This is a frightening situation in my area

Steinhauer said:
I wasn't implying that mentally ill meant helplessness and incompetence. I was implying that Delante was a criminal.
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but... let's stick with facts at hand. Delante was at mental institution... not prison.
 
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Jiro said:
but... let's stay on facts at hand. Delante was at mental institution... not prison.
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post #278

http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/89816-frightening-situation-my-area-10.html#post1806716

Has a lengthy article about how criminal juvenile offenders often times wind up in those outsourced "mental facilities". Those are some facts that are hard to dispute.

Anyways, I just wanted to explain why I came to the conclusions I did about Delante being involved in gang activity - no, not specifically to you Jiro - but generally.

I used to get my haircut at 8th and K streets NE in DC. It is near the Riggs Bank and down the street from Union Station. I lived in DC for 6 years. Anyways, there was one day I was sitting down in the barber's chair and I was facing the big storefront window and I could see another store, I think, a laundromat, across the street. All of a sudden, there had to be about 20-25 african american males, all with red shirts, some had red bandanas, converge on this laundromat. They dragged a female and male couple out into the middle of the street and made a very public beating in broad daylight. I *think* they killed the both of them.

As I recall, there were uniformed officers that suddenly walked the other direction. The barber, turned my chair away from the window. He visibly told me to not pay any attention to them and there was nothing anyone could do and an ambulance would show up soon.

This was all "matter of factly" done as if everyone was conditioned to not respond or react.

It was a wake up call for me. Of course, there was the gang "hit" at the gas station I bought cigarettes from. It was filmed. The district 5 police were never able to catch the guy.

Stuff like this happens everyday in DC. When I read about an escaped "mental health" or whatever dude who was charged with attempted murder, is 19, is from DC, has been arrested for playing around with a monitoring device on Euclid street ... I immediately thought "gang member".

I do not think "mentally ill". Maybe being a gang member is the new "mental illness" and prison needs to be the hospital. Just my opinion regardless.
 
Reba said:
Was it a locked ward?
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It has already been stated that this is a secure facility.

Why is it, that even though the incident turned out fine, you continue to bring up "what ifs" and "could have beens". Are you that upset that it turned out in the exact way that all but an extremely few of these incidents turn out...without harm to another or to the patient?
 
Reba said:
...for now....
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And proper treatment will be the factor in whether he becomes a productive member of society or someone who revolves in and out of prison.

You know, it seems that you want people to recidivate. It gives you something to complain about and point fingers toward.
 
Steinhauer said:
post #278

http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/89816-frightening-situation-my-area-10.html#post1806716

Has a lengthy article about how criminal juvenile offenders often times wind up in those outsourced "mental facilities". Those are some facts that are hard to dispute.

Anyways, I just wanted to explain why I came to the conclusions I did about Delante being involved in gang activity - no, not specifically to you Jiro - but generally.

I used to get my haircut at 8th and K streets NE in DC. It is near the Riggs Bank and down the street from Union Station. I lived in DC for 6 years. Anyways, there was one day I was sitting down in the barber's chair and I was facing the big storefront window and I could see another store, I think, a laundromat, across the street. All of a sudden, there had to be about 20-25 african american males, all with red shirts, some had red bandanas, converge on this laundromat. They dragged a female and male couple out into the middle of the street and made a very public beating in broad daylight. I *think* they killed the both of them.

As I recall, there were uniformed officers that suddenly walked the other direction. The barber, turned my chair away from the window. He visibly told me to not pay any attention to them and there was nothing anyone could do and an ambulance would show up soon.

This was all "matter of factly" done as if everyone was conditioned to not respond or react.

It was a wake up call for me. Of course, there was the gang "hit" at the gas station I bought cigarettes from. It was filmed. The district 5 police were never able to catch the guy.

Stuff like this happens everyday in DC. When I read about an escaped "mental health" or whatever dude who was charged with attempted murder, is 19, is from DC, has been arrested for playing around with a monitoring device on Euclid street ... I immediately thought "gang member".

I do not think "mentally ill". Maybe being a gang member is the new "mental illness" and prison needs to be the hospital. Just my opinion regardless.
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This post reeks ignorance.
 
Jiro said:
but... let's stick with facts at hand. Delante was at mental institution... not prison.
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Exactly. But it seems that some are not satisfied with the facts. They want to create things that just are not there. Which in and of itself is a symptom of maladjustment.

Some people just feel better about themselves as long as they can find something negative to point out that they think is below them.

