Observation

ike you, I hate to hear "The only kids you see have failed." No they haven't. The educational system, and very often the medical establishment, has failed to address their needs appropriately. I see kids that amaze me every single day. It is amazing that they have survived and managed to do as well as they have given the huge obstacles that have been put in their way. These kids are bright and adaptive and resourceful. It is a shame that they have to use these great skills to get by when they could be using them to excel if they have the proper environment.
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Hell yes. And you're not even talking about the kids who weren't able to aquire oral abilty, right? Even kids who were able to aquire oral abilty weren't able to do really well orally. Remember how back during your sons and mine generations (not that long ago) it wasn't that unusual for an oral kid to attend Clarke or CID or whatever for around fourth grade from the mainstream? I'm kind of surprised that Clarke and CID aren't still doing that....or maybe they don't do that now, b/c while their issues are still significent, they can be served more in public school programs.
So many oral kids are basicly dog paddling in the mainstream. They're doing OK, but they could do SO much better if they had access to ASL and teachers who really knew how to teach dhh kids. The BIGGEST problem with mainstreaming kids with classic disabilties is the simple fact that even mainstream sped teachers do not get a lot of training on how to teach kids like us. Yes, there are kids who thrive with minimal accomondations in the mainstream......BUT, it does seem like most of those kids have helicopter parents. And before I'm attacked, there is nothing wrong with going to Princeton or Harvard or whatever if you have the smarts and attend them b/c they are hotbeds of intellectucal research. BUT, there do seem to be a lot of parents who immediratly gravitate to those schools or professions b/c they are Name Brand and Instantly Reconizable. Those kids would also prolly have done well in the mainstream even before 1974!
 
deafdyke said:
Hell yes. And you're not even talking about the kids who weren't able to aquire oral abilty, right? Even kids who were able to aquire oral abilty weren't able to do really well orally. Remember how back during your sons and mine generations (not that long ago) it wasn't that unusual for an oral kid to attend Clarke or CID or whatever for around fourth grade from the mainstream? I'm kind of surprised that Clarke and CID aren't still doing that....or maybe they don't do that now, b/c while their issues are still significent, they can be served more in public school programs.
So many oral kids are basicly dog paddling in the mainstream. They're doing OK, but they could do SO much better if they had access to ASL and teachers who really knew how to teach dhh kids. The BIGGEST problem with mainstreaming kids with classic disabilties is the simple fact that even mainstream sped teachers do not get a lot of training on how to teach kids like us. Yes, there are kids who thrive with minimal accomondations in the mainstream......BUT, it does seem like most of those kids have helicopter parents. And before I'm attacked, there is nothing wrong with going to Princeton or Harvard or whatever if you have the smarts and attend them b/c they are hotbeds of intellectucal research. BUT, there do seem to be a lot of parents who immediratly gravitate to those schools or professions b/c they are Name Brand and Instantly Reconizable. Those kids would also prolly have done well in the mainstream even before 1974!
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Yes, I do remember that. Kids rarely transferred to a school for the deaf, either oral or TC (the program most in use at that time), before 4th or 5th grade. That is when academic material begins to get much more difficult and requires more advanced language and creative thought that goes with advanced language skills. Additionally, it is when social issues begin to rear their ugly head, which compounds the academic issues. Kids that may have appeared to do fine earlier were actually accumulating delays and issues that did not become glaringly evident until that point. By then, the problems were already there and needed to be corrected. It is much, much easier to prevent those problems at the outset.
 
Kids rarely transferred to a school for the deaf, either oral or TC (the program most in use at that time), before 4th or 5th grade.
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Actually back then, Clarke had a HUGE middle school program.....and even promoted it in the early 00's, when I used to read Volta Voices at my college's school.
 
deafdyke said:
Hell yes. And you're not even talking about the kids who weren't able to aquire oral abilty, right? Even kids who were able to aquire oral abilty weren't able to do really well orally. Remember how back during your sons and mine generations (not that long ago) it wasn't that unusual for an oral kid to attend Clarke or CID or whatever for around fourth grade from the mainstream? I'm kind of surprised that Clarke and CID aren't still doing that....or maybe they don't do that now, b/c while their issues are still significent, they can be served more in public school programs.
So many oral kids are basicly dog paddling in the mainstream. They're doing OK, but they could do SO much better if they had access to ASL and teachers who really knew how to teach dhh kids. The BIGGEST problem with mainstreaming kids with classic disabilties is the simple fact that even mainstream sped teachers do not get a lot of training on how to teach kids like us. Yes, there are kids who thrive with minimal accomondations in the mainstream......BUT, it does seem like most of those kids have helicopter parents. And before I'm attacked, there is nothing wrong with going to Princeton or Harvard or whatever if you have the smarts and attend them b/c they are hotbeds of intellectucal research. BUT, there do seem to be a lot of parents who immediratly gravitate to those schools or professions b/c they are Name Brand and Instantly Reconizable. Those kids would also prolly have done well in the mainstream even before 1974!
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I was mainstreamed back in 1967 and did just fine. My mom (no helicopter parent) just made sure that the teacher understood what they were dealing with. I did well enough hearing wise with a HA to be able to handle it. Academically it wasn't a problem. It was the social arena that was tough. I survived that...WHEW! It wasn't bullying and all that stuff (none of that really went on for me) but rather I didn't fit until college. Yeah, some scars socially but it all rounded out in later years.
 
