CPS teacher strike and Illinois area....

Reba said:
Yet, teachers in Christian schools generally get paid less than half what the public school teachers get paid, and they get better results.
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better results = ?
 
I can see......a lot of kids thrive on incentives. So in a CPS, if a kid behaves badly, kick them out, right??? Kid will laugh because they know they'll be back in.

Many private schools don't allow for that. Kicked out, out for good.

Yes, the system is crooked.
 
TracyK said:
Hi all - I'm not even sure where to start on this. I couldn't quote from all of the misinformation posted in these comments so I am just going to bullet out some thoughts.

1) I am a teacher certified in the State of Illinois.

2) Whoever said you only need two years of college is incorrect. There is a bachelors degree requirement (4 years @ 40K a year) and you must certify within core subjects for grades 7-12.

3) If you are employed in the city of Chicago in public service (police, fire, EMTs, teachers) you MUST live within the city limits. While you may save on commuting costs, your salary (especially starting out) barely covers the basics of city living.

4) In addition to health benefits, salary, safety, and evaluation requirements, Chicago teachers are being asked to extend the teaching day by 90 minutes AND add 10 additional days of school. Originally, this additional work time was to be imposed with NO change in wages. 180 days * 90 minutes = 16,200 minutes/270 hours PLUS 10 additional school days. Essentially this is a pay cut for all teachers.

5) If you are a teacher in Illinois and you announce your retirement with 3 years notice, your salary for those 3 years increases substantially. This is to boost your retirement pay (which is a % of your final 5 years average salary) and compensate for low wages during your career. This is negotiated by the union. As a result, comparing the average salary is a skewed statistic, because it includes salary boosts of retiring teachers. This is a primary reason the salary numbers do not match between the city and the union.

6) Comparing a small business to teaching is apples to oranges. If you provide better service your small business thrives, you make more money. If a teacher provides better service there is no financial incentive to do so. This is another pitfall of unionization.

7) The pitfall of viewing a K-12 education as free child care (which admittedly many parents do) is that we compare teachers to the role of babysitter. This diminishes the professional respect for teachers, and diminishes their perceived value to society.

8) Whoever wrote, if you want to make more money go get a business degree. PLEASE re-think this. We NEED smart people to be educators. We need to change the role of teachers so that smart people see teaching as an option, instead of getting teachers who cannot make it through more lucrative programs at university.

9) Teachers spend more time with MOST people's children than the children's own parents. They have the capability to mold our future. We need to support them and compensate them accordingly. We need to acknowledge the work they do and how difficult it is. They are on the front lines. A couple of weeks ago, in my small Illinois town, a HS student brought a gun and shot it in the classroom. A teacher saved the lives of many by subduing the student, he is a first year teacher making 28K. To even see the other side of 70K, he will have to teach for 35 years, and keep going to school to get more than a modest annual raise.

10) My thought is that we have a much greater problem in this society - how we fund and value education. One of the greatest books on the subject is Savage Inequalities.

11) Look at the salaries of coaches in college compared to professors. What is celebrated in schools? Sports success! How many extra curricular sporting events vs. academic events? How many hours does the average parent spend taking kids to camp, practice, games vs hours spent on homework?

12) I left teaching after 5 years and doubled my salary in the private sector. My husband and I would not have been able to make ends meet with two educators in the family. Something is wrong with that picture!

I do not have the answers. But, I think our country is in desperate need of a major educational reform. From top to bottom, parents, government, students, funding everything needs to be analyzed.

It is past my bedtime :lol: I should have never jumped on my soap box. But just some food for thought. Serious dialogue needs to occur and action needs to be taken. This is what the Chicago strike brings to my mind. We are all in this together - poorly educated students bode poorly for our future as a country....

If you could read this thank a teacher. tlk
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My experience with teachers is getting old as most of those that were friends and neighbors that taught have moved and/or retired. But, it does let me shine some light on history.

My mother taught in the 1920's and 30's and even then preferred the 2nd grade that she taught saying that at that age they had not lost their interest in learning.

Even when I was in grade school our principal manged the city swimming pool in the summer. So, teachers with other jobs in the summer is certainly nothing new.

In reference to item 2 in the quote from Tracy at the time I graduated from high school in 1960 in Illinois we were the last class that could get an elementary license with two years of college. BUT you had to be actively working toward the bachelors degree in Education. That ment taking night classes or going to school in the summer.

In the 1970's into the 1980's I lived in an 8 unit apartment building in Southern Illinois that the company I was with owned. We nick named it our "teachers building" because 6 of the units were occupied by gals that were either teaching or retired for it. I as a bookkeeper was one of the exceptions. Of those 6 I know one left to write and also works at Walmart (unless she has since retired as her age is borderline for retirement); one moved to a district with better pay and/or other terms that she considered an improvement; one went into administration and has since retired; one I know is retired and I don't remember her doing anything else before retirement. She did teach in a larger district but commuted because of wanting to live close to family members that needed help; the gal that was already retired at that time has since died.

