Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

GrendelQ said:
Or let the toolbox be offered without bias, and the decision around which tool or tools to use be based on the individual child's needs, abilities, and available resources.
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+1

Well said!!!

That's they way it should be. There is no one best way to raise every child but let's hope each parent finds the best way to raise their child.
Rick
 
Oceanbreeze said:
+1

No, I'm not deaf. But, I still agree with this. Why? Because, I have had experience in the "fix me" area. Aided walking. "Lets slap braces on her and throw crutches at her and teach her to walk because her life will be better for it!" Um, no. It didn't enhance my life in any way! What it did was give me a few years of enjoyment, but that was about all. And, that's a more positive advantage then a lot of deafies had back then with hearing aids and oral only. Therapy; whether it's PT, OT, or, ST, is a drag. Been there, done that. I can completely understand how Shel feels.

The problem isn't being deaf or not having the ability to walk. It's society's viewpoint on the above, which sickens me as much as it does the deafies here.
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I agree!
I find it real strange that they throw crutches at you. They tried to take ASL away because they perceived it as "crutches" and then they slapped hearing aids on us. Now it is CI. They don't even batted their eyes when it was pointed out that hearing aids and CIs are "crutches". Real silly of them!
 
GrendelQ said:
Or let the toolbox be offered without bias, and the decision around which tool or tools to use be based on the individual child's needs, abilities, and available resources.
Click to expand...

That's where the problem lies - Hearing will always be biased towards making a deaf child or person 'hearing'. Deaf will always lean towards something that is the most comfortable for them. Since we are talking about d/Deaf here, shouldn't the bias be turned around as history as showm the 'hearing bias'.

ie: When I was diagnosed, the specialists told my parents that I was HoH and HAs were the 'cure all' - just slap on hearing aids, give her speech therapy, reading remedial classes and she will fit in fine. What they did not tell my parents was that there was sign language, deaf schools, and deaf community. They also did not tell my parents that I was severely-deaf. I found out myself as an adult.

Without bias - that can never be guaranteed to go in the d/Deaf person's favour.
 
BecLak said:
That's where the problem lies - Hearing will always be biased towards making a deaf child or person 'hearing'. Deaf will always lean towards something that is the most comfortable for them. Since we are talking about d/Deaf here, shouldn't the bias be turned around as history as showm the 'hearing bias'.

ie: When I was diagnosed, the specialists told my parents that I was HoH and HAs were the 'cure all' - just slap on hearing aids, give her speech therapy, reading remedial classes and she will fit in fine. What they did not tell my parents was that there was sign language, deaf schools, and deaf community. They also did not tell my parents that I was severely-deaf. I found out myself as an adult.

Without bias - that can never be guaranteed to go in the d/Deaf person's favour.
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Amazing how you know what will "always" be the reasoning or rational behind every parents' decision. Sadly, I am not as all knowing as you and only concerned myself with the decision for one child: my own.

BTW you are not as all knowing as you think you are for you got it wrong in our case. If you think that is no bias in the Deaf advocacy of how to raise deaf children are sadly mistaken, terribly naive or both.
Rick
 
GrendelQ said:
Or let the toolbox be offered without bias, and the decision around which tool or tools to use be based on the individual child's needs, abilities, and available resources.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the luck of the draw. Different areas have different resources and that is what they have to work with.
 
That's where the problem lies - Hearing will always be biased towards making a deaf child or person 'hearing'. Deaf will always lean towards something that is the most comfortable for them. Since we are talking about d/Deaf here, shouldn't the bias be turned around as history as showm the 'hearing bias'.

ie: When I was diagnosed, the specialists told my parents that I was HoH and HAs were the 'cure all' - just slap on hearing aids, give her speech therapy, reading remedial classes and she will fit in fine. What they did not tell my parents was that there was sign language, deaf schools, and deaf community. They also did not tell my parents that I was severely-deaf. I found out myself as an adult.

Without bias - that can never be guaranteed to go in the d/Deaf person's favour.
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I do see where you are coming from It does seem extremely annoying that instead of agitating for a full toolbox, educators and parents are thinking "speech, speech speech will make the child "less handicapped and more "normal" They won't need the "crutch" of ASL! " You look at the sites where parents discuss why they chose a particular approach, and a lot of the oral only parents will say stuff like " he is basicly a hearing kid" :roll: However, I do think that a better idea would be to do a full toolbox approach a la those spoken bilingal programs. I have a friend who is Canadian and attended a bilingal French-English bilingal program. Part of the day was done en francais and another part was in English. Why couldn't we do something like THAT?
I really do think many parents would opt for that sort of approach. I do know that a big reason why a lot of parents chose oral only is b/c they feel like Deaf Ed does not focus enough on spoken English.
 
beclak said:
i think the tables of history should be turned. Let sign/visual language and deaf/bibi schools be recommended for anyone who is deaf or hoh and then speech therapy and oral programs, and aid equipment suggested as secondary options - still offering the 'full toolbox' but just the other way around.
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+1
 
BecLak said:
That's where the problem lies - Hearing will always be biased towards making a deaf child or person 'hearing'. Deaf will always lean towards something that is the most comfortable for them. Since we are talking about d/Deaf here, shouldn't the bias be turned around as history as showm the 'hearing bias'.

ie: When I was diagnosed, the specialists told my parents that I was HoH and HAs were the 'cure all' - just slap on hearing aids, give her speech therapy, reading remedial classes and she will fit in fine. What they did not tell my parents was that there was sign language, deaf schools, and deaf community. They also did not tell my parents that I was severely-deaf. I found out myself as an adult.

Without bias - that can never be guaranteed to go in the d/Deaf person's favour.
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That was what happened in my situation. The doctors told my mom who was 18 and scared at the time that in order to make me normal, I was never to learn sign language. Nice, huh?
 