sr171soars said:
I was mainstreamed back in 1967 and did just fine. My mom (no helicopter parent) just made sure that the teacher understood what they were dealing with. I did well enough hearing wise with a HA to be able to handle it. Academically it wasn't a problem. It was the social arena that was tough. I survived that...WHEW! It wasn't bullying and all that stuff (none of that really went on for me) but rather I didn't fit until college. Yeah, some scars socially but it all rounded out in later years.
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Impossible. Don't you know that if you were oral and/or mainstreamed you absolutely must be permanently scarred from it and socially backward :giggle:
 
faire_jour said:
Impossible. Don't you know that if you were oral and/or mainstreamed you absolutely must be permanently scarred from it and socially backward :giggle:
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Yeah, I hear you ;)

I think in general there is a lot of truth in what they are saying but there are always exceptions to the rule. Life ain't for sissies... :shock:
 
Wirelessly posted

You are forgetting something..he was in deaf school for 4 YEARS.
I was mainstream from preschool to 12TH...with 30 classmates all my school years. Except LD english/grammar class. I wouldn't wish it on any kids.
 
deafgal001 said:
Wirelessly posted

You are forgetting something..he was in deaf school for 4 YEARS.
I was mainstream from preschool to 12TH...with 30 classmates all my school years. Except LD english/grammar class. I wouldn't wish it on any kids.
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Neither would I.

I simply hate when people decide that their own experience is the only valid one.
 
Wirelessly posted

Kids who love to read typically do well anyway. Those who don't will need help with their writing.
 
sr171soars said:
I was mainstreamed back in 1967 and did just fine. My mom (no helicopter parent) just made sure that the teacher understood what they were dealing with. I did well enough hearing wise with a HA to be able to handle it. Academically it wasn't a problem. It was the social arena that was tough. I survived that...WHEW! It wasn't bullying and all that stuff (none of that really went on for me) but rather I didn't fit until college. Yeah, some scars socially but it all rounded out in later years.
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Developmentally, kids at the college level tend to be more accepting and tolerant. Middle and high school are usually the toughest.

Glad you did well academically. Unfortunately, for some kids in some mainsteam placements, the social issues are so distracting that it affects their academic performance negatively. These things are so very important to adolescents. And that, as well, is a developmental stage that they are supposed to go through. Kids at that age are exploring and developing their identies, and it is very important that they appear to be just like everyone else. Peers are more important than parents.
 
deafgal001 said:
Wirelessly posted

Kids who love to read typically do well anyway. Those who don't will need help with their writing.
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Very true but more true for the deaf. It can fill the gap they miss with speech. That's a big part how come I did so well academically.
 
faire_jour said:
Impossible. Don't you know that if you were oral and/or mainstreamed you absolutely must be permanently scarred from it and socially backward :giggle:
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Evidently, you have, once again, missed the whole point of this thread, and have great difficulty understanding the meaning of the word "majority."

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.
 
sr171soars said:
Very true but more true for the deaf. It can fill the gap they miss with speech. That's a big part how come I did so well academically.
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I have always believed it was a good thing that my son seemed to inherit my love for reading. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a large part of his academic success.
 
jillio said:
It is the only valid one for them.:cool2:
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That is true. I have also found that after talking with many others that they share many of the same experiences I have. We even post it here. So it's not necessarily valid for just one. Yet you know some choose to ignore that. :)
 
jillio said:
I have always believed it was a good thing that my son seemed to inherit my love for reading. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a large part of his academic success.
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Glad to hear it. Reading needs to be encouraged more for all kids.

My son (13) likes to read but he loves the outdoors more (which is fine with me given the overweight kids these days). My daughter (10) is the reader like her father and she reads about a grade above her. I don't think either of them will hold a candle to their father in the reading department. My interests are so wide and vast that I can't even begin to count the thousands or tens of thousands books I have read in my life. That's okay as they both like to read and it will take them far in life. I don't want clones but kids who become well rounded adults.
 
sr171soars said:
Glad to hear it. Reading needs to be encouraged more for all kids.

My son (13) likes to read but he loves the outdoors more (which is fine with me given the overweight kids these days). My daughter (10) is the reader like her father and she reads about a grade above her. I don't think either of them will hold a candle to their father in the reading department. My interests are so wide and vast that I can't even begin to count the thousands or tens of thousands books I have read in my life. That's okay as they both like to read and it will take them far in life. I don't want clones but kids who become well rounded adults.
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Nodding. And with time, if they continue to read, their interests will broaden.
 
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