NRA offensive exposes deep U.S. divisions on guns

Score one for the good guys.....

Melinda Herman, Mom Who Shot Intruder, Inspires Gun Control Foes

By KATE BRUMBACK 01/09/13 07:47 PM ET EST




LOGANVILLE, Ga. -- A Georgia mother who shot an intruder at her home has become a small part of the roaring gun control debate, with some firearms enthusiasts touting her as a textbook example of responsible gun ownership.
Melinda Herman grabbed a handgun and hid in a crawl space with her two children when a man broke in last week and approached the family at their home northeast of Atlanta, police said. Herman called her husband on the phone, and with him reminding her of the lessons she recently learned at a shooting range, Herman opened fire, seriously wounding the burglary suspect.
The National Rifle Association tweeted a link to a news story about the shooting, and support poured in from others online, hailing Herman as a hero. The local sheriff said he was proud of the way she handled the situation.
"This lady decided that she wasn't going to be a victim, and I think everyone else looks at this and hopes they have the courage to do what she done," Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman said Wednesday.
Herman was working from home Friday when she saw a man walk up to the front door. She told police he rang the doorbell twice and then over and over again. He went back to his SUV, got something out and walked back toward the house, a police report said.
Herman took her 9-year-old son and daughter into an upstairs bedroom and locked the door. They went into bathroom and she locked that door, too. She got her handgun from a safe, the report said, and hid with her children. At some point, she called her husband, who kept her on the line and called 911 on another line.
In a 10-minute 911 recording released by the Walton County Sheriff's Office, Donnie Herman calmly explained what was happening to a dispatcher. His part of the conversation with his wife was also recorded.
"Is he in the house, Melinda? Are you sure? How do you know? You can hear him in the house?" Donnie Herman said.
His wife told him the intruder was coming closer.
"He's in the bedroom? Shh, shh, relax. Just remember everything that I showed you, everything that I taught you, all right?" Donnie Herman told his wife, explaining later to the dispatcher that he had recently taken her to a gun range.
It wasn't clear from the recording exactly when they went to range and Donnie Herman told The Associated Press on Wednesday the family didn't want to talk about the shooting.
After Donnie Herman told his wife police were on the way, he started shouting: "She shot him. She's shootin' him. She's shootin' him. She's shootin' him. She's shootin' him."
"OK," the dispatcher responded.
"Shoot him again! Shoot him!" Donnie Herman yelled. He told the dispatcher he heard a lot of screaming, but he seems to get increasingly worried when he doesn't hear anything from his wife.
Melinda Herman told police she started shooting the man when he opened the door to the crawl space. The man pleaded with her to stop, but she kept firing until she had emptied her rounds, she told police. She then fled to a neighbor's house with her children.
The man drove away in his SUV. Police found the SUV on another subdivision street and discovered a man bleeding from his face and body in a nearby wooded area. Police identified the suspect as 32-year-old Paul Slater of Atlanta.
Chapman said the hospital asked him not to comment on Slater's condition, but he said he is not certain Slater will survive. Authorities have a warrant but haven't formally arrested Slater yet. They plan to charge him with burglary, possession of tools for the commission of a crime and aggravated assault, Walton County sheriff's Capt. Greg Hall said.
A phone number for Slater was not listed and it was not clear whether he has an attorney.
Authorities believe Slater targeted a home in another local subdivision but left when confronted by the homeowner, Chapman said.
 
Foxrac said:
Are you sure?
Guns and Gun Deaths, State by State | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
Click to expand...

yes... I'm pretty sure with just about everything I've said. it would be in your best interest to correct me rather than asking me if I'm sure because this definitely means you are not sure with yourself.

I can easily see many questionable statements in that article. do you seriously believe that Alaska has higher gun deaths than California? Alaska has about 722,000 people and California has about 38 million people.... and California has tons of violent gang members with guns.... and yet Alaska has higher gun deaths than California? did the result including both accidental deaths and murders? what kind of data is he using?

I see that Sam, a person who performed this calculation, is clearly not well-versed with this subject. comical.

next time... correct me wrong. not ask me if I'm sure.
 
Jiro said:
yes... I'm pretty sure with just about everything I've said. it would be in your best interest to correct me rather than asking me if I'm sure because this definitely means you are not sure with yourself.

I can easily see many questionable statements in that article. do you seriously believe that Alaska has higher gun deaths than California? Alaska has about 722,000 people and California has about 38 million people.... and California has tons of violent gang members with guns.... and yet Alaska has higher gun deaths than California? did the result including both accidental deaths and murders? what kind of data is he using?

I see that Sam, a person who performed this calculation, is clearly not well-versed with this subject. comical.

next time... correct me wrong. not ask me if I'm sure.
Click to expand...

In statistic, the population isn't matter if they use ratio - based on 100,000 population or per 100,000. Alaska is small population but they have highest firearm deaths based on ratio since California has most population and the firearm deaths are much less on ratio.

Without ratio, Alaska may have less numbers because they are smaller state, since California has more numbers because of larger population, however those are not case if use ratio on statistic.

The firearm deaths include any deaths that caused by firearm, including suicide, murder and accident.

