Mental Health Experts have serious lack of ethics:

[Steinhauer]

Just for clarification, medical professionals other than physicians, "MD's", or psychiatrists, can prescribe drugs. PA nurses and independent duty corpsmen can prescribe meds.

Thank you Reba.

Both of my grandparents were RN in VA Hospital mental wards. My grandmother tells me daily about how corrupt this "business" has gotten and how it saddens her heart.

They worked at Bay Pines VA in Florida for the majority of their adult lives. My grandmother is retired and still volunteers.

For clarification, no, I do not have an axe to grind. I see some major ethical violations in the mental health "business" - mentioning it does not make a person a troll.

Why hasn't there been this type of reaction in the post about a deaf group in Georgia suing the State because of the ethical violations in mental health care providers there?

myfoxatlanta.com | Audit: Atlanta Violates Disability Act 071509


The worst violation of all were the state run mental hospitals.

 

[Reba]

PA and ARNP can only prescribe certain medication under a MD or PH. D.

What do you mean by "under?" Can you please elaborate on that?

When my PA writes a prescription for me she fills it out, signs it, and hands it to me. She doesn't check with an MD first.

 

[TXgolfer]

What do you mean by "under?" Can you please elaborate on that?

When my PA writes a prescription for me she fills it out, signs it, and hands it to me. She doesn't check with an MD first.

When my PA writes a script.....the bottle still has the MDs name on it. That might not be everywhere

 

[posts from hell]

Thank you Reba.

Both of my grandparents were RN in VA Hospital mental wards. My grandmother tells me daily about how corrupt this "business" has gotten and how it saddens her heart.

They worked at Bay Pines VA in Florida for the majority of their adult lives. My grandmother is retired and still volunteers.

For clarification, no, I do not have an axe to grind. I see some major ethical violations in the mental health "business" - mentioning it does not make a person a troll.

Why hasn't there been this type of reaction in the post about a deaf group in Georgia suing the State because of the ethical violations in mental health care providers there?

myfoxatlanta.com | Audit: Atlanta Violates Disability Act 071509


The worst violation of all were the state run mental hospitals.

I am not surprised.

 

[jillio]

Primary care doctors are often the first line in mental health provision. They are often the first doctor that a patient with mental health problems visits. After the MD rules out physical reasons for the mental health issues, then the MD makes referrals for the patient to meet with mental health specialists.

Sometimes the mental health issue is resolved at the MD level and never moves on to the psychologist level. Sometimes the MD remains part of the mental health team involved in the patient's care.

As I stated, M.D.s are not mental health care providers. They are a referral source. They do not provide treatment for mental health disorders. Even when they have been responsible for the prescribing of medications, they do not provide mental health treatment. Quite frankly, I don't think that primary care, generalist physicians should be prescribing psychotropics. They are very, very lacking in education regarding mental illness. The vast majority of misdiagnosis comes from the general physician. Patients have been known to go for extended periods of time with a misdiagnosis and the incorrect meds because their general physician was the one doing the diagnosis. This is particularly true for children being diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, and Bi-Polar Disorder. Psychotropics should be prescribed by a psychiatrist who is well educated regarding mental illness and the pharmacological treatment of such.

Mental disorders, even those with a biologic etiology, are never resolved using pharmacological treatment alone. All mental disorders have a behavioral, cognitive, and social component that psychotropics cannot address. The reason for prescribing medications is to stabilize the unstable patient in order that counseling therapy can have an effect.

 

[Tousi]

However -

All quibbles aside -

I do agree to some degree, based on what I have seen, there is some lacking of the ethics and duties of mental health professionals.

Especially when it comes to a deaf patient.

Pisses me off to no end, but.... It is what it is. It's "PRACTICING MEDICINE."

Yeah, I met some really way out there professional ppl like that in my life and I stayed as far away from them as I possibly could. There's a few in every profession, sure. So I don't know what the big deal is if Steinhauser has also run into or read about some, too.

 

[jillio]

Is it possible to debate a topic without making personal attacks on the poster?

You might want to ask that same question of someone other than me.

 

[Reba]

Thank you Reba.

Both of my grandparents were RN in VA Hospital mental wards. My grandmother tells me daily about how corrupt this "business" has gotten and how it saddens her heart.

They worked at Bay Pines VA in Florida for the majority of their adult lives. My grandmother is retired and still volunteers.

For clarification, no, I do not have an axe to grind. I see some major ethical violations in the mental health "business" - mentioning it does not make a person a troll.

Why hasn't there been this type of reaction in the post about a deaf group in Georgia suing the State because of the ethical violations in mental health care providers there?

myfoxatlanta.com | Audit: Atlanta Violates Disability Act 071509

The worst violation of all were the state run mental hospitals.

