Twinkies is going out of business !

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I think both parties are to blame, but their blame plays a minor role. It is just a smokescreen to blame either sides for ___ reason. Both the execs and the workers are resposible for the next installment of Hostess' future. Workers wanted more money. Execs wanted more money - and had power to get them. Both knew how the inner company works (to a general extent).
The major difference between the workers and the execs are the amount of corporate power they held.

The real problem originates from American culture, and the American Dream which encourages individuals who follow in pursuit of it. American economy teaches us a couple of broad, simple things:
beat our competitors, stand up for your rights/put a fight, and most importantly, keep getting money - by any means necessary.

So what happened to the workers and top dogs of Twinkies & Co? Everyone's fighting for money since they all need higher pay, ironically, for the same reasons.

If US capitalism is addressed in a way that satisfies both the rich and working class, this kind of conflict can be avoided. In the meantime, it's Max Weber, Friedrich Engels and Emile Durkheim all over again.
 
diehardbiker said:
Thats why unions is not needed. It is now between Wal fart and Uncle Sam, and if Wal-Fart goes out of business, who is gonna to blame to? Its much easier that way than with unions. In other words, this news is actually makes executives look bad not workers.
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There is big issue with OSHA - they got politicized because right wing groups wants OSHA to become voluntary and allow companies to refuse to enforce the OSHA. The moderates and progressives support OSHA as requirement for all companies.

If OSHA was politicized and no longer to enforce so form the union is other option to strengthen the work safety, however no easy because managers or executives are free to dispute the contract. There is other problem - the right wing group may make illegal to unionize so no win situation.

There is strong union presence in Canada (30%), so it was same percent that USA had in 1960's and 1970's, but dropped to less than 12% now due to strong anti-union among corporations and flawed labor laws that leading for unions to be corrupted, so the labor law need to be reform to limit union power and prevent them from becoming corrupted.
 
Foxrac said:
There is big issue with OSHA - they got politicized because right wing groups wants OSHA to become voluntary and allow companies to refuse to enforce the OSHA. The moderates and progressives support OSHA as requirement for all companies.

If OSHA was politicized and no longer to enforce so form the union is other option to strengthen the work safety, however no easy because managers or executives are free to dispute the contract. There is other problem - the right wing group may make illegal to unionize so no win situation.

There is strong union presence in Canada (30%), so it was same percent that USA had in 1960's and 1970's, but dropped to less than 12% now due to strong anti-union among corporations and flawed labor laws that leading for unions to be corrupted, so the labor law need to be reform to limit union power and prevent them from becoming corrupted.
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:eek3: oh jeez, Interesting how do you know! are you kidding!
 
My philosophy - if workplace (executive/manager) make loss so it is loss for workers, so equally, such as if they don't earn profit so it is loss for from executives to workers.
 
Foxrac said:
There is big issue with OSHA - they got politicized because right wing groups wants OSHA to become voluntary and allow companies to refuse to enforce the OSHA. The moderates and progressives support OSHA as requirement for all companies.

If OSHA was politicized and no longer to enforce so form the union is other option to strengthen the work safety, however no easy because managers or executives are free to dispute the contract. There is other problem - the right wing group may make illegal to unionize so no win situation.

There is strong union presence in Canada (30%), so it was same percent that USA had in 1960's and 1970's, but dropped to less than 12% now due to strong anti-union among corporations and flawed labor laws that leading for unions to be corrupted, so the labor law need to be reform to limit union power and prevent them from becoming corrupted.
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Any union has nothing to do with job safety so that's why we have OSHA to handle it. OSHA is a federal agency and it can inspect any company for employees' safety on a workfloor.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Any union has nothing to do with job safety so that's why we have OSHA to handle it. OSHA is a federal agency and it can inspect any company for employees' safety on a workfloor.
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The job safety is part of contract, so the union handles job safety for union workers, however OSHA is just enforcement officer that look for any safety violation.
 
i dont read the whole 17 PAGES of this... my family are believed to eat the organic supplies which are healthy to feed us. we raised to eat from the garden . i blessed them for feed us right. Now i m older and im just fine with same size with no gain.
 
