference between supporting the choice vs. supporting abortion itself.

I'm sorry but I don't see abortion as a choice, just as I don't see drunken driving, burgulary, murder of post born children, or cruelty to animals as choices either.

If it hurts none do as thou wilt,

but this does not apply to abortion because that hurts the baby and it often hurts the mother too.

 

[dreama]

Well, when I read the article about that guy who killed his pregnant wife who refused to give in what he wanted... he killed her. He killed pro-lifer. He tells her what to do and that doesn't make him a pro-choice. He's pro-abortion since he killed her and the baby. I don't think it is fair while he is still alive to make himself a pro-choice instead of pro-abortion.

Your right this guy definately wasn't supporting choice. Anti choice more likely and pro abortion too.

 

[CJB]

Abortion DID have something to do with this issue. That's what she was arueing about before she got killed.
She didn't want this abortion. He murdered her and he murdered the baby as well. It's rather a big aspect of this case to omit don't you think?



I'm sorry but I don't see abortion as a choice, just as I don't see drunken driving, burgulary, murder of post born children, or cruelty to animals as choices either.

If it hurts none do as thou wilt,

but this does not apply to abortion because that hurts the baby and it often hurts the mother too.

I never said the abortion issue should be omitted. I simply said it should have been framed as a murder issue with abortion included, rather than being framed as an abortion issue, with murder included, if the journalist wanted readers to focus on the murder and not the abortion aspect.

How is aborting vs. not aborting not a choice? Perhaps not in this specific case, but that's because of the abuse in this case. But most cases do have that element of choice, so being pro-choice is valid for most cases.

Abortion always hurts the mother and the baby. But sometimes the alternative hurts more.

 

[shel90]

Well, when I read the article about that guy who killed his pregnant wife who refused to give in what he wanted... he killed her. He killed pro-lifer. He tells her what to do and that doesn't make him a pro-choice. He's pro-abortion since he killed her and the baby. I don't think it is fair while he is still alive to make himself a pro-choice instead of pro-abortion.

Honestly, he probably would have killed her in the long run even if she had the abortion. Abusive men dont stop being abusive just because the women does what they want. They will find any reason to abuse the women and it just happened to be the issue of the pregnancy.

This whole thing is a tragedy no matter what the issue was.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

This is not an abortion issue. If abortions are illegal, then people would be forced to go into back alleys to do them, or worse yet-- do their own with coathangers in their own homes. So nothing would change if abortion is illegal or not. Even in places where abortions are frown upon or illegal, it's not really uncommon for guys to force a miscarriage by punching them. So how does the pro-life/pro-choice thing even apply to the case?

Plus, this is a double homicide. He killed a woman who had been carrying a baby for eight months. At that point, any moron can see that the woman can't get an abortion-- not legally anyway. It is really just a case of domestic abuse.

People will find reasons to abuse or kill other people, and will self-justify for their own selfish reasons. It happens everywhere, and the legality of the argument won't change that.

This is a person, who got herself into an abusive relationship, and suffered dearly for it-- and the law will prosecute him for the double-homicide.

 

[shel90]

This is not an abortion issue. If abortions are illegal, then people would be forced to go into back alleys to do them, or worse yet-- do their own with coathangers in their own homes. So nothing would change if abortion is illegal or not. Even in places where abortions are frown upon or illegal, it's not really uncommon for guys to force a miscarriage by punching them. So how does the pro-life/pro-choice thing even apply to the case?

Plus, this is a double homicide. He killed a woman who had been carrying a baby for eight months. At that point, any moron can see that the woman can't get an abortion-- not legally anyway. It is really just a case of domestic abuse.

People will find reasons to abuse or kill other people, and will self-justify for their own selfish reasons. It happens everywhere, and the legality of the argument won't change that.

This is a person, who got herself into an abusive relationship, and suffered dearly for it-- and the law will prosecute him for the double-homicide.

The concerns about back alley abortions if abortion should ever become illegal has been brought up constantly but I guess it falls on deaf ears (pardon the pun).

 

[Cowpuppy]

I think you guys are splitting hairs.
It is a murder and it involves an abortion argument. I think the readers can make the seperations. Why hide the abortion issue?
The homicides register easily.
spplitting hairson pro-abortion and pro-choice...sound the same to me.
Noones going to be saying everyone should always have abortions.