6 years old German boy died during school swimming lesson

Liebling:-)))

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6 years old German boy had an accident with the school swimming lesson, is dead.


A six-year first grader, who had an accident with the school schwimming lesson in the Dinkelsbühler indoor swimming pool, is dead last Monday. He died in Nürnberger hospital on next day (Tuesday night, says the police.

Nobody knows why the boy is not survive at the swimming hour with 47 children since he was cared for by 2 instructors. An unknown time under water, is still unclear.

Clarity to an expiration of investigation is attained, so police speaker Stefan Schuster says. The public prosecutor's office in Ansbach take this case over.

At the moment this is not unclear to the questioning of a 28 years old teacher of 2nd grade class in the schwimming lesson as 44 years old teacher of 1st grade class who take the part of responsible as well.

According to a first autopsy result came by oxygen deficiency to the damages, which led in the long run to death, so the police says. It does not give medical signs for another cause of death.

It is examined whether the facts of the negligent could be present. The teacher was responsible formally for the supervision over the children of the first class.

Their colleague is considered as a witness. It´s also possibly that children are heard, is unclear. The public prosector of Ansbach decide whether who is the responsible......

Meanwhile at the small primary school with four classes and 94 pupils in the Hesselbergraum, where the boy visited, take the message of boy´s death take so bad. It affects them very strongly, says Principal Armin Kitysteiner.

Psychologist in school

A Psychologin of the team (Bavarian school) take care of boy´s parents, so the district government, too. All of education offices were informed about accident in swimming hours. Hans Seitz of the Ansbacher education office referred to the fact that often parents help with the supervision of pupils in the schwimming lesson. They want limit the pupils during swimming hour with up to 32 pupils an instructor.

Liebling:
Dinkelsbühler is around 40 minutes away drive from Ansbach where I live. Dinkelsbühler is belong part of Ansbach.
I can´t beleive when I read the newspaper today. I searched for English link but I can´t find so I translate from the newspaper into English to add here. (not translate all but some of important to add here).
I feel hurt for boy´s parents. He goes his first school last September 2005. :(

My hubby & I discussed about this today. We beleive that it´s swimming instructor´s responsible to neglect her supersivion, not first class teacher. I beleive that the situation affects instructor & teacher very badly. I can image how they feel when I´m in their shoes. I know it´s happened to them for a first time. I really don´t know what I should say... It´s scary... As what we know is: We signed to agree to let our children to go school swimming lesson during their first grade school... I can image it must be fear for the parents to let their children to have swimming lesson with instructor.

Tell me what do you think of this condition? :(

Let us pray for the parents of boy...

 
Wow! I don't know what to say, This is shocking news. Isn't parents suppose to be going swimming lesson with their own child? That's what my sister does. :dunno:
 
I agree Liebling that the swimming teacher should be charge of neglect a six years old boy during swimming lesson....He is responsible to keep an eye on these children while they're in the pool....Of course accidents do happen but it was under his care and he should be charge of the little boy's death....

It's sad that it happen to this little one, I know a few cases that happened here in Ohio at the YMCA, and it's such a shame that nothing was being done but to rule it out as an accident....Why do parents always seem to get arrest for child neglect if they leave their children unattend and something happened to the child, then they get arrest for it, this should go both ways, if a teacher or babysitter neglect a child in their care and it result a death of a child, then they should be charge for neglecting them....
 
Cheri said:
Wow! I don't know what to say, This is shocking news. Isn't parents suppose to be going swimming lesson with their own child? That's what my sister does. :dunno:

Do you mean that all of parents must be there to watch their children during school swimming lesson?

No, we (parents) don´t have to because it´s teacher´s responsible to supersivison her/his pupils during school lesson time. All what they need parent´s approval thru signature.

Yes, it´s parent´s responsible to watch their children during outside of school lesson time. During school lesson is teacher´s responsible.
 
Cheri said:
Wow! I don't know what to say, This is shocking news. Isn't parents suppose to be going swimming lesson with their own child? That's what my sister does. :dunno:

I don't believe all the swimming programs are like that having parents attend with their child to swimming lesson....

I know I do, and I make sure my boys are fine when they're in the pool I noticed some students not really paying any attention to all of the children in each groups, but so far no one has drowned...