Mental illness knows no boundaries. Those that are intolerant are just as susceptible to having a mental illness in their lifetime as anyone else. And I doubt seriously they would want the same treatment they recommend for others.
 
jillio said:
It has already been stated that this is a secure facility.
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Does a six-foot wooden privacy fence meant a facility secure? If that's the case, then my back yard qualifies. We have the same fence with a locked gate.

If the outside security is so flimsy, how do we know that the building security is any better? I haven't read or heard anything that said they were locked in.

Also, I'm curious, if residents are locked in their rooms, isn't that a fire danger?

Why is it, that even though the incident turned out fine, you continue to bring up "what ifs" and "could have beens". Are you that upset that it turned out in the exact way that all but an extremely few of these incidents turn out...without harm to another or to the patient?
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Wow, you sure have a bizarre take on things. I'm thrilled that no one was hurt this time. Does that mean nothing will happen in the future without some changes being made at the center?

Do you consider an escapee making it all the way back to DC with a one-week unaccounted for absence, "fine?" Since we don't know how the fourth guy got back to DC, we still don't know the whole story. Was he some how able to stay in contact with people on the outside in order to make arrangements for the trip home?
 
jillio said:
And proper treatment will be the factor in whether he becomes a productive member of society or someone who revolves in and out of prison.
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How does he get proper treatment if he doesn't stay with the program? Is escaping back to home part of the program? He might not be in and out of prison but he's been in and out of treatment centers.

You know, it seems that you want people to recidivate. It gives you something to complain about and point fingers toward.
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You are so far off base it isn't funny.

I guess if you can't make any topical points you resort to attacking the poster. That's pretty lame.
 
Reba said:
Does a six-foot wooden privacy fence meant a facility secure? If that's the case, then my back yard qualifies. We have the same fence with a locked gate.

Perhaps if you would take the time to educate yourself on these matters, since it would appear to be a huge area of concern for you, you would not have the need to ask the same questions over and over again.
If the outside security is so flimsy, how do we know that the building security is any better? I haven't read or heard anything that said they were locked in.

You evidently don't even know what the term "secure facility" entails. I wouldn't expect you to know anything about the building security.

Also, I'm curious, if residents are locked in their rooms, isn't that a fire danger?
Prisoners are locked in their cells. Is that a fire danger? And no one said that anyone is locked in their rooms in a secure facility. Once again, you are making assumptions, incorrectly, about a topic that you know very little about.


Wow, you sure have a bizarre take on things. I'm thrilled that no one was hurt this time. Does that mean nothing will happen in the future without some changes being made at the center?
It means that the same probability applies to the next case as applied to this case. And that probability is that it will turn out the same way this one did. You are not in a position to determine changes, as you are unaware of the variables that are all involved in setting protocol for a mental health facility. Your only concern seems to be the very minor risk such a facility's patitients might possibly pose to you.[/COLOR

]Do you consider an escapee making it all the way back to DC with a one-week unaccounted for absence, "fine?" Since we don't know how the fourth guy got back to DC, we still don't know the whole story. Was he some how able to stay in contact with people on the outside in order to make arrangements for the trip home?
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Again, nothing more than a bunch of what ifs and could have happened. What difference does it make how he made it back? Of course a patient is able to stay in contact with their families while they are hospitalized, just the same as a prisoner is permitted contact with family and friends during their incarceration?:roll: What, you think they just stick them in a facility and cut them totally off from life?

Ever hear of phones? Once outside the facility, there are pay phones on every corner. Contact did not necessarily have to occur from inside the facility.

However, since this seems to be such an issue for you, I suggest that you begin taking the action necessary to institute those changes that you believe are so necessary.
 
Reba said:
How does he get proper treatment if he doesn't stay with the program? Is escaping back to home part of the program? He might not be in and out of prison but he's been in and out of treatment centers.


You are so far off base it isn't funny.

I guess if you can't make any topical points you resort to attacking the poster. That's pretty lame.
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He had proper treatment prior, and he is back where he is still receiving proper treatment.:roll:

The poster, in this case, is addresssing this from a position of ignorance. Your reasoning is full of holes because your knowledge is full of holes. That is not an attack, it is simply a fact.

I really would have thought, that while a stigma is still attached, that most people would have enough knowledge regarding these issues to not come at them from a position of unreasonable fear based on myth.
 
jillio said:
Perhaps if you would take the time to educate yourself on these matters, since it would appear to be a huge area of concern for you, you would not have the need to ask the same questions over and over again.
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OK, educate me. Is a six-foot wooden privacy fence "secure?"

You evidently don't even know what the term "secure facility" entails. I wouldn't expect you to know anything about the building security.
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OK, you tell me. What does "security facility" entail?

