5-Year-Old Wants Cochlear Implant for Christmas

[jillio]

I think it's comical the way the hearing parents on this board are jumping on those who say they know 35 or fewer CI users. Personally I do not know more than 35. I mean KNOW, as in being acquainted with them, their names, personalities, etc. Seems like the hearing people know more than we deaf do.

"How many people do you know?"
"Oh, millions."

FYI, by that standard, we each know thousands and thousands of CI users.

No doubt. And I am one who has daily contact with CI users, not to mention bi-weekly contact in a group setting. And that holds consistent over a period of years. And I can't claim to know thousands.

 

[jillio]

That wasn't the point. Theres a line between being proper and a dick. However with you, the line is way over to the shallow left.

There is a reason you're all bothered and continue posting/defending with that method in here - even after your little one is all grown up.. I wonder what that is.

 

[jillio]

Beowulf, the difference is that you don't insist that hearing parents here only know their own child's experience and that you know better because of your exp. with many, many CI children. That's what Jillio has done, and why many of us who know hundreds, maybe thousands of CI children are astounded to find that pool of knowledge she claims is so limited and non-representative (our children are in school and programs with others with CIs, attend the same conferences and camps, we have often interviewed many of them prior to getting CIs, we then keep in touch, we meet new kids with CIs at conventions and events, at mappings, and build those relationships online and off -- community is important). It is only because she has claimed greater knowledge based on experience with CI kids that we are surprised to find that she has so little compared even with us, as individuals.

Uh, wrong. My knowledge is extensive. However, my knowledge and the number of people I can claim to know personally are two very different things. The people I can claim to know personally, and the people I have had supeficial contact with is different from the above. As usual, you are over-generalizing your experience. You see a kid once, and their parent tells you this or that, and you equate that to "knowing" that child, and you equate biased parent observation to be equal to professional evaluation. I don't they are separate, and I keep them separate.

You seem to have a great deal of jealousy going on for the fact that what I state is supported by the deaf who live with deafness on a daily basis. Perhaps if you took the time to listen to what they are saying, and validate it, you would have them supporting your posts in that way, as well. However, when I was just a few years into learning about deaf culture, I was still learning from them. When I was corrected on my viewpoint, I used that opportunity to adjust my own ideas and use it as a learning situation. You can't get where I am overnight. That appears to be an issue with you.

 

[jillio]

Showcased CI kids. Do you believe everything they say? I personally know of a few CI users who admit that they lie to keep up the front. It is weird, but they do. It sounds like the CI kids are paraded in front of audiences and are afraid to tell the truth. Take them aside and TALK WITH THEM! :roll:

Exactly. The kids I work with know they can be totally honest with me. They know that they can't be totally honest with their parents because they are afraid of hurting their parents feelings or letting down their parents' expectations. In sessions with me, or in a group with other adolescents, you would be surprised at what they say. I have a 17 year old that just last week admitted in group that he never wanted a CI but got one anyway to make it easier for his mother to communicate with him. He was a fluent signer prior (and still uses it extensively). He also had oral skills prior. But his mom did not make accommdations in his home life, nor did his sibs. He consented to the CI in a desperate attempt to conform to the hearing environment he had to live in. I find that horribly sad.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, because that is the same....."diarrhea of the mouth" is a phrase, people say it when someone just talks without thinking about what they are saying before they say it. And people call other who have outdated or old ideas "dinosaurs" as well. Both of those are common phrases that people use.

How is that possibly the same as saying that you personally are part of a group responsible for the systematic MURDER of 6 million people......

You really think that is equal?

I got another phrase for you. **One hand paralllel to forhead, moving forward in a circling motion. Followed with a five hand horzontal to the mouth moving repetitively back and forth with an eye roll.**

 

[jillio]

! Mentioning the pros always prompts furious debate from people who are not familiar with CIs, and so may be more visible, but cons they are discussed pretty frequently:

1. Surgery
2. Equipment issues (breaking, adjusting, settings, batteries)
3. Accommodation issues (FM systems, accessories for other technology), where they can/can't be used, some people have trouble keeping them on in rough and tumble physical sports, some infants don't like things on their heads, some people get irritation at the magnet contact point if they set their magnet too strong, teachers don't know what they are, strangers think they are bluetooths, etc.

I've seen CI users discuss their experiences, the apprehensions, the scary surgery, the discomfort after, the activation and excitement/ disappointment of first sounds, getting to know the equipment, managing the equipment. I've seen parents attempt to discuss issues with the educational experiences and the learning environment, but 1. those threads always get derailed into debates about whether or not to get a CI, so you never get a full discussion about the issue that was brought up and 2. there's just a handful on this forum with experience with or as a child who grew up with a CI in a particular learning environment.