Actually Liebling, there are some swimming lesson that provide parent to attend to watch their children learn how to swim, YMCA is a must for parents to attend to swim with their child in the pool, so every swimming programs are different and it's depending where you go or sign up for.... ;)
 
^Angel^ said:
I agree Liebling that the swimming teacher should be charge of neglect a six years old boy during swimming lesson....He is responsible to keep an eye on these children while they're in the pool....Of course accidents do happen but it was under his care and he should be charge of the little boy's death....

It's sad that it happen to this little one, I know a few cases that happened here in Ohio at the YMCA, and it's such a shame that nothing was being done but to rule it out as an accident....Why do parents always seem to get arrest for child neglect if they leave their children unattend and something happened to the child, then they get arrest for it, this should go both ways, if a teacher or babysitter neglect a child in their care and it result a death of a child, then they should be charge for neglecting them....

Very good point. That´s an exactly what my hubby & I talked about this. We are thrilling to see what the public prosector says. I will update my post here as soon as I get the news... What the court says... ??? what the lawyer says ??? ...........................................
 
thats awful sad.. they should have some aide or give 2 kids at a time in pool, it isn't safety.
 
I agree with Cheri and Angel that either the parents should be present, or there should be more adult assistants present for such a large group of 6-year-olds. If I read the article correctly, there were only two adults for 47 children?! How on earth could only two adults watch that many small children? When the Family Y/YMCA gives swim classes here, the parents are present. Also, there are two instructors for 6 - 8 kids only, and also a lifeguard present.
 
Reba said:
I agree with Cheri and Angel that either the parents should be present, or there should be more adult assistants present for such a large group of 6-year-olds. If I read the article correctly, there were only two adults for 47 children?! How on earth could only two adults watch that many small children? When the Family Y/YMCA gives swim classes here, the parents are present. Also, there are two instructors for 6 - 8 kids only, and also a lifeguard present.


Like what I say in my last post that they want to limit the pupils during swimming hour with up to 32 pupils an instructor instead of 47 children. My children goes their first swimming lesson with first grade teacher, an instructor & his assistants during their first grade.

Germany is different as America.

It´s teacher/instructor responsible to watch and educate the pupils during swimming lesson hour, outing trips, accident at school playground etc. with parental´s approval. The teacher takes their responsible for neglect their supersivon to swmming lesson, outing trips, etc. etc. during lesson when it´s happened to the children.

It´s parents´s responsible to take care of their children outside of school lesson.

It´s very first time to see like this... Nobody knows how/why he died... public prosector take the case over and working on it... See what happened.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Like what I say in my last post that they want to limit the pupils during swimming hour with up to 32 pupils an instructor instead of 47 children. My children goes their first swimming lesson with first grade teacher, an instructor & his assistants during their first grade.
A ratio of 32 students to one instructor is still not safe. How can one adult take care of or watch that many children? There should be at least four adults in that size group.

It´s teacher/instructor responsible to watch and educate the pupils during swimming lesson hour, outing trips, accident at school playground etc. with parental´s approval. The teacher takes their responsible for neglect their supersivon to swmming lesson, outing trips, etc. etc. during lesson when it´s happened to the children.
Then it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure there are enough adult assistants/volunteers available. It is physically impossible for one adult to take care of that many children at a pool, outdoors, on a trip, etc. If the teacher is at one end of the pool helping a student, and another child falls in the water at the other end of the pool, how can the teacher save the child? It is impossible.

It´s parents´s responsible to take care of their children outside of school lesson.
Parents are responsible for their children 24/7 for 18 years. They can delegate some tasks and responsibility for specific times and events but the parent has the ultimate responsibility. Also, most parents don't have 32-42 kids to watch at one time in a dangerous area. Yes, a pool is a dangerous area.
 
Reba said:
A ratio of 32 students to one instructor is still not safe. How can one adult take care of or watch that many children? There should be at least four adults in that size group.

I think I already said that there´re few adults around to educate the children during swimming lesson, outing trips, etc. I already said that there´re teacher, an instructor & assistants. It´s impossible for only one adult with many children... There´re alway have 3 or 4 adults around. (teacher, intructor & assistants) The newspaper already mentioned that 42 pupils have 1 instructor & their assistants & 2 teachers - Nobody have idea why he died when they have adults around..., that´s why public prosector going to find out. I´m agree that 42 pupils is rather too much. My children and pupils up to 20 children have swimming lesson.

