Teaching Pre Schoolers ASL

[Daredevel7]

And why are they concerned about speech skills over adequate language exposure? Because they see spoken English as a superior language. Which in turn, makes ASL an inferior language.

I wouldn't say superior, but more like "more accessible" language for United States.

I would say that the piece of puzzle they are missing is that it's not as accessible for deaf people due to lack of auditory input.

Defending ASL as a "just as good language" as English seems to me ineffective for parents of deaf children, because that is not what matters to them.

 

[jillio]

I wouldn't say superior, but more like "more accessible" language for United States.

I would say that the piece of puzzle they are missing is that it's not as accessible for deaf people due to lack of auditory input.

Defending ASL as a "just as good language" as English seems to me ineffective for parents of deaf children, because that is not what matters to them.

Unfortuately, it isn't. Which is a sad commentary in and of itself. Their priorities are often skewed due to their own issues regarding deafness.

 

[Daredevel7]

Unfortuately, it isn't. Which is a sad commentary in and of itself. Their priorities are often skewed due to their own issues regarding deafness.

I would say the biggest issue is that understanding the communication is key regardless of which language. I would think it's pretty obvious that a deaf child of "speaking age" would have a hard time communicating to his mom/dad without a visual form of communication.

Anyway, this is kinda off topic.

So, teaching kids ASL, cool.

 

[Deborah]

But we just had this discussion. This is a forum for the deaf. There are plenty of forums for hearing parents where they can agree with each other.

As a hearing parent of a deaf child, I find this forum VERY helpful. Honestly, there aren't many discussion boards out there FOR us! Think about it--we can talk on and on to other parents about our kids, but if their kids aren't deaf, they really have NO CLUE what we are experiencing! Here, I am looking for a connection with other parents of deaf children--that is very hard to find...believe me, I have been trying for years. Plus, to get info from people who KNOW about things such as deaf schools, hearing aids, life as a deaf child/teenager, etc. I'm just saying that THIS forum has been VERY helpful to ME--as hearing parent of a deaf child. MUCH more so than some of the other parenting boards I have been a part of--if their kids aren't deaf, they have NO IDEA how to relate to me! I mean--if we can't go to a place that is suppose to have lots of info about deaf education, where can we go?

 

[loml]

Yay!!!

Alright, people kept saying "I don't get why hearing parents have no problem teaching hearing kids ASL, but not deaf kids." And I tried to explain their perspective, because it's assumed that parents think ASL is limiting, when it isn't really the case.

Haven't you learned "know your enemy"?

Daredevel7- Are you of the opinion that when hearing parents, who purchase a DVD for "baby sign", are actually teaching their hearing children ASL that is really teaching/learning the language of ASL? These parents are talking and dropping in signs to the spoken English sentence. How does that equate to learning the language of ASL to the extent where the child actually acquires the language in order to have enough proficiency and literacy within the language of ASL?

*shrug*

 

[jillio]

As a hearing parent of a deaf child, I find this forum VERY helpful. Honestly, there aren't many discussion boards out there FOR us! Think about it--we can talk on and on to other parents about our kids, but if their kids aren't deaf, they really have NO CLUE what we are experiencing! Here, I am looking for a connection with other parents of deaf children--that is very hard to find...believe me, I have been trying for years. Plus, to get info from people who KNOW about things such as deaf schools, hearing aids, life as a deaf child/teenager, etc. I'm just saying that THIS forum has been VERY helpful to ME--as hearing parent of a deaf child. MUCH more so than some of the other parenting boards I have been a part of--if their kids aren't deaf, they have NO IDEA how to relate to me! I mean--if we can't go to a place that is suppose to have lots of info about deaf education, where can we go?

I'm glad that you have found this site to be helpful. Personally, I believe that there is a wealth of information around here that is very, very useful to hearing parents.

Unfortuately, there are those hearing parents who visit here, but can't handle the honesty of the replies. But then, they are not so much looking for information that can benefit their child as they are for validation of their choices. Those that are looking for a valuable learning experience generally find one.

 

[jillio]

Daredevel7- Are you of the opinion that when hearing parents, who purchase a DVD for "baby sign", are actually teaching their hearing children ASL that is really teaching/learning the language of ASL? These parents are talking and dropping in signs to the spoken English sentence. How does that equate to learning the language of ASL to the extent where the child actually acquires the language in order to have enough proficiency and literacy within the language of ASL?

*shrug*

Already answered. The same way that you say to a toddler, "See doggie?" instead of "See that black and white spaniel over to your right playing with the green ball?"

 

[Jiro]

now you see why language acquisition does not depend on hearing

 

[Deborah]

I'm glad that you have found this site to be helpful. Personally, I believe that there is a wealth of information around here that is very, very useful to hearing parents.