I found other chart - that's may more older when compare to Sam's work.
Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 statistics - states compared - Crime data on StateMaster
 
Foxrac said:
In statistic, the population isn't matter if they use ratio - based on 100,000 population or per 100,000. Alaska is small population but they have highest firearm deaths based on ratio since California has most population and the firearm deaths are much less on ratio.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. :thumb:
 
Foxrac said:
I found it - States with most restrictive gun-control laws have lower gun-related deaths, study finds

For me, I don't believe that more guns will lead to less deaths that caused by firearm, so it is much dispute for sure.
Click to expand...

eh...

More research is needed on the links between specific weapons regulations and fatalities, but "the data supports the common-sense conclusion that gun laws are a significant factor in a state's rate of gun deaths," said the report.
Click to expand...

weak sauce. this article reeks of Brady Campaign's misinformation and disinformation.

Gun Death Data Points In Both Directions - Forbes
FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts

both articles disagree with the "more guns = more deaths" assessment.
 
Foxrac said:
In statistic, the population isn't matter if they use ratio - based on 100,000 population or per 100,000. Alaska is small population but they have highest firearm deaths based on ratio since California has most population and the firearm deaths are much less on ratio.

Without ratio, Alaska may have less numbers because they are smaller state, since California has more numbers because of larger population, however those are not case if use ratio on statistic.

The firearm deaths include any deaths that caused by firearm, including suicide, murder and accident.

I found other chart - that's may more older when compare to Sam's work.
Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 statistics - states compared - Crime data on StateMaster
Click to expand...

exactly my point! it simply does not add up.

I'm not interested in suicide or accident. that's moot point. what we're mainly concerned with is homicide by firearm. Alaska has a high rate of suicide and banning a gun or more gun restrictions wouldn't lower its suicide issue. they'd have to tackle the cause of suicide, not the method of suicide.
 
Jiro said:
eh...

weak sauce. this article reeks of Brady Campaign's misinformation and disinformation.

Gun Death Data Points In Both Directions - Forbes
FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts

both articles disagree with the "more guns = more deaths" assessment.
Click to expand...

Jiro said:
exactly my point! it simply does not add up.

I'm not interested in suicide or accident. that's moot point. what we're mainly concerned with is homicide by firearm. Alaska has a high rate of suicide and banning a gun or more gun restrictions wouldn't lower its suicide issue. they'd have to tackle the cause of suicide, not the method of suicide.
Click to expand...

I have difficult to believe your claim from #307 because it is very dispute.

I found statistic that met your request about firearm deaths by homicide.
Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

The chart in the link is from FBI data.

For me, I don't think it has much correlation because numbers are mixed up, such as South Carolina is gun friendly state but it has more homicide by firearm than in New York. Other example about Alaska, they are gun friendly state but less homicide by firearm than in California. What's most shocking about Illinois is lower than New York.

It is best vs. worst, regardless on status of gun laws.
 
Foxrac said:
I have difficult to believe your claim from #307 because it is very dispute.

I found statistic that met your request about firearm deaths by homicide.
Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

The chart in the link is from FBI data.

For me, I don't think it has much correlation because numbers are mixed up, such as South Carolina is gun friendly state but it has more homicide by firearm than in New York. Other example about Alaska, they are gun friendly state but less homicide by firearm than in California.

It is best vs. worst, regardless on status of gun laws.
Click to expand...
Yeah, those rates of gun deaths are caused by maniacs so gun laws have nothing to do with it. In other words, do gun laws cause people to become maniacs? No, it doesn't make sense.
 
Foxrac said:
I have difficult to believe your claim from #307 because it is very dispute.

I found statistic that met your request about firearm deaths by homicide.
Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

The chart in the link is from FBI data.

For me, I don't think it has much correlation because numbers are mixed up, such as South Carolina is gun friendly state but it has more homicide by firearm than in New York. Other example about Alaska, they are gun friendly state but less homicide by firearm than in California. What's most shocking about Illinois is lower than New York.

It is best vs. worst, regardless on status of gun laws.
Click to expand...

your link proves my point. all we have to do is look at the most gun-restrictive states and based on your link, it's not going too well. to me - it clearly points out that more gun laws = more gun deaths. it's clearly not working well.
 
Jiro said:
your link proves my point. all we have to do is look at the most gun-restrictive states and based on your link, it's not going too well. to me - it clearly points out that more gun laws = more gun deaths. it's clearly not working well.
Click to expand...

In bold - I disagree with you because states with gun friendly laws won't make firearm deaths so lower, look at Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.

If California, New Jersey, Illinois and New York have high numbers in ratio than all states so your argument will be reasonable, but it didn't happen. It means - it hasn't make anything to lower, even if they are gun friendly state like Louisiana.
 
More gun laws, more gun deaths; less gun laws, less gun deaths are misconception because the studies don't put group about whichever is high, or low.
 
Foxrac said:
In bold - I disagree with you because states with gun friendly laws won't make firearm deaths so lower, look at Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.

If California, New Jersey, Illinois and New York have high numbers in ratio than all states so your argument will be reasonable, but it didn't happen. It means - it hasn't make anything to lower, even if they are gun friendly state like Louisiana.
Click to expand...
What about the District of Columbia?

I'm curious how the state ratios break down by city? That is, sometimes a state is gun friendly but certain large-population cities within the state are gun restrictive.
 
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