Also, the retirement for Chicago teachers and "downstate" differs greatly. But, the term "downstate" covers more distance than some realize. Even where I live which is 60-80 miles east of St. Louis, MO is a good 5 hours driving time to Chicago and there is a good deal of the state south of us. The retirement for this vast area is now one of the things that our governor is wanting to make big changes to. I am not familiar with all of it but if it is anything like other programs he is attacking the full implications have not been well thought out.

I hope you find this snapshot of the past interesting.

Also, I get the impression that many talking about hours worked are forgetting that it is NOT just the hours in the classroom that teachers put in. Outside the classroom lesson planning and grading papers (homework & tests) is necessary.
 
Wow, I'm learning a lot from CPS strike. I don't know anyone who is a CPS, but it's practically front page news all over Chicago area.

I've always thought of USA as a free country and still do. I didn't think anyone had the right to bar strikes. Not saying that you should not strike, but you should be able to exercise the right to strike.

I think it's wrong to strike when it's supposed to be school year, but I think Mayor is wrong to try force them back to work. I guess you have to use political clout to try force them back to work. You don't see that in construction or UPS business or do we?
 
Reba said:
Grades. SAT scores. Percentage going on to college.
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why's that? what is it that made it more successful over public schools? daily morning prayer? j/k
 
dereksbicycles said:
Wow, I'm learning a lot from CPS strike. I don't know anyone who is a CPS, but it's practically front page news all over Chicago area.

I've always thought of USA as a free country and still do. I didn't think anyone had the right to bar strikes. Not saying that you should not strike, but you should be able to exercise the right to strike.

I think it's wrong to strike when it's supposed to be school year, but I think Mayor is wrong to try force them back to work. I guess you have to use political clout to try force them back to work. You don't see that in construction or UPS business or do we?
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construction and UPS are private business.... their employees are allowed to strike whenever or however they want.

public service has strict law for strike. that's why NYC MTA (subway) workers can't strike. They did strike last year but they ended it quickly because they did not want to go to jail and get fined.
 
Jane B. said:
Also, I get the impression that many talking about hours worked are forgetting that it is NOT just the hours in the classroom that teachers put in. Outside the classroom lesson planning and grading papers (homework & tests) is necessary.
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I totally forgot to mention that. I do get the impression that some posters are viewing teaching job like "business" when it's actually not. Their job doesn't just conventionally begins at 8am and ends at 3pm. Teachers do put in additional ~5 hrs after school for mentoring, dealing with angry parents, "see me after school", grading, and planning.

It sucks that teachers get sick more often than others because of frequent contact with kids and some sick kids. Handful of my teacher friends get so exhausted everyday that they go to bed at around 9pm. They frequently get frustrated and sometimes depressed because they had to put up with disrespectful kids on daily basis and many kids just don't care about education.

sad...... :(
 
Reba said:
Don't people receiving SS retirement pensions work 35 years or more, too?

I started working and paying into SS 45 years ago. I have to work at least four more years to be eligible to collect it. That means working almost 50 years for my SS retirement. If 35 years is not worth it, then how is 50 years better? During my entire working life I've never made an annual salary even close to what the Chicago teachers make, and I have a bachelor's degree, plus other training. I don't expect any income guarantees, so why should they? Why should anyone?

BTW, I really don't expect to retire at age 65. :)
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If you have been paying in for 45 years you have more than enough quarters of coverage to collect. You could quit working at something covered by SS now. What you have to wait on in order to collect (unless you become disabled according to SS determination of disabled) is your age.

I am not sure of your age but you can take reduced benefits at 62 but for most of us full retirement under SS has increased some beyond 65. If covered by Medicare that still kicks in at 65. I say IF because many teachers did not pay into Medicare unless they worked enough quarters in other jobs (such as part-time and/or summers).
 
Jiro said:
I totally forgot to mention that. I do get the impression that some posters are viewing teaching job like "business" when it's actually not. Their job doesn't just conventionally begins at 8am and ends at 3pm. Teachers do put in additional ~5 hrs after school for mentoring, dealing with angry parents, "see me after school", grading, and planning.

It sucks that teachers get sick more often than others because of frequent contact with kids and some sick kids. Handful of my teacher friends get so exhausted everyday that they go to bed at around 9pm. They frequently get frustrated and sometimes depressed because they had to put up with disrespectful kids on daily basis and many kids just don't care about education.

sad...... :(
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and to think that my girlfriend had hoped to get a teaching job at one point. It gets frustrating that some parents are inconsiderate of what teachers do. Not saying that every parents should not complain, but try to think of how many kids and parents and people in higher levels the teachers deal with on daily basis. Yeah, it's mind boggling!!!
 
