Pro-choice and death).....(only pro-choice and death comment) - Page 2

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Where did you see where I said that pro-lifers did not support women's health issues?

Quote:

Personly, I'm pro-life for myself, but prochoice for everyone else.
I would never have an abortion, but I'm not gonna stand in line and scream that someone else shouldn't have one.
I do think that we could reduce the abortion problem by: forcing insurance companies to cover GOOD quality effective birth control, making the morning after pill over the counter, promoting good healthy relationship training (like a lot of girls seem to be very brainless when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a Teen People mag where a girl said that she had sex with someone, b/c she was afraid that if she didn't boys wouldn't like her any more) I also think that parents of potential special needs kids really need to be counseled. Most info out there on the various and sundry disabilites is so out of date, its not even funny!
I'm against the death penalty in most cases, but I do think that there ARE some cases where the death penalty is justified. There are people out there who are just PURE evil, and who will never ever be rehabilitated.
I also think that some people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL abortion is evil. What about if the mom has an etopic pregnancy? (a condition where the sperm fertilizes the egg in the fallopian tube. This is a condition, that if not treated KILLS) What about if a baby's died in utereo?
What if it has a 100% fatal condition? (like anacephely)

Quote:

That would make you pro-choice. You have chosen a pro-life position for yourself, and support that every other individual has the right to make that same choice for themselves. That's what people don't seem to understand. Being pro-choice does not necessarily mean that your personal moral values would allow you to ever have an abortion, but that you understand that it is everyone's right to choose what they can and cannot accept for themselves on this issue, and you have no right to impose your moral values or your religious views regarding abortion on others. - Jillio

What I see, you told him that he is pro-choice because of his opinion. Well, take a look here. There are a lot of good points.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

What I see, you told him that he is pro-choice because of his opinion. Well, take a look here. There are a lot of good points.

That website has absolutely nothing to do with my post. And I said that dd was pro-choice because she makes the choice not to have an abortion for herself, but she also support everyother woman's choice to make that decision for herself. She is not trying to take anyone's choice away. That is the very definition of pro-choice.

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I did not say that it was "just" a fetus, I said it was called a fetus. And a fetus cannot be aborted, and if someone kills a pregant woman while she in pregnant and in the fetal stage, the criminal will be charged with the death of the fetus, as well.

I said it could not be called a baby until it was born, under the legal definition of viability, the medical definition of viability, and the scientific definition of viability. Of course it exists. It exists as a fetus.

At other points of gestation it is also called a blstocyst, and an embyo. Neither of which are viable.

Hmm... I see.
Okay, a fetus is existed by then. Let me ask you, what is a fetus derevse (sp) for? I wonder?

jillio · 04-22-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

Hmm... I see.
Okay, a fetus is existed by then. Let me ask you, what is a fetus derevse (sp) for? I wonder?

I'm sorry. I don't understand your question. Could you explain for me, please?

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That website has absolutely nothing to do with my post. And I said that dd was pro-choice because she makes the choice not to have an abortion for herself, but she also support everyother woman's choice to make that decision for herself. She is not trying to take anyone's choice away. That is the very definition of pro-choice.

Okay, fine by then. I only showed you some reasons, that's all.

I seriously think you should not call her a pro-choice while she believed in abortions is wrong except women's risk health. That's not means she is less pro-lifer. Just thought.

KarissaMann05 · 04-22-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I'm sorry. I don't understand your question. Could you explain for me, please?

It's okay, I suck at grammar. Aha

EDIT: What fetus deserves for?

jillio · 04-22-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

It's okay, I suck at grammar. Aha

EDIT: What fetus deserves for?

Under the law, a fetus has the same rights as an infant. That is why a person can be prosecuted for murder if they kill a fetus. But abortions are not done at the fetal stage, either. If a fetus dies in the womb at this stage, labor is induced and it is called a "still birth." If the woman goes into labor at this stage, it is called a premature birth.

Cheri · 04-22-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Babies are protected. If one kills a baby, one suffers the penalty. Under the law, it is not a baby until it is born

I respectfully disagree, human life begins in the womb, not after birth, a heart beat is a breathing life. Why should a unborn baby have to die because of someone's mistake? It's still killing an innocent human life.

jillio · 04-22-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I respectfully disagree, human life begins in the womb, not after birth, a heart beat is a breathing life. Why should a unborn baby have to die because of someone's mistake? It's still killing an innocent human life.