Unfortuately, there are those hearing parents who visit here, but can't handle the honesty of the replies. But then, they are not so much looking for information that can benefit their child as they are for validation of their choices. Those that are looking for a valuable learning experience generally find one.

Yeah--when my daughter was young I was still very sensitive about everything--we want SO much to make the right choices for our kids. Now that I have some benefit of hindsight, I can see the results of the choices we made early on--some good and some not so good. But for the most part, I DO feel good about the path I put my daughter on--she has turned into quite a remarkable young woman at this point. And now, as she matures and stands up for herself and begins to make her OWN choices about her life, I realize that I should let her "try it her way" and look into things I never thought about before. As long as I can get her where she wants to be in the near future, I think she will take over her own course in life and soar on her own wings. But in those early stages--when we have to make ALL of the choices FOR our kids--it is scary! We want so much to make the RIGHT choices for our kids! And if someone dares question our choices, that makes us feel as if they are questioning our parenting skills--and we become defensive. I may sometimes feel that way, but NOTHING like I did when my daughter was younger. Now, I am almost ready to "pass the baton" to my daughter as she advocates for herself in life--now, it is much less about MY choices for her and much more about HER choices for herself. But I SO remember those feelings of the early days! Actually, a lot of "professionals" seemed hell-bent on "blaming" the parents--if our kids did well, we were praised and commended--if our kids were struggling, we were often blamed. And then the kids mature to a point where how well they do depends a LOT on themselves--the responsibility of achievement begins to rest on THEIR shoulders. I am experiencing that with BOTH of my teenagers right now--in most instances, if they do well it is because they worked hard, and if they don't it is because they did not(of course, there are always some exceptions to that rule). But there DOES seem to be a point where the responsibility passes from parent to child--and the brunt of it begins to rest on the mature child's shoulders instead of on their parent's shoulders. Until then, we are HIGHLY sensitive when it comes to our "babies"--that's for sure!

 

[Daredevel7]

now you see why language acquisition does not depend on hearing

YEA!!! SEE!?!? ..... oh wait.. is that supposed to be for me?

I deserved that...

...if I ACTUALLY said that language acquisition depends on hearing. All I said was that hearing was an extra input.

 

[Jiro]

YEA!!! SEE!?!? ..... oh wait.. is that supposed to be for me?

I deserved that...

...if I ACTUALLY said that language acquisition depends on hearing. All I said was that hearing was an extra input.

that's precisely what I'm talking about. Hearing is hardly a contributing factor. Jillio has repeatedly disproved your assumption (btw - I completely understand from your viewpoint and it is hard to think otherwise).

 

[Daredevel7]

that's precisely what I'm talking about. Hearing is hardly a contributing factor. Jillio has repeatedly disproved your assumption (btw - I completely understand from your viewpoint and it is hard to think otherwise).

What exactly do you think my assumption is? Please state it for me. I wanna make sure we are on the same page.

 

[jillio]

Yeah--when my daughter was young I was still very sensitive about everything--we want SO much to make the right choices for our kids. Now that I have some benefit of hindsight, I can see the results of the choices we made early on--some good and some not so good. But for the most part, I DO feel good about the path I put my daughter on--she has turned into quite a remarkable young woman at this point. And now, as she matures and stands up for herself and begins to make her OWN choices about her life, I realize that I should let her "try it her way" and look into things I never thought about before. As long as I can get her where she wants to be in the near future, I think she will take over her own course in life and soar on her own wings. But in those early stages--when we have to make ALL of the choices FOR our kids--it is scary! We want so much to make the RIGHT choices for our kids! And if someone dares question our choices, that makes us feel as if they are questioning our parenting skills--and we become defensive. I may sometimes feel that way, but NOTHING like I did when my daughter was younger. Now, I am almost ready to "pass the baton" to my daughter as she advocates for herself in life--now, it is much less about MY choices for her and much more about HER choices for herself. But I SO remember those feelings of the early days! Actually, a lot of "professionals" seemed hell-bent on "blaming" the parents--if our kids did well, we were praised and commended--if our kids were struggling, we were often blamed. And then the kids mature to a point where how well they do depends a LOT on themselves--the responsibility of achievement begins to rest on THEIR shoulders. I am experiencing that with BOTH of my teenagers right now--in most instances, if they do well it is because they worked hard, and if they don't it is because they did not(of course, there are always some exceptions to that rule). But there DOES seem to be a point where the responsibility passes from parent to child--and the brunt of it begins to rest on the mature child's shoulders instead of on their parent's shoulders. Until then, we are HIGHLY sensitive when it comes to our "babies"--that's for sure!

Your daughter is indeed fortunate to have such an insightful mother.