Reba said:
Yet, teachers in Christian schools generally get paid less than half what the public school teachers get paid, and they get better results.
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But . . any private school Christian or not does NOT have to accept every kid that applies. Public schools have to accept all kids that are old enough and live in the district.
 
It must be tough to fill up some places in Chicago areas. See, I am sure that a lot of people would live in Blue Island or Lansing and commute to Chicago so that they can be CPS. It's just too expensive in Chicago. Those 2 cities that I mentioned above are cheaper than Chicago to live in. I'm sure that is one reason why many teachers are striking or those just don't want to become teachers because of those restrictions. I hope that can be addressed in the next deal, but I doubt it.
 
dereksbicycles said:
and to think that my girlfriend had hoped to get a teaching job at one point. It gets frustrating that some parents are inconsiderate of what teachers do. Not saying that every parents should not complain, but try to think of how many kids and parents and people in higher levels the teachers deal with on daily basis. Yeah, it's mind boggling!!!
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Lot of young teachers get frustrated easily and quit in a few years because they're stuck in "ghetto" schools with no end in sight of moving up to better schools since many older teachers are not "moving on" or retiring as expected due to shaky economy.
 
Jane B. said:
If you have been paying in for 45 years you have more than enough quarters of coverage to collect. You could quit working at something covered by SS now. What you have to wait on in order to collect (unless you become disabled according to SS determination of disabled) is your age.

I am not sure of your age but you can take reduced benefits at 62 but for most of us full retirement under SS has increased some beyond 65. If covered by Medicare that still kicks in at 65. I say IF because many teachers did not pay into Medicare unless they worked enough quarters in other jobs (such as part-time and/or summers).
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I'm 61, so I'm not yet eligible. There's no way I could get by on just SS much less the reduced benefits. Hence, I will continue working for as long as physically possible.

Since I'm self-employed, I pay both the employer and employe shares of the SS "contribution."

My mom and MIL both got retirement pensions from SS and the teachers' plan. They also both got Medicare coverage. Maybe it depends on the state or the era in which one worked for the schools.
 
Jane B. said:
But . . any private school Christian or not does NOT have to accept every kid that applies. Public schools have to accept all kids that are old enough and live in the district.
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Maybe the public school administrations need to buckle down on the school troublemakers so they aren't disrupting classes. There is too much tolerance for bad behavior in public schools.
 
Reba said:
Maybe the public school administrations need to buckle down on the school troublemakers so they aren't disrupting classes. There is too much tolerance for bad behavior in public schools.
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that would probably means over 60% of students in ghetto schools needing to be buckled down. and schools would have to deal with angry irrational parents or truants/rebels on daily basis with no end in sight. it's a crap situation. it cannot really be solved or handled at school level. it's a complex socioeconomic problem all the way down to students' homes. The city councils will have to revise its legal statutes to deal with it too at more compassionate level but tough.

"Rule with Iron Fist" style such as "Zero Tolerance Policy" or "Three-Strikes Law" isn't working. It will only put more troubled kids on streets which will lead to more gangs, crimes, and poverty.

So since you said Christian schools producing better results... would it work better if public schools hire them? or what is it that made Christian schools perform better than public schools?
 
Jiro said:
I totally forgot to mention that. I do get the impression that some posters are viewing teaching job like "business" when it's actually not. Their job doesn't just conventionally begins at 8am and ends at 3pm. Teachers do put in additional ~5 hrs after school for mentoring, dealing with angry parents, "see me after school", grading, and planning.

It sucks that teachers get sick more often than others because of frequent contact with kids and some sick kids. Handful of my teacher friends get so exhausted everyday that they go to bed at around 9pm. They frequently get frustrated and sometimes depressed because they had to put up with disrespectful kids on daily basis and many kids just don't care about education.

sad...... :(
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I appreciate that but teachers aren't the only people who work beyond their scheduled 40 hours per week without compensation. They don't all get paid sick or personal leave days either.
 
Reba said:
I appreciate that but teachers aren't the only people who work beyond their scheduled 40 hours per week without compensation. They don't all get paid sick or personal leave days either.
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It's really apple-orange to compare teachers with contractors/small business owners/labor workers/etc. Teachers should not be on the same level as them. Teachers go to college and take certification and teach the young minds to be the next future for this country.

No teacher. No future.
 
Jiro said:
...So since you said Christian schools producing better results... would it work better if public schools hire them? or what is it that made Christian schools perform better than public schools?
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No, it wouldn't work for public schools to hire Christian school teachers because they would still be public schools. If a former Christian school teacher works for a public school, he or she becomes a public school teacher and is no longer a Christian school teacher. It's the whole set up and administration of the schools that is different. Their philosophies, viewpoints, goals, and curricula differ.
 
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