A note about bigotry

hootster said:
Yes, I know that he is entitled to his opinion. I have NO PROBLEM with that. I could care less if a person doesnt think that SEE is the best method to use. I could care less if a person uses ASL or SEE. Whatever works for them. However, I have a problem with how he presented his opinion. This is what he said-

"TRUE!!!! The value of TRUE ASL NEEDS to be promoted. S.E.E. is CRAP!!! It is not "sign language"."

Dont you think thats kinda insulting to people who sign SEE? He is basically saying that people who sign SEE are stupid tools who dont sign the "real" sign language aka ASL. I mean, come on, I sign SEE and I m doing fine, so therefore SEE is not "crap." If he presented his opinion in a better way instead of saying that SEE is "crap", I wouldnt have gotten all riled up.

When I told him to get a life, I meant for him to stop telling people that their way is wrong and allow them to decide whats best for themselves. There are no one uniform system that works with everyone.
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Well said! While I'm personally not a SEE-user, or even a big fan, I'd never fault someone for using that method. I have friends who sign SEE, ASL, PSE, whatever. LANGUAGE is the key, as is fluency. If you have that, it shouldn't matter what method you're using, as long as you're comfortable with it.
 
ayala920 said:
Well said! While I'm personally not a SEE-user, or even a big fan, I'd never fault someone for using that method. I have friends who sign SEE, ASL, PSE, whatever. LANGUAGE is the key, as is fluency. If you have that, it shouldn't matter what method you're using, as long as you're comfortable with it.
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Yeah, I agree. Why does it really matter what method a person uses as long as it works for them? Personally, I am not a big fan of ASL, but I dont go up to someone who signs ASL and tell them that their method sucks. I do understand that everyone is different and some methods work better than others for that person.
 
I've had some bad interpreters and on the other hand I've had some good ones too. I hate the fact that I have to ask for an interpreters for every meeting that involves with my children when the school is aware that I'm deaf, Why can't they automatically call to set up an interpreter to come instead of me reminding them every time?

Sometimes they don't even provide me an interpreter and when they don't I asked for another date to come back, and they get upset.
 
Etoile said:
I can't help but find attitudes like "TRUE!!!! The value of TRUE ASL NEEDS to be promoted. S.E.E. is CRAP!!! It is not "sign language"." strange coming from someone who dislikes gay people because they try to force their opinions/agenda on others.
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I don't mind gay people. In fact, I don't know any who do force their agenda on others (but I do know quite a few gay people). Those loudmouths you see/hear about are a very small part of the total gay population. I don't even care about people's sexual orientation.

However, I am :pissed: by your attitudes here.

For one thing, SEE isn't a true language. It doesn't have all the characteristics of a language; that's why it isn't a "sign language". It is an artificial "sign system", not a real language.

ASL, however, IS a true language with its own grammar. "The value of TRUE ASL NEEDS to be promoted" does NOT mean "force everybody to use ASL". It means that I believe people should understand that ASL is its own language with its own grammar and not a manual form of some other language. It is a beautifully expressive and dramatic language, which I think is part of its charm.

I want people to start reading my posts more carefully because I'm sick of you guys thinking I'm a hearing ASL nazi who's out to kill everyone who doesn't use ASL. And for the record, I'm not an interpreter eliminator either. I just want high-quality ones to be available for those who need them, and I haven't seen enough yet.
 
Cheri said:
I've had some bad interpreters and on the other hand I've had some good ones too. I hate the fact that I have to ask for an interpreters for every meeting that involves with my children when the school is aware that I'm deaf, Why can't they automatically call to set up an interpreter to come instead of me reminding them every time?

Sometimes they don't even provide me an interpreter and when they don't I asked for another date to come back, and they get upset.
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You have a right to interpreting services. Have you tried threatening with legal action? You can do that. In fact, it may be the only way to get what you need, sadly. Good luck!

--Dan
 
gnulinuxman said:
For one thing, SEE isn't a true language. It doesn't have all the characteristics of a language; that's why it isn't a "sign language". It is an artificial "sign system", not a real language.

ASL, however, IS a true language with its own grammar. "The value of TRUE ASL NEEDS to be promoted" does NOT mean "force everybody to use ASL". It means that I believe people should understand that ASL is its own language with its own grammar and not a manual form of some other language. It is a beautifully expressive and dramatic language, which I think is part of its charm.
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I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I believe that most people here realize that SEE is a "made-up" language, for lack of a better term, while ASL is not. That, however, does not change the fact that it is the preferred method of communication for some deaf people.