 

[Jiro]

What exactly do you think my assumption is? Please state it for me. I wanna make sure we are on the same page.

your assumption: hearing children and deaf children processed reading/writing differently

 

[Bottesini]

As a hearing parent of a deaf child, I find this forum VERY helpful. Honestly, there aren't many discussion boards out there FOR us! Think about it--we can talk on and on to other parents about our kids, but if their kids aren't deaf, they really have NO CLUE what we are experiencing! Here, I am looking for a connection with other parents of deaf children--that is very hard to find...believe me, I have been trying for years. Plus, to get info from people who KNOW about things such as deaf schools, hearing aids, life as a deaf child/teenager, etc. I'm just saying that THIS forum has been VERY helpful to ME--as hearing parent of a deaf child. MUCH more so than some of the other parenting boards I have been a part of--if their kids aren't deaf, they have NO IDEA how to relate to me! I mean--if we can't go to a place that is suppose to have lots of info about deaf education, where can we go?

It's ok with me if you are here. I just get tired of people who get mad if they don't get the answer they are demanding. (usually rudely)

 

[Daredevel7]

your assumption: hearing children and deaf children processed reading/writing differently

reading/speaking.

I now understand LEARNING to read part (cognitively), but I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that everything a hearing person reads was learned by reading ONLY. I'm having a hard time accepting that hearing new words absolutely does not increase your writing language, only your speaking language. But hey, if Jillio says so.....it must be so.....

I say: "Hearing is an input for learning new words."
You (general) interpret it as: "Hearing is needed to learn new words."
Then Im referred to research that proves that hearing is not needed for good literacy rates. WELL DUH. Im not saying you NEED it. There is absolutely nothing that holds a deaf person back from learning new words. I am... just... saying... it... is...an.. INPUT.

 

[jillio]

reading/speaking.

I now understand LEARNING to read part (cognitively), but I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that everything a hearing person reads was learned by reading ONLY. I'm having a hard time accepting that hearing new words absolutely does not increase your writing language, only your speaking language. But hey, if Jillio says so.....it must be so.....
I say: "Hearing is an input for learning new words."
You (general) interpret it as: "Hearing is needed to learn new words."
Then Im referred to research that proves that hearing is not needed for good literacy rates. WELL DUH. Im not saying you NEED it. There is absolutely nothing that holds a deaf person back from learning new words. I am... just... saying... it... is...an.. INPUT.

You don't have to take my word for it. Plenty of textbooks and research out there that will support it.

 

[loml]

I am... just... saying... it... is...an.. INPUT.

Daredevel7 - Hearing can/does affirm what the symbols of the alphabet represent in a word. It is extremely difficult for children to be able to decode a word, even a sight word, if the are unable to break down the sounds that the letters represent. Having the skill on of phoneme manipulation/substitution etc. is am important skill to have, especially when a child is faced with a word that they are unfamiliar with. Throughout the elementary school years vocabulary, and not just social but scholastic vocabulary, becomes more convoluted.

It is important in emerging learners/readers to have a firms grasp on the symbol and the sound, when the approach to language contains the component of sounds. Understand tha this sounds does not have to be processed solely or at all through auditory means.

 

[Daredevel7]

You don't have to take my word for it. Plenty of textbooks and research out there that will support it.

Oh? There's research and textbooks out there that will support the fact that people learn to read only by reading and not by hearing at all? How did they do this? Oh yes literacy rates between hearing and deaf..... like I said, there is nothing that holds back the deaf from learning any words. In fact, the deaf kids are probably encouraged to read more than the hearing kids, because for hearing kids, language acquisition is taken for granted.

I would check for literacy rates for a spoken language with the equivalent phonetic language vs a spoken language that has a symbolic language (Mandarin/Chinese). That would be interesting.... but it seems to have other factors to consider (poor education, what is considered "literate", etc). Any insights on this, Jillio?

 

[jillio]

Daredevel7 - Hearing can/does affirm what the symbols of the alphabet represent in a word. It is extremely difficult for children to be able to decode a word, even a sight word, if the are unable to break down the sounds that the letters represent. Having the skill on of phoneme manipulation/substitution etc. is am important skill to have, especially when a child is faced with a word that they are unfamiliar with. Throughout the elementary school years vocabulary, and not just social but scholastic vocabulary, becomes more convoluted.

It is important in emerging learners/readers to have a firms grasp on the symbol and the sound, when the approach to language contains the component of sounds. Understand tha this sounds does not have to be processed solely or at all through auditory means.

This is totally and completely innacurrate. Please cite valid and reliable sources if you are going to spread such misinformation. This is no more than a sales pitch intended to prey on hearing parents of newly diagnosed deaf children by a promoter from the NCSA that has an ulterior motive in doing so.