Exactly! Too many parents buy into the psychological manipuation that a dhh kid who only hears and talks is somehow more "normal" then a kid who has fluent spoken language abilty but also can sign and speechread.
 
deafdyke said:
I do see where you are coming from It does seem extremely annoying that instead of agitating for a full toolbox, educators and parents are thinking "speech, speech speech will make the child "less handicapped and more "normal" They won't need the "crutch" of ASL! " You look at the sites where parents discuss why they chose a particular approach, and a lot of the oral only parents will say stuff like " he is basicly a hearing kid" :roll: However, I do think that a better idea would be to do a full toolbox approach a la those spoken bilingal programs. I have a friend who is Canadian and attended a bilingal French-English bilingal program. Part of the day was done en francais and another part was in English. Why couldn't we do something like THAT?
I really do think many parents would opt for that sort of approach. I do know that a big reason why a lot of parents chose oral only is b/c they feel like Deaf Ed does not focus enough on spoken English.
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Excellent suggestion!....It brings a very balanced approach.
 
BecLak said:
Excellent suggestion!....It brings a very balanced approach.
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It has been happening with where I work at. I brought it up but got blasted for it by some ADers so I dont bother to bring it up anymore. Go figure, heh?
 
rick48 said:
Amazing how you know what will "always" be the reasoning or rational behind every parents' decision. Sadly, I am not as all knowing as you and only concerned myself with the decision for one child: my own.

BTW you are not as all knowing as you think you are for you got it wrong in our case. If you think that is no bias in the Deaf advocacy of how to raise deaf children are sadly mistaken, terribly naive or both.
Rick
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Once again you are not reading me. 1. I never said there wasn't a bias in Deaf advocacy. 2. I never said your decisions for your children are wrong. 3. I have 7 children, varying in ages from young adults, teenagers, preteen and elementary-age - I think I qualify to have the mindset of a parent.
 
BecLak said:
Once again you are not reading me. 1. I never said there wasn't a bias in Deaf advocacy. 2. I never said your decisions for your children are wrong. 3. I have 7 children, varying in ages from young adults, teenagers, preteen and elementary-age - I think I qualify to have the mindset of a parent.
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7 children? WOW!!!!! Kudos to you!
 
shel90 said:
It has been happening with where I work at. I brought it up but got blasted for it by some ADers so I dont bother to bring it up anymore. Go figure, heh?
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That I know, Shel ;) and it should be made common knowledge that this educational option is available, especially for the newbies. I know there are many that know about this already (not mentioning certain names) but there are many who still need to know.
 
BecLak said:
Yes, I may be brave enough to post a picture one day :P If I can figure out how.
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I could post a picture of me smoking a cigar, but keep in mind I take it out of my mouth once in a while. ;)

(With apologies to Groucho Marx for stealing his joke.)
 
It has been happening with where I work at. I brought it up but got blasted for it by some ADers
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:cool2: That is AWESOME!!!!! Yes, Deaf ed is CHANGING!!! It's now gonna be more like Hoh ed....not quite Voice off Deaf, but not quite hearing. It's gonna be that Dhh kids can have equal access to BOTH languages.
If you think that is no bias in the Deaf advocacy of how to raise deaf children are sadly mistaken, terribly naive or both.
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rick, you seem to think a) We are attacking you b/c of the way you raised your daughter. You don't understand at ALL, that your daughter had a very exceptional oral and mainstream experiance. She didn't even have any social problems and wasn't even in the resource room. She just had a minimal accomondations approach! .Do you know how rare that was? Especially since your daughter was FIRST generation CI! Even just hoh kids very often have really bad issues in that area! Yes, oral and mainstream can be a good choice. I have seen some kids do well with minimal accomondations and orally. But I've also seen a lot of other really bad placements or parents automaticly assuming that a mainstream solotaire placement is always the best, since of course Deaf Schools don't churn out kids who attend Name Brand Schools or are like something out of the 1940's. and b) you seem to think that the extreme Deafies who are calling for VO ASL instruction represent the majority. You also seem to think that it's still the early 90's. Anti CI sentiment has really simmered down quite a bit, and Deaf schools and programs have REALLY improved since the old days. I only wish you could see how things have improved! There are kids who were underserved or who didn't aquire oral abilty yes......but there are kids who are VERY smart and very academic, (in those programs) and can really code switch between ASL and speech!
 
faire_jour said:
So it is ok for people to suggest ASL (or demand, or say that oral children suffer or fail) but it is not ok for a deaf person to believe hearing aids are important and suggest them?
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Good point. And that while I won't tell MountainMan he should get a CI for his son, cause that's a personal / family decision. However, I'd know from my own experience that I'd shudder at the thought of not hearing a beep, day in and day out over the course of time. And was glad that my mother made me wear hearing aids when I was kid. That as a 3 year old, I didn't know better, but my mother did.

It's also a question of that the deaf child should at least hopefully get some auditory input. Cause it could make the transition easier somewhere down the road if something were to come along whether it's something scientific, technological or even medical.
 
I think one of the biggest issues that I see here on AD is that deaf people are so tired and worn out from hearing stuff like "I want my child to speak." "I don't want my child to learn sign", etc. This causes sort of an "automated" attack on anyone who even utters the word "speech". However, it seems like people here generally are not opposed to having oral skills, just not at the expense of ASL.

There is one problem. People here can tell you EXACTLY how to gain ASL fluency. Go to a deaf school, parents learn sign, be part of the deaf community, and so on. People can even suggest exact classes! However, when oral skills come up, people keep their mouths shut on how exactly they could develop. I suspect people are afraid of being attacked or they are afraid that if they make a suggestion, parents will take it too seriously and "hyperfocus" on their speech.

Scaredy cats.
 
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