Prisoners are locked in their cells. Is that a fire danger?
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They have guards who are present and awake all night, in addition to sensors, monitors, and sprinkler systems. Also, their structures are built with minimal flammable materials, and with maximum firewalls and fire doors.

If the Summerville center has all those things, that's good. I don't know. Do you?

And no one said that anyone is locked in their rooms in a secure facility. Once again, you are making assumptions, incorrectly, about a topic that you know very little about.
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Do you know about their buildings or procedures? Please inform me.

It means that the same probability applies to the next case as applied to this case. And that probability is that it will turn out the same way this one did.
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How so? The people involved are individuals with various temperments, and each escape incident involves a different set of variables.

You are not in a position to determine changes...
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Of course not, and I never said that I was. I do have the right to ask questions about what's going on in my neighborhood.

...Your only concern seems to be the very minor risk such a facility's patitients might possibly pose to you.
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Risk to me? Not really. I'm concerned about the rest of my neighbors, such as the elderly people who live next door. If I had young children at home, I'd be concerned about them, too. Is caring about one's neighbors such a foreign concept?

Again, nothing more than a bunch of what ifs and could have happened. What difference does it make how he made it back?
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I hope you're not serious. It makes a difference if he hijacked a car, stole a parked car, had gang friends pick him up, stole money for a bus ticket, etc.

Of course a patient is able to stay in contact with their families while they are hospitalized, just the same as a prisoner is permitted contact with family and friends during their incarceration? What, you think they just stick them in a facility and cut them totally off from life?
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No. But should they be allowed unmonitored communications that allow them to plan escapes?

Also, not one of the four had a usable phone number for a next of kin to contact. The staff member said that they tried to call the next of kin numbers that were listed for each one. Three of the four were disconnected numbers. The fourth one was the office number for the DC representative, and wasn't in.

Ever hear of phones? Once outside the facility, there are pay phones on every corner. Contact did not necessarily have to occur from inside the facility.
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What decade are you living in? Almost all of the pay phones in our town and the surrounding area are gone. I haven't seen one in ages except in the rest areas on the interstate, and they're talking about closing those down.

However, since this seems to be such an issue for you, I suggest that you begin taking the action necessary to institute those changes that you believe are so necessary. .
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I'll keep your suggestion in mind.
 
jillio said:
He had proper treatment prior, and he is back where he is still receiving proper treatment.:roll:
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Where did you get that information? How do you know where he or the other three guys are? The paper said that they don't know where they'll be sent.

The poster, in this case, is addresssing this from a position of ignorance. Your reasoning is full of holes because your knowledge is full of holes. That is not an attack, it is simply a fact.
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Do you care to fill in these holes with your knowledge?

I really would have thought, that while a stigma is still attached, that most people would have enough knowledge regarding these issues to not come at them from a position of unreasonable fear based on myth.
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How can they have knowledge about these centers and what's going on if no one informs them, or if they are given misleading information? Why should the neighbors feel secure when they aren't given any information, and the website is misleading?
 
I don't think a mental institution with security system like a prison is conducive to treatment. Beside - this isn't a maximum-security type facility.
 
From a previous post:

"Reggie Sanders, public information officer for the D.C. Department of Youth Rehabilitation Services, said the fourth youth was captured in the Washington area, but Sanders did not have information on how Parker traveled north or where he is now. Likewise, Sanders said he could not say whether Parker or the other three youths will return to the Summerville facility or be housed elsewhere. Sanders said he did not know whether any of the four youths committed any other crimes while they were at large."

So, we don't know if they're getting the treatment that they need.
 
This was not the first time Parker didn't stick with the program:

"He failed to complete a diversion program and was sentenced to seven days in jail.

He was later found guilty on a charge of tampering with a monitoring device.

In March, Parker was ordered detained to a Pennsylvania residential treatment center for 90 days. It was unclear from the court papers what precipitated his transfer to South Carolina."

(from previous post)
 
Jiro said:
I don't think a mental institution with security system like a prison is conducive to treatment. Beside - this isn't a maximum-security type facility.
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It isn't a forensic unit. If these people had been deemed to be a danger to the community, they would have been in a forensic unit.
 
Reba said:
This was not the first time Parker didn't stick with the program:

"He failed to complete a diversion program and was sentenced to seven days in jail.

He was later found guilty on a charge of tampering with a monitoring device.

In March, Parker was ordered detained to a Pennsylvania residential treatment center for 90 days. It was unclear from the court papers what precipitated his transfer to South Carolina."

(from previous post)
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What exactly is your point, Reba? I would love to educate you, as you requested in a previous post. Unfortunately, I can't get passed your judgemental attitude and closed mindedness in order to educate you about these matters.
 
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