I think the problem is in making a broad statement title for your thread while providing only one example.

You may have a case about the problem of mental health ethics but you will have provide more examples or use a broader scope showing systemic corruption.

Thread titles can be hot buttons, for sure.

I appreciate your grandparents' service to our veterans. Your grandparents know what it's like to work in the hospital trenches, so to speak.

 

[jillio]

Just for clarification, medical professionals other than physicians, "MD's", or psychiatrists, can prescribe drugs. PA nurses and independent duty corpsmen can prescribe meds.

Just for claification, a psychiatrist is an M.D. with a psychiatric specialty. Physician assistants and nurse practitioners can prescribe only under the supervision of an M.D. with supervisory status.

 

[Reba]

You might want to ask that same question of someone other than me.

Since it was your attack post, I addressed you.

 

[posts from hell]

As I stated, M.D.s are not mental health care providers. They are a referral source. They do not provide treatment for mental health disorders. Even when they have been responsible for the prescribing of medications, they do not provide mental health treatment. Quite frankly, I don't think that primary care, generalist physicians should be prescribing psychotropics. They are very, very lacking in education regarding mental illness. The vast majority of misdiagnosis comes from the general physician. Patients have been known to go for extended periods of time with a misdiagnosis and the incorrect meds because their general physician was the one doing the diagnosis. This is particularly true for children being diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, and Bi-Polar Disorder. Psychotropics should be prescribed by a psychiatrist who is well educated regarding mental illness and the pharmacological treatment of such.

Mental disorders, even those with a biologic etiology, are never resolved using pharmacological treatment alone. All mental disorders have a behavioral, cognitive, and social component that psychotropics cannot address. The reason for prescribing medications is to stabilize the unstable patient in order that counseling therapy can have an effect.

It's quite apparent that you haven't seen what I have seen.

 

[posts from hell]

You might want to ask that same question of someone other than me.

I don't get disgusted often and this post disgusts me.

 

[jillio]

When my PA writes a script.....the bottle still has the MDs name on it. That might not be everywhere

This is true. The prescribing is done under the supervising physician's DEA number.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

It's quite apparent that you haven't seen what I have seen.

Shouldn't treatment of deaf patients be considered separate from this debate?

It's not really new that deaf and blind people get lumped in with bipolars, ADHD, autism spectrum and so on based on their behaviours due to sensory losses.

 

[posts from hell]

I think the problem is in making a broad statement title for your thread while providing only one example.

You may have a case about the problem of mental health ethics but you will have provide more examples or use a broader scope showing systemic corruption.

Thread titles can be hot buttons, for sure.

I appreciate your grandparents' service to our veterans. Your grandparents know what it's like to work in the hospital trenches, so to speak.

One example. I also can attest to the fact I've seen a few of these issues happen right in the front of my eyes, in a few states as well.

I don't think it's a localized issue. That's why I even said something to the tune of "especially with the deaf patients" prior to him posting the last link.

 

[Reba]

Just for claification, a psychiatrist is an M.D. with a psychiatric specialty. Physician assistants and nurse practitioners can prescribe only under the supervision of an M.D. with supervisory status.

I know what a psychiatrist is. When I wrote "MD" I referred to them all, of all specialties.

There may be a supervisory MD somewhere in the picture but the PA writes and signs the prescriptions without consulting with the MD.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, I met some really way out there professional ppl like that in my life and I stayed as far away from them as I possibly could. There's a few in every profession, sure. So I don't know what the big deal is if Steinhauser has also run into or read about some, too.

No one is doubting that there are those out there, or even attempting to deny such. Let's just say there is quite a bit in other threads that you have missed and leave it at that.

 

[jillio]

I know what a psychiatrist is. When I wrote "MD" I referred to them all, of all specialties.

There may be a supervisory MD somewhere in the picture but the PA writes and signs the prescriptions without consulting with the MD.

The PA cannot write and prescribe without being under the supervision of a physician. To do so is illegal, and the supervising physician risks his/her medical license and DEA number if such a thing is discovered. The PA risks loss of license.

 

[Babyblue]

What do you mean by "under?" Can you please elaborate on that?

When my PA writes a prescription for me she fills it out, signs it, and hands it to me. She doesn't check with an MD first.

They can not operate a practice themselves. They are approved by the medical board to write out prescription under the supervision of an MD.

They can not even practice medical care with out supervision of an MD or PHD.

 

[posts from hell]

Shouldn't treatment of deaf patients be considered separate from this debate?

It's not really new that deaf and blind people get lumped in with bipolars, ADHD, autism spectrum and so on based on their behaviours due to sensory losses.

Tough to separate them because they're also lumped into the "system."