Then it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure there are enough adult assistants/volunteers available. It is physically impossible for one adult to take care of that many children at a pool, outdoors, on a trip, etc. If the teacher is at one end of the pool helping a student, and another child falls in the water at the other end of the pool, how can the teacher save the child? It is impossible.

I think I already mentioned that there´re few adults around. Yes, it´s an exactly that it´s teacher´s responsible to make sure that there´re more adults around. It´s unclear why a boy died.

Parents are responsible for their children 24/7 for 18 years. They can delegate some tasks and responsibility for specific times and events but the parent has the ultimate responsibility. Also, most parents don't have 32-42 kids to watch at one time in a dangerous area. Yes, a pool is a dangerous area.

I think you dont understand what I am trying explain.

Yes, the parents have the responsible for their children up to 18 years old. It´s teachers´s responsible to take care of their pupils during SCHOOL LESSON. They will be in trouble to neglect their supersivion if any happen to children.
 
In my hometown YWCA/YMCA has swimming pool... Always requires 5 lifeguards at the pool... If too many childrens.. will add extra 1 more lifeguards.... total 6 lifeguards..

I feel break heart goes out for their family who lost their son and got 1st school year..

My strongly point of view.... Lifeguard is part of responbile being boy's death due lack of supervision and also why not bring more lifeguards at the pool as well ?

"Neglect" quite strong words... Can be lead the press charge depend what kind the condtion critial issues.
 
Liebling:-))) said:

I think I already said that there´re few adults around to educate the children during swimming lesson, outing trips, etc. I already said that there´re teacher, an instructor & assistants. It´s impossible for only one adult with many children... There´re alway have 3 or 4 adults around. (teacher, intructor & assistants) The newspaper already mentioned that 42 pupils have 1 instructor & their assistants & 2 teachers -
But your story didn't say that. It said:
"Nobody knows why the boy is not survive at the swimming hour with 47 children since he was cared for by 2 instructors."
That is two adults for 47 6-year-olds, right?
Maybe something was lost in the translation. :dunno:

For that many children at a pool there should have been at least 8 adults present.
 
Reba said:
But your story didn't say that. It said:
"Nobody knows why the boy is not survive at the swimming hour with 47 children since he was cared for by 2 instructors."
That is two adults for 47 6-year-olds, right?
Maybe something was lost in the translation. :dunno:

For that many children at a pool there should have been at least 8 adults present.


I already mentioned 2 intructors and 2 teachers in my first post.

Nobody knows why the boy is not survive at the swimming hour with 47 children since he was cared for by 2 instructors. An unknown time under water, is still unclear.

and

At the moment this is not unclear to the questioning of a 28 years old teacher of 2nd grade class in the schwimming lesson as 44 years old teacher of 1st grade class who take the part of responsible as well.


It means that there´re 4 adults together for 47 children but assistants are not mentioned in the newspaper which it´s normal that instructor´s assistants must have there... :dunno:

There´re still unclear why a boy is not survive during swimming hour with 4 adults around.

2 Instructors take care of pupil is show them how to swim... teachers watch them.... How he died? still unclear. (I know what I´m saying because my children with 20 pupil goes swimming lesson - with an intructor & his 2 assistants and one teacher).

and

I already said in my first post:

We beleive that it´s swimming instructor´s responsible to neglect her supersivion, not first class teacher.

I will update my post here when I get the news about them...



For that many children at a pool there should have been at least 8 adults present.
[/QUOTE]

I don´t understand why there´re too many children who have 4 adults which it´s not right. It suppose be more than just 4 adults. Wait and see what the court says.


The word of Bullym0m´s post hit me hard "Lifeguard". I should type "Lifeguard" instead of intructor...
 
Bullym0m said:
In my hometown YWCA/YMCA has swimming pool... Always requires 5 lifeguards at the pool... If too many childrens.. will add extra 1 more lifeguards.... total 6 lifeguards..

I feel break heart goes out for their family who lost their son and got 1st school year..