Ahh...so deaf people and professionals who choose to address issues regarding deafness from a cultural, holistic viewpoint know very little about CIs? Wow, I have wasted years of experience and education. :roll:

 

[jillio]

I never said 'at the same time'...

If we want to go that route, the entire time my son was in school for the deaf, I took a student home on weekends and holidays that would have otherwise had to stay in the dorm. We add all those differents students up, and I could come up with hundreds.

 

[jillio]

Of course we talk to the kids! I have never seen kids "paraded in front of audiences" (Well, I suppose that I have been to panel presentations where they have teens and adults talk about their experiences and answer questions, is that what you mean?)

I would say that I personally know well, see very regularly about 50 CI users. I have had the opportunity to spend significant time with (weeks at various programs) another 60. And I have met, and spoken with, at least 150 more.

As Grendel said, our shock was at the fact that the person who continuously tell us that she sees the "damage" that CIs do everyday, and that claims that WE do not have enough time and experience to know the truth, turns out to have a miniscule of personal exposure to CIs and those who use them.

Talking TO the kids is the problem. Stop talking and start listening. And give them the safety and freedom to be completely honest with you.

 

[jillio]

Honey, you have been the judge, jury and executioner of many parents here who chose NOT to implant their children. Just because you KNOW the DoDA couple doesn't mean you know the whole Deaf community. Get real, FJ. You need to immerse yourself in the Deaf Community and that doesn't mean AllDeaf. AllDeaf is just a mere fraction of the universal Deaf Community.



Faire_Jour just happens to stand out the most from the hearing community and you're correct, I stand corrected it is not the majority of the hearing community. It is the minority which unfortunately has FJ's audistic attitude about Deaf children being raised without CIs. She even posted about their "future" being dim and limited because of parental decisions of not using the CI.


Social miscasts amongst other words was what she chose to use for those not implanted with the CI. It's sad how she can undermine those Deaf children using ASL yet gloat about those implanted children that do not use ASL.

One cannot have one without another. The moral seesaw is not balanced here thus you have discord in this board.

Very well said, Mrs. B.

 

[faire_jour]

Very well said, Mrs. B.

Except that I never said any of those things.

 

[jillio]

I don't know who said it, I won't excuse my blindness for this one.

I know someone on this forum stated those and I personally felt it was wrong.

I apologise for this gross error on my part.

I am glad you are socialising with the Deaf Community, now if you can understand our feelings when you are too "critical" of our cultural values/norms.

For example, the CI benefits some people however I wouldn't go running for it myself. It's because I grew up in the Deaf Community and I'm very quick to defend my culture/community. It's very hard to explain but it's already stirring up emotions that so many people can understand.

I hope you will understand as one day Miss Kat will go through this herself. (Hopefully..)

Exactly Mrs. B. All any of us are asking is a bit of empathy and understanding of the cultural perspective instead of the constant corrections of the deaf perspective.

 

[jillio]

I would think that someone active in the deaf community, counseling they deaf and their families and mentoring the the deaf would know alot more than a person who is LD and has attended 5-6 deaf events.

Evidently, your definition of "know" is much more superficial than mine. I separate "know" from "have had contact with".:roll:

 

[jillio]

Except that I never said any of those things.

I wasn't commenting on what you said. I was commenting on what Mrs. B said contextually. That is why I quoted her and used her name in my post.

You are demonstrating overly defensive reactions again.

 

[GrendelQ]

You seem to have a great deal of jealousy going on for the fact that what I state is supported by the deaf who live with deafness on a daily basis. Perhaps if you took the time to listen to what they are saying, and validate it, you would have them supporting your posts in that way, as well. However, when I was just a few years into learning about deaf culture, I was still learning from them. When I was corrected on my viewpoint, I used that opportunity to adjust my own ideas and use it as a learning situation. You can't get where I am overnight. That appears to be an issue with you.

Jillio, I know you spend a great deal of time doing good things with teenagers, which I admire, but it may be coloring your perceptions of what drives people. I'm not jealous of you for ... whatever it is you think I might be jealous of (I don't know you or all the wonderful things that make up your life and I'm pretty happy with what I've got going on).