And, you are entitle to hold that view for yourself, and make your personal choices based on th belief you hold. But, if you want to be allowed to make that choice for yoruself, then you must allow others the right to make their choices for themselves, whether they are the same choices you make or not.

Liebling:-))) · 04-23-2008, 10:46 AM

Pro-lifer support abortion to be illegal.
Pro-lifer support fetus´s right/life before mother´s life and risk health.

Pro-choicer support abortion to be legal.
Pro-choicer support mother´s choice and respect mother´s wish for save her risk life before fetus´s life.

I asked a Pro lifer ADer at other thread either he consider abortion as murder if mother decide to abort fetus to save her risk life or not? He answered: He also consider it as murder as well if mother put her risk life first before fetus life. He explains that surgery can SAVE mother´s risk life... *sigh* Okkkkaayyy... I respect his view and told him that he is a true pro-lifer. If anyone who consider mother´s risk life first before fetus´s life then is pro-choice.

jillio · 04-23-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Pro-lifer support abortion to be illegal.
Pro-lifer support fetus´s right/life before mother´s life and risk health.

Pro-choicer support abortion to be legal.
Pro-choicer support mother´s choice and respect mother´s wish for save her risk life before fetus´s life.

I asked a Pro lifer ADer at other thread either he consider abortion as murder if mother decide to abort fetus to save her risk life or not? He answered: He also consider it as murder as well if mother put her risk life first before fetus life. He explains that surgery can SAVE mother´s risk life... *sigh* Okkkkaayyy... I respect his view and told him that he is a true pro-lifer. If anyone who consider mother´s risk life first before fetus´s life then is pro-choice.

My main point is that pro-choicers do not seek to force anyone to anything. They do not force a woman to have an abortion, nor dothey seek to take away the rights of those that have moral and religious objections to abortions to believe the way they do. If you don't agree with abortion, for what ever reasons, that's fine. You are free to make the choices that you find acceptable.

The pro-lifers, however, attempt to force all women to carry all pregnancies to term, and to take away that woman's right to choose for herself what her moral and religious beliefs regarding abortion are. They want the freedom not to choose abortion, yet the want to deny the same freedom of choice to others. In short, they want to force everyone to think and belive and feel exactly the same way they do. I find that to be terribly self-righteous.

Liebling:-))) · 04-23-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Personly, I'm pro-life for myself, but prochoice for everyone else.
I would never have an abortion, but I'm not gonna stand in line and scream that someone else shouldn't have one.
I do think that we could reduce the abortion problem by: forcing insurance companies to cover GOOD quality effective birth control, making the morning after pill over the counter, promoting good healthy relationship training (like a lot of girls seem to be very brainless when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a Teen People mag where a girl said that she had sex with someone, b/c she was afraid that if she didn't boys wouldn't like her any more) I also think that parents of potential special needs kids really need to be counseled. Most info out there on the various and sundry disabilites is so out of date, its not even funny!
I'm against the death penalty in most cases, but I do think that there ARE some cases where the death penalty is justified. There are people out there who are just PURE evil, and who will never ever be rehabilitated.
I also think that some people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL abortion is evil. What about if the mom has an etopic pregnancy? (a condition where the sperm fertilizes the egg in the fallopian tube. This is a condition, that if not treated KILLS) What about if a baby's died in utereo?
What if it has a 100% fatal condition? (like anacephely)

Yes I personally would never abort for no reasons but I consider myself as a pro-choice because I respect women´s choice for reasons like what you stated here. As what you said which mean is you are pro-choice because you show your respect on everyone´s choice.

Liebling:-))) · 04-23-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

My main point is that pro-choicers do not seek to force anyone to anything. They do not force a woman to have an abortion, nor dothey seek to take away the rights of those that have moral and religious objections to abortions to believe the way they do. If you don't agree with abortion, for what ever reasons, that's fine. You are free to make the choices that you find acceptable.

The pro-lifers, however, attempt to force all women to carry all pregnancies to term, and to take away that woman's right to choose for herself what her moral and religious beliefs regarding abortion are. They want the freedom not to choose abortion, yet the want to deny the same freedom of choice to others. In short, they want to force everyone to think and belive and feel exactly the same way they do. I find that to be terribly self-righteous.