My strongly point of view.... Lifeguard is part of responbile being boy's death due lack of supervision and also why not bring more lifeguards at the pool as well ?

"Neglect" quite strong words... Can be lead the press charge depend what kind the condtion critial issues.

Yeah that´s what my hubby & I think it´s swimming intructor (Lifeguard)´s responsible, not teachers. Wait & See...
 
Liebling:-))) said:

I already mentioned 2 intructors and 2 teachers in my first post.

At the moment this is not unclear to the questioning of a 28 years old teacher of 2nd grade class in the schwimming lesson as 44 years old teacher of 1st grade class who take the part of responsible as well.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the two instructors and the two teachers were the same people. Maybe it was clearer in the original German.


...but assistants are not mentioned in the newspaper which it´s normal that instructor´s assistants must have there...
Well, if it didn't say so in the story, we can't just assume that.


I don´t understand why there´re too many children who have 4 adults which it´s not right. It suppose be more than just 4 adults. Wait and see what the court says.
Yes, we will have to wait for the next story to have more details. This just happened yesterday, right? Maybe there will be more information tomorrow.
 
I was curious about YMCA standards, so I looked it up:

Swimming lessons:

Progressive Lessons for Ages 6 and up

Children start as a polliwog (beginner) and progress through the program to the Shark level (the highest rating).
Instructor to child ratio 1:5

So for a class of 45 kids, the YMCA would have 9 instructors. (Of course, Y classes are not usually that large; that is too many kids for one class.)

They also have at least two lifeguards on duty.
 
As for those of you who have posted in this thread-- :thumb:...first off, it's always sad to see and learn of a very young child's death, (my thoughts and prayers for the family and all involved directly) and whether or not 'neglect' is the issue here, I believe it's not just however many instructors and lifeguard being present, the liability and respondsibility will rest with the school itself, as it was pointed out that this was a school swimming function...as most of you already have pointed out that the 'ratio' of lifeguards and teachers presented per group was obviously not enough....Therefore, it's more of the school not providing a safe environment and having a reasonable amount of lifeguards provided...then again, this event may have been a school-sponsored event and held at another location where the pool is...if so, then perhaps some of the fault ought to be pointed at the school but not entirely....This much of the information provided here in this thread can allow for us to make premature conclusions when all the facts aren't presented....although, we all can agree that if there was indeed a short number of teachers and lifeguards presented and obviously calls for a much larger availability of lifeguards provided to meet the needs for the security of safety and assurance during any swimming event....
 
That's sad. :( I'm sorry to hear he's gone. May his little soul rest in peace and go on the safe journey to heaven. :(
 
Reba said:
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the two instructors and the two teachers were the same people. Maybe it was clearer in the original German.

Do you really think there're no lifeguards around swimming lesson? Of course there're alway have lifeguards around to take the responsible, not teachers... It's teachers's responsible to watch the children during swimming lesson where intructors (lifeguard) teach.

I am trying to search English link... nope. I asked my co-worker for the support but she told me that websites are for the world. The school swimming scandal is from local newspaper (Ansbach newspaper) - not for around Germany. It would go to website automaic if there're newspaper for around Germany to world.

Yes, we will have to wait for the next story to have more details. This just happened yesterday, right? Maybe there will be more information tomorrow.


Yes, we have to wait for next story.

It was happened at one week ago (Monday). They made the local newspaper to inform us about boy's swimming accident & plan about children limit for swimming lesson without name him at 2 days ago. I would find easily if they name a boy but they didn't. I asked my co-worker either she heard any news about boy thru radio or what? She explained that the "gossip" around the local suspect that the 2 teachers chatted each other without pay their attention to watch children. She also said that it's not normal to have 2 teachers for first & second grade children together because it's begin for first grade children to learn how to swim with armband & becken. They are supposing to make an appointment in different date for different grades children.

Nobody understand why/how he died because he WEAR armband and becken, also no deep water... which it's safety for first grade children... for years and years with no problem until happened last Monday...

It's normal to have only one teacher with assistant & one intructor (lifeguard) with 2 or 3 assistants. Depend on how many children intructor educate but it should not over 30 children.

My co-worker said that she beleive it'll be next newpaper where the date of courts come. The newspaper reporters respect the parents of boy's wish to not name them in the newspaper or anything until...............


 
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