French burqa ban goes into force on monday

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Jiro said:
I see that you're confused. Let me help you. This french law is banning a full-faced veil - regardless of race or religion or color.
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from the OP's post:

French police will from Monday become the first officers in Europe empowered to intercept Muslim women wearing full-face veils and to threaten them with fines if they refuse to expose their faces.
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Steinhauer said:
from the OP's post:
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written by journalist in attempt to frame it as Islamophobia, mind you... I'm sure that the actual French law regarding burqa ban contains a neutral tone (meaning - it is not targeting a specific nationality nor religion).

it's simply banning a full-faced veil. that's all.
 
Jiro said:
written by journalist in attempt to frame it as Islamophobia, mind you... I'm sure that the actual French law regarding burqa ban contains a neutral tone (meaning - it is not targeting a specific nationality nor religion).

it's simply banning a full-faced veil. that's all.
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The law comes into effect at an already fraught moment in relations between the state and France's Muslim minority, with President Nicolas Sarkozy accused of stigmatising Islam to win back votes from a resurgent far right.

French officials estimate that only around 2,000 women, from a total Muslim population estimated at between four and six million, wear a niqab or a burqa, full-face veils that are traditional in parts of Arabia and South Asia.
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was there ever a time ... pre 9/11 ... that this was considered a "problem"?
 
Steinhauer said:
was there ever a time ... pre 9/11 ... that this was considered a "problem"?
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if I recalled correctly, it has been a problem for British and French for a long time.... including pre-9/11
 
Just throwing this in there:

The Habit: A History of the Clothing of Catholic Nuns by Elizabeth Kuhns - Powell's Books

I remember visiting my folks in Brooklyn (The Irish Catholics) and they had photographs of nuns in Ireland covering their faces with veils. They belonged to a specific order.

I also found photographs of veiled nuns using a google search. I also found veiled Eastern Orthodox nuns as well. Most of them are copyrighted and I can't copy them (why I posted the link to the photographs).
 
Steinhauer said:
I don't know how to word what I am trying to say (tired). Maybe someone who "gets it" can paraphrase.

Before 9/11 did Muslim women get drivers licenses? Before 9/11 did Muslim women wear hajibs? Before 9/11 was there this much public animosity aimed at Muslims?

Why is it that the Taliban and Al Quada are the definition of Islam to many people who are wishing to suppress the religious rights of peaceful Muslims?

Over the years, I have held differing opinions of Islam and Muslims. I was enraged after 9/11. So .... I can understand where a lot of the anger and suppression of Muslims is coming from. However, I personally feel that a lot of it is misdirected anger at peaceful Muslims.

Gee .. I hope I worded that right.
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You said it just fine, love.
 
Jiro said:
written by journalist in attempt to frame it as Islamophobia, mind you... I'm sure that the actual French law regarding burqa ban contains a neutral tone (meaning - it is not targeting a specific nationality nor religion).

it's simply banning a full-faced veil. that's all.
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The French law WAS carefully written to not come off as discrimination...except...it is! THEY HAVE EVEN SAID THAT THE BURQA IS NOT WELCOME IN FRANCE.
 
Steinhauer said:
There has also been a very well know history of the French hatred of Algerians. Dar Al Hayat
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French hatred?

Every new French president who tries to promote the relationship with Algeria fails, due to the weight of the history between the two countries.
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Then came the turn of former President Jacques Chirac; he tried to produce a treaty of friendship with his friend, President Abdel-Aziz Bouteflika.
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Then came President Nicholas Sarkozy, who described himself as the “estrangement president.” He visited Algeria before visiting Morocco, and this was a development in French policy, which usually assigned Morocco a privileged status in its foreign policy. When Sarkozy visited Algeria, he said that he was not trying to get a treaty of friendship, but a privileged and excellent relationship with President Bouteflika.
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But the French relationship with Tunisia is good, as it is with Qaddafi’s Libya and Morocco as well. The Moroccan monarch was recently a guest of the French president and his wife Carla Bruni in Paris. France’s relations are good with all of these states, with the exception of Algeria.
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I fail to see where French has a hatred toward Algerian or Islamic people. It is other way around.

I also fail to see any validity in your claim about animosity toward Islamic people due to 9/11.
 
TheOracle said:
The French law WAS carefully written to not come off as discrimination...except...it is! THEY HAVE EVEN SAID THAT THE BURQA IS NOT WELCOME IN FRANCE.
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can you please post the actual French law regarding burqa in its own word?
 
Jiro said:
French hatred?









I fail to see where French has a hatred toward Algerian or Islamic people. It is other way around.

I also fail to see any validity in your claim about animosity toward Islamic people due to 9/11.
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Uh ... dude, I didn't fall off the wagon yesterday.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/28/national/main6814690.shtml

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/portland_bomb_nut_mosque_burned_T0pyXIP2vTTWamzt8ONBZI

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jun/21/local/me-iebrief21
 
Jiro said:
can you please post the actual French law regarding burqa in its own word?
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In its own word? Huh?

I said that the law was carefully worded so that it did not appear to be religious discrimination.

But the French officials have clearly stated that the burqa was not welcome in France. It was all about the burqa and veiling. They said it won't be tolerated.
 
The french law goes like this "Forbidding the Dissimulation of the Face in the Public Space", so basically, the same as the NYC law.

However this is aimed at muslims. The french politicans behind this law aren't trying to hide this, because it's an election coming.
 
flip said:
The french law goes like this "Forbidding the Dissimulation of the Face in the Public Space", so basically, the same as the NYC law.

However this is aimed at muslims. The french politicans behind this law aren't trying to hide this, because it's an election coming.
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Does the French law ban the burqa without the veil ?

Also, I have NEVER heard of any woman getting into trouble for wearing a veil in NYC.
 
Steinhauer said:
Uh ... dude, I didn't fall off the wagon yesterday.
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You have already admitted in your previous post that you had misguided view and misdirected anger toward Islamic people. I can explain why you felt the animosity toward Islamic people was different - pre-9/11 and post-9/11.

As Elizabeth Loftus describes in her book Memory: Surprising New Insights into How We Remember and Why We Forget:

“Memory is imperfect. This is because we often do not see things accurately in the first place. But even if we take in a reasonably accurate picture of some experience, it does not necessarily stay perfectly intact in memory. Another force is at work. The memory traces can actually undergo distortion. With the passage of time, with proper motivation, with the introduction of special kinds of interfering facts, the memory traces seem sometimes to change or become transformed. These distortions can be quite frightening, for they can cause us to have memories of things that never happened. Even in the most intelligent among us is memory thus malleable.”
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flip said:
The french law goes like this "Forbidding the Dissimulation of the Face in the Public Space", so basically, the same as the NYC law.

However this is aimed at muslims. The french politicans behind this law aren't trying to hide this, because it's an election coming.
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Finally, some sensible person comes in.
 
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