But more important, what may be causing the continued tension between us is your bolded quote. I'm not trying to get where you are. I'm not you. My circumstances are different. Not better nor worse, but I'm on a different path at a different time, and my daughter's journey to thrive, learn, discover will be different from your son's. It's apparent that it angers you when others deviate from the path you've chosen. But Jillio, other choices do not not challenge your decisions, or denigrate them -- I may have taken a different path from you, from FJ, PFH, Rick, Wee Beastie, and the other parents of deaf on this board, but I have respect for all of these approaches, and confidence that every one of these parents is doing -- or did -- the absolute best for their children. I learn from all of the people on this forum when they share, not just the select few that you approve of.

 

[jillio]

Jillio, I know you spend a great deal of time doing good things with teenagers, which I admire, but it may be coloring your perceptions of what drives people. I'm not jealous of you for ... whatever it is you think I might be jealous of (I don't know you or all the wonderful things that make up your life and I'm pretty happy with what I've got going on).

But more important, what may be causing the continued tension between us is your bolded quote. I'm not trying to get where you are. I'm not you. My circumstances are different. Not better nor worse, but I'm on a different path at a different time, and my daughter's journey to thrive, learn, discover will be different from your son's. It's apparent that it angers you when others deviate from the path you've chosen. But Jillio, other choices do not not challenge your decisions, or denigrate them -- I may have taken a different path from you, from FJ, PFH, Rick, Wee Beastie, and the other parents of deaf on this board, but I have respect for all of these approaches, and confidence that every one of these parents is doing -- or did -- the absolute best for their children. I learn from all of the people on this forum when they share, not just the select few that you approve of.

How exactly are your circumstances different? And how is it that you think your daughter's path will be so different from my son, or the many deaf adults that have gone before her? We have people separated by the generations here on this forum, and they all tell of the same experiences. The only ones that insist that deaf children are different today are hearing parents who believe that technology will change that which is unaffected by technology.

I have never questioned whether any parent, irregardless of their decision, is making that decision based on what they believed was in their child's best interest. In fact, I have, on numerous occasions stated that parents are all doing what they believe to be in their child's best interest.

There are not a select few that I approve of. I approve of the millions of experiences the deaf have had throughout their lives that are shared on this forum. Every single experience, and the generosity of every single deaf person that revisits and relates what are often painful experiences for no other reason than to attempt to benefit today's deaf children.

And it is a fact that you cannot get where I am overnight. Not just you, but anyone. I have spent literally years developing friendships with deaf individuals and revising my hearing perspective into a deaf one. I learned to relate to deaf people from where they were, not from where I am. And that cannot be done in a short amount of time. I doubt seriously that I will ever be done learning from the deaf that so readily and trustingly share with me. That trust was hard won. And I am extremely proud of the trust and the faith that the deaf now place on me. I worked hard to earn it, and they worked hard to teach me.

 

[GrendelQ]

We have people separated by the generations here on this forum, and they all tell of the same experiences.

Maybe you are only listening to some, because I read many, many different experiences on this forum, with some shared elements, some in conflict, but no two alike.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Talking TO the kids is the problem. Stop talking and start listening. And give them the safety and freedom to be completely honest with you.

You also don't need to talk to 50K deaf children/teens to get that damage has been done. All it takes is ONE deaf adult/child/teen to say that they had a rough upbringing as a result of audism. It also takes ONE hearing person to listen to them and want to change your perspective FOR that person. I just don't understand why its so HARD for people to understand this.

It's called empathy.

 

[shel90]

Maybe you are only listening to some, because I read many, many different experiences on this forum, with some shared elements, some in conflict, but no two alike.

Nope, no two are exactly alike but there is a continuing pattern of new members who are deaf or hoh who have made introductary threads talking how they feel left out or isolated among hearing people and how they hope to connect or make friends with others like them.

Why accept this gap between deaf people? Exposing all deaf children to ASL and the Deaf community would definitely make that gap much much smaller. Who makes the decision on whether they can interact with Deaf signers or not...the parents.

And I don't have to mention the issues of all the risks for language delays or deficits which is another problematic issue.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Except that I never said any of those things.

If you'll look at post 190, I apologised for this.

I'll apologise again, I'm very sorry for this gross mistake.

I am not embarrassed to admit I made a mistake and will always own up to my errors by apologising.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

You also don't need to talk to 50K deaf children/teens to get that damage has been done. All it takes is ONE deaf adult/child/teen to say that they had a rough upbringing as a result of audism. It also takes ONE hearing person to listen to them and want to change your perspective FOR that person. I just don't understand why its so HARD for people to understand this.

It's called empathy.

Thank you so much.

May I quote you on this for my signature?