For the record, SEE 1 and SEE 2 were actually "invented" by deaf people (thank you, Endy, for being brilliant).
 
ayala920 said:
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I believe that most people here realize that SEE is a "made-up" language, for lack of a better term, while ASL is not. That, however, does not change the fact that it is the preferred method of communication for some deaf people.

For the record, SEE 1 and SEE 2 were actually "invented" by deaf people (thank you, Endy, for being brilliant).
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Like I said, I am not some hearing ASL nazi who forces everyone to use ASL.
 
true off the end is this

gnulinuxman said:
Like I said, I am not some hearing ASL nazi who forces everyone to use ASL.
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Hello!!!!!!!! He is not a Hearing ASL nazi (meaning he is not hilter or anything here) its time to give him a break at least :roll: :aw: please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Deaflinuxgeek
 
gnulinuxman said:
Like I said, I am not some hearing ASL nazi who forces everyone to use ASL.
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Point noted. I'd also like to invite you to note that I never said or implied you were. I was merely refuting your statement.
 
Can someone explain to me what See 1 and See 2 stands for? I'm not familiar with that phrase. ;)
 
Cheri said:
Can someone explain to me what See 1 and See 2 stands for? I'm not familiar with that phrase. ;)
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According to Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org):
Seeing Essential English (SEE1)

Developed in the US in 1966 by a deaf teacher named David Anthony, SEE1 was intended to teach proper grammatical construction by using gestures borrowed from ASL but not in a linguistically logical manner. In SEE1, all compound words are formed as separate signs - instead of using the ASL sign for butterfly, SEE1 places the signs for butter and fly in sequential order. SEE1 also uses the same sign for all homonyms - the same sign is used to sign blue and blew. Many gestures from ASL are initialized in SEE1 - the ASL sign for have is signed with the H handshape in SEE1. Grammatical markers also have signs of their own, including the -ing ending and articles such as the, which are not typically included in ASL. The verb "to be" is unique in SEE1 - is, am, and are are signed in the same way, again using initialization. SEE1 is occasionally referred to as Morphological Sign System (MSS), and it has also been adapted in Poland into Seeing Essential Polish.
[edit]

Signing Exact English (SEE2)

See main article: Signing Exact English

SEE2 was developed by Gerilee Gustason in the early 1970s. As an offshoot of SEE1, many features of SEE2 are identical to that code system. Initializations and grammatical markers are also used in SEE2, but compound words with an equivalent ASL sign are used as the ASL sign, as with butterfly. SEE2 is also used in Singapore. About 75% to 80% of SEE2 signs are either borrowed from ASL or are modified ASL signs.
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The article can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manually_Coded_English
 
Ahh Now I see the differences. SEE 2 stands for Signing Exact English, and SEE 1 stands for Seeing Essential English. Thank you so much for clearing this confusing up for me. This is something new I just learned tonight. ;)
 
gnulinuxman said:
I don't mind gay people. In fact, I don't know any who do force their agenda on others (but I do know quite a few gay people). Those loudmouths you see/hear about are a very small part of the total gay population. I don't even care about people's sexual orientation.

However, I am :pissed: by your attitudes here.
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I haven't said a thing about SEE, dear. I think you must have meant the "general" you, am I right? As for your attitudes toward gay people, I'm going to drop that subject. Anyway, the irony of the statement seems to be lost on you. :roll:

I want people to start reading my posts more carefully because I'm sick of you guys thinking I'm a hearing ASL nazi who's out to kill everyone who doesn't use ASL. And for the record, I'm not an interpreter eliminator either. I just want high-quality ones to be available for those who need them, and I haven't seen enough yet.
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You should travel more. And as for us reading your posts more carefully...maybe you should make clearer statements, dear.
 
gnulinuxman said:
ASL, however, IS a true language with its own grammar. "The value of TRUE ASL NEEDS to be promoted" does NOT mean "force everybody to use ASL". It means that I believe people should understand that ASL is its own language with its own grammar and not a manual form of some other language. It is a beautifully expressive and dramatic language, which I think is part of its charm.
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LOL, Ok, how was I supposed to come up with that conclusion going by what you said? Saying that ASL should be promoted and that SEE is "crap" makes it easy for one to take it that you think that everyone should sign ASL.

But yeah, you need to type your opinions out in a better way if you dont want this kind of backlash at you. Be more clear.
 
Endymion said:
You wrote that? Nice!
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Yep, that was me! Of course it's Wikipedia, so it has been edited since I originally wrote it, but I created it and it's still mostly mine.
 
Technically, SEE isn't an "artificial language; it is merely a TOOL whose ultimate goal is proper English grammar, nothing much more or less.
 
People need to realize that SEE and PSE is not language just a communication mode. ASL is a true language. Sorry Thats the answer here! :ty:
 
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