Yes, Nobody should judge everyone´s choice because it´s them who knows their own feeling, not us.

Liebling:-))) · 04-23-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That website has absolutely nothing to do with my post. And I said that dd was pro-choice because she makes the choice not to have an abortion for herself, but she also support everyother woman's choice to make that decision for herself. She is not trying to take anyone's choice away. That is the very definition of pro-choice.

Exactly

Cheri · 04-23-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The pro-lifers, however, attempt to force all women to carry all pregnancies to term, and to take away that woman's right to choose for herself what her moral and religious beliefs regarding abortion are. They want the freedom not to choose abortion, yet the want to deny the same freedom of choice to others. In short, they want to force everyone to think and belive and feel exactly the same way they do. I find that to be terribly self-righteous.

How does pro-lifers force women to carry their pregnancy to full terms? Do they held a gun to their head? Do they tied a pregnant woman to a bed? No. We do not "force" anyone to carry their pregnancy to full terms, we give them our reasons. Having sex is not a right, it is a privilege. If a woman had sex, it's her own mistake for allowing herself be available to get pregnant. If a woman can't hold off on sex and she get pregnant then she have to live with her mistakes, and there shouldn't be any way out of it, that's what happens when a woman lay her life down to have sex when she knows she might get pregnant, it's not 100 percent prevented, even if she's on any form of birth control. Why should the unborn baby pay the penalty of being killed when a mistake is at the fault of the mother and person she slept with?

owen06 · 04-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

How does pro-lifers force women to carry their pregnancy to full terms? Do they held a gun to their head? Do they tied a pregnant woman to a bed? No. We do not "force" anyone to carry their pregnancy to full terms, we give them our reasons. Having sex is not a right, it is a privilege. If a woman had sex, it's her own mistake for allowing herself be available to get pregnant. If a woman can't hold off on sex and she get pregnant then she have to live with her mistakes, and there shouldn't be any way out of it, that's what happens when a woman lay her life down to have sex when she knows she might get pregnant, it's not 100 percent prevented, even if she's on any form of birth control. Why should the unborn baby pay the penalty of being killed when a mistake is at the fault of the mother and person she slept with?

Ok, let's say that theoretically the woman is unable to have an abortion. If she does not want the baby chances are she will either try and get an illegal abortion OR will not take care of herself during the pregnancy. Yes it is her "fault" for getting pregnant but are the pro-life people going to hang around and make sure all those unwilling pregnant women take care of themselves? Refrain from drinking, smoking, drugs, going to regular doctors appointments etc. Why should a child pay the price of the mother not wanting it? It is a bigger drain on everyone's resources to provide for a child with major problems than it is to allow women the choice to abort. Do I think that it should be used as a form of birth control? No. But I do believe that it should be an option, without it as an option there are going to be way more issues.

jillio · 04-23-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

How does pro-lifers force women to carry their pregnancy to full terms? Do they held a gun to their head? Do they tied a pregnant woman to a bed? No. We do not "force" anyone to carry their pregnancy to full terms, we give them our reasons. Having sex is not a right, it is a privilege. If a woman had sex, it's her own mistake for allowing herself be available to get pregnant. If a woman can't hold off on sex and she get pregnant then she have to live with her mistakes, and there shouldn't be any way out of it, that's what happens when a woman lay her life down to have sex when she knows she might get pregnant, it's not 100 percent prevented, even if she's on any form of birth control. Why should the unborn baby pay the penalty of being killed when a mistake is at the fault of the mother and person she slept with?

By campaigning to have Roe v Wade overturned and elective abortion made illegal. It removes choice. By picketing outside of abortion clinics and accosting pregnant women on their way in. By trying to dictate the morals and values that every one "should" live by. By accusing women who exercise their right to an elective abortion in the first trimester of preganancy of being murderers. By passing judgement on the character of women who make decisions different from your own beliefs.

And inconvenient pregnancy is not the most frequent reason a woman seeks an abortion. Women seek abortions for any number of reasons, and those reasons are known only to them.

If you seek to make abortions unavailable, you seek to force others into your choices.