Foxrac said:
The job safety is part of contract, so the union handles job safety for union workers, however OSHA is just enforcement officer that look for any safety violation.
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OSHA requires my management to give weekly safety talks which include how to save your back by lifting properly, how to handle hazardous materials, ETC. In other words, my union has nothing to do with it. Clear? Only one thing the union can help its member with is work-related injury. For example, if OWCP denies the claim, the union can fight for it. That's all.
 
Foxrac, sorry he is right. I worked in non-unions factory and did work for unions. Unions don't really give rat shit about safety. It is no longer their problem since OSHA is there to deal with. I had to hear supervisors and management over OSHA BS, mind you that was from non-union factory.
What I don't like about unions is that workers have to pick whatever assignment is left for them based on seniority not performance. The worker that has the longest seniority gets whats available for him or her to pick while the least seniority may not get the position wanted and stuck with it. It DECREASES overall workplace performance. While non-union, manager figures out which position fits employees to maximum performance and efficiency. That is how it is done with non-union, not unionized ones.


CrazyPaul said:
OSHA requires my management to give weekly safety talks which include how to save your back by lifting properly, how to handle hazardous materials, ETC. In other words, my union has nothing to do with it. Clear? Only one thing the union can help its member with is work-related injury. For example, if OWCP denies the claim, the union can fight for it. That's all.
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diehardbiker said:
Foxrac, sorry he is right. I worked in non-unions factory and did work for unions. Unions don't really give rat shit about safety. It is no longer their problem since OSHA is there to deal with. I had to hear supervisors and management over OSHA BS, mind you that was from non-union factory.
What I don't like about unions is that workers have to pick whatever assignment is left for them based on seniority not performance. The worker that has the longest seniority gets whats available for him or her to pick while the least seniority may not get the position wanted and stuck with it. It DECREASES overall workplace performance. While non-union, manager figures out which position fits employees to maximum performance and efficiency. That is how it is done with non-union, not unionized ones.
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I doubt that you can prove it.
 
Prove what?

Friend of mine is member of teamster union, he told me he wanted a position but had to wait until his seniority gets high enough for him to get it. Positions changes at his unionized warehouse every year.


CrazyPaul said:
I doubt that you can prove it.
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CrazyPaul said:
OSHA requires my management to give weekly safety talks which include how to save your back by lifting properly, how to handle hazardous materials, ETC. In other words, my union has nothing to do with it. Clear? Only one thing the union can help its member with is work-related injury. For example, if OWCP denies the claim, the union can fight for it. That's all.
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It looks like your union contracts are different, however I have some families that work at unionized workplace so work safety is part of their contract. I know unions can't fine the companies for safety violation, but OSHA does, however it may not help at all if OSHA are politicized.

Are you aware about some politicians want rid of OSHA or make as voluntary so allow companies to ignore the OSHA?

diehardbiker said:
Foxrac, sorry he is right. I worked in non-unions factory and did work for unions. Unions don't really give rat shit about safety. It is no longer their problem since OSHA is there to deal with. I had to hear supervisors and management over OSHA BS, mind you that was from non-union factory.
What I don't like about unions is that workers have to pick whatever assignment is left for them based on seniority not performance. The worker that has the longest seniority gets whats available for him or her to pick while the least seniority may not get the position wanted and stuck with it. It DECREASES overall workplace performance. While non-union, manager figures out which position fits employees to maximum performance and efficiency. That is how it is done with non-union, not unionized ones.
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Look my comment above so it is depending on union contracts and not all contracts are same about work safety.

I worked at Walmart (Wal Fart if you prefer to call) and they are nonunion workplace, but they gave employees who work for many years to earn the seniority since new employees have worst position so too many new employees quitted, known as high turnover.
 
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