But I will ask you the same question. How do pro-choicers force anything on you? Do they force you to have an abortion? Dothey force you to believe the same as they believe. Or do they allow you the freedom to make the choices for yourself, and to live your life according to your own personal values?

deafdyke · 04-23-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

But abortions are not done at the fetal stage, either. If a fetus dies in the womb at this stage, labor is induced and it is called a "still birth.

That''s right.....Most abortions are done VERY early.....As a matter of fact, most abortions are done so early, that there isn't time for a birth defect that might cause miscarriage to kick in.

KarissaMann05 · 04-24-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Under the law, a fetus has the same rights as an infant. That is why a person can be prosecuted for murder if they kill a fetus. But abortions are not done at the fetal stage, either. If a fetus dies in the womb at this stage, labor is induced and it is called a "still birth." If the woman goes into labor at this stage, it is called a premature birth.

Thanks for answering

PowerON · 05-14-2008, 11:59 AM

fetus.. that's tough life for mother to decide to go away or keep.

Jiro · 05-15-2008, 03:39 AM

I am PRO-CHOICE. It is NOBODY's business about what women want with their bodies. If she wishes to terminate her pregnancy, then so be it. Just as much as you're free to abuse your own body with any addiction. However, I believe there should be a law regarding abortion on time frame. For ie - abortion should not be performed past second trimester. It is cruel and dangerous unless women's health is at risk of death if baby was to be born or delivered to full term.

death penalty - I support it for only very heinous crimes and/or if the criminal was judged as extremely dangerous to society.

assisted suicide - I support it

jillio · 05-15-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

I am PRO-CHOICE. It is NOBODY's business about what women want with their bodies. If she wishes to terminate her pregnancy, then so be it. Just as much as you're free to abuse your own body with any addiction. However, I believe there should be a law regarding abortion on time frame. For ie - abortion should not be performed past second trimester. It is cruel and dangerous unless women's health is at risk of death if baby was to be born or delivered to full term.

death penalty - I support it for only very heinous crimes and/or if the criminal was judged as extremely dangerous to society.

assisted suicide - I support it

There is a time limit for elective abortions. They are not performed past the end of the first trimester. Therapeutic abortions into the 16th week of gestation are performed only if the mother's life is in danger.

Cheri · 05-15-2008, 08:40 AM

jiro123--
Trust me, some abortionist if not most are lawbreakers. I've live to witness it. It's all about money to them, they don't care about you, or the fetus.

jillio · 05-15-2008, 08:42 AM

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04-23-2008, 10:46 AM	#40 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 25,702	Pro-lifer support abortion to be illegal. Pro-lifer support fetus´s right/life before mother´s life and risk health. Pro-choicer support abortion to be legal. Pro-choicer support mother´s choice and respect mother´s wish for save her risk life before fetus´s life. I asked a Pro lifer ADer at other thread either he consider abortion as murder if mother decide to abort fetus to save her risk life or not? He answered: He also consider it as murder as well if mother put her risk life first before fetus life. He explains that surgery can SAVE mother´s risk life... sigh Okkkkaayyy... I respect his view and told him that he is a true pro-lifer. If anyone who consider mother´s risk life first before fetus´s life then is pro-choice. __________________ sniffing you

05-14-2008, 11:59 AM	#50 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,275 Blog Entries: 1	fetus.. that's tough life for mother to decide to go away or keep. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

05-15-2008, 08:40 AM	#53 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 20,755	jiro123-- Trust me, some abortionist if not most are lawbreakers. I've live to witness it. It's all about money to them, they don't care about you, or the fetus. __________________

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05-15-2008, 03:39 AM	#51 (permalink)
Jiro YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 4,845	I am PRO-CHOICE. It is NOBODY's business about what women want with their bodies. If she wishes to terminate her pregnancy, then so be it. Just as much as you're free to abuse your own body with any addiction. However, I believe there should be a law regarding abortion on time frame. For ie - abortion should not be performed past second trimester. It is cruel and dangerous unless women's health is at risk of death if baby was to be born or delivered to full term. death penalty - I support it for only very heinous crimes and/or if the criminal was judged as extremely dangerous to society. assisted suicide - I support it

05-15-2008, 08:42 AM	#54 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,449	Quote: