Abortion

JOEBIALEK · 01-30-2008, 10:15 PM

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

Schermy · 01-31-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOEBIALEK

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

Sorry but I think that no one has the right to tell another person what they can and can not do with their body. I am Pro Choice!!! I hardly believe that the abortion issue is what is going to cause our country to self destruct when there are far grater issues going on.

jillio · 01-31-2008, 07:44 PM

When life begins is a point that differs depending upon whether you look at it from a scientific perspective, a legal perspective, or a spiritual perspective. There is also the concept of viability that goes into the legal decisions regarding this matter.

The Consitution was not designed to cover embryos. In this country, children who are already born are afforded very few legal rights, as they are considered dependents. Do you propose that we provide greater civil rights to an embryo than to a child that has already been born?

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that abortion is used primarily as a form of birth control? I would very much like to see that evidence.

Regarding you reference to "nine months of discomfort"...how many pregnancies have you experienced? Regarding adoption...that, too is a choice that can be made, but it is a choice that one has the freedom to make as well. No one forces a consenting adult to have an abortion. A woman is free to choose adoption if she wishes. And, she can choose adoption without consulting the father of the child, the same as she can choose abortion without consulting the father.

While your argument cerrtainly appeals to the emotions, it is hardly logical and well thought out. A woman who has a medically supervised abortion is not guilty of manslaughter, nor would she be guilty of manslaughter if abortion were illegal. Once again,the concept of viability comes into play in the legal realm, and the child would have to be born, have survived the birth, and drawn its first breath before a charge of manslaughter could be levied against her. At the very worst, the child would have to have been well into the 3rd trimester of gestation and capable of surviving on its own before one could even consider charges of manslaughter. Since abortions are not performed, unless the mother's life can be proven to be at stake, past the 12th week of gestation, your point is moot. Even therapuetic abortions performed after the 12th week are prior to viability. There is no such thing as a 3rd trimester abortion. At that point it is considered to be induced labor.

Would you prefer that we have more babies born and thrown in trash cans shortly after their birth to suffocate or starve to death? Or would you prefer that women go back to illegal abortionists who don't even have a medical license? What about women who loose their lives under such conditions? Their lives are protected under the consitution. Are their lives not just as valuable as the potential life of an embryo?

The fact of the matter is, a woman who chooses not to carry a pregnancy to term will find a way to act on her choice. The question is not whether women will abort pregancies, as they have done so prior to Roe vs. Wade, and will continue to do so. The question is whether they are provided a safe medical environment in which to do so.

Unless you are willing to financially, emotionally, and physically care for all the children that would otherwise be aborted, you have no right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own bodies. If you disagree with abortion, then don't have one. That is your choice to make. But you have no right to force your beliefs on anyone else, and that is a right afforded under the Constitution that you tried to invoke.

If you are truly so concerned about the fate of children, there are several organiztions designed to serve abused children that would appreciate your time.

jazzy · 01-31-2008, 10:20 PM

Read somewhere, in Brazil where abortion is forbid there. Past couple of months few women had died from being pregnant because of health hazard for them to carry unborn fetus. Doctors refused to perform emergency abort because they were afraid of the law so those women died and leave their families behind. I think this is more cruel for any of us to control women's body and kill them.

GarnetTigerMom · 01-31-2008, 10:50 PM

A woman got a right to do with her body if she want an abortion or not. It entirely up to her what she does with her body. I am sure there lot of reasons why abortions is there for a reasons.

Hwy99 · 02-01-2008, 03:12 AM

I do not support abortion, except for those mothers who could have risked their life by being pregnanted, or miscarriage. But I do respect other mother's decision, how patheic is that.. *sigh*

jillio · 02-01-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

I do not support abortion, except for those mothers who could have risked their life by being pregnanted, or miscarriage. But I do respect other mother's decision, how patheic is that.. *sigh*

Respecting the mother's choice means that even though you do not agree with abortion, you are not so arrogant as to believe that you can impose your values on anyone else. That is a good thing.

Hwy99 · 02-01-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Respecting the mother's choice means that even though you do not agree with abortion, you are not so arrogant as to believe that you can impose your values on anyone else. That is a good thing.

for making me feel better

jillio · 02-01-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

for making me feel better

YW!

Schermy · 02-01-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Respecting the mother's choice means that even though you do not agree with abortion, you are not so arrogant as to believe that you can impose your values on anyone else. That is a good thing.

Amen to that!!!!

**KarissaMann05** · 02-01-2008, 12:38 PM

I understand your point, but it's each personal choice for any woman/girl.

I dont really like idea of abortion subject.. Still, it's her choice for all matters.

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Respecting the mother's choice means that even though you do not agree with abortion, you are not so arrogant as to believe that you can impose your values on anyone else. That is a good thing.

So, if she is a "mother" then it is her "baby" inside of her, right? One can't be a "mother" to a collection of cells.

**KarissaMann05** · 02-01-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Respecting the mother's choice means that even though you do not agree with abortion, you are not so arrogant as to believe that you can impose your values on anyone else. That is a good thing.

Amen!!

I got a story from some girls I know.

She was very excited to have a baby, four months later, her belly had stopped the growing but she did not realize until about 6 months at pregnancy. She suspected something was wrong with her baby. She could feel minor pain, sick easily, and to feel a bit of burn in her stomach.. so she went for her doctor appointment. She found out that her baby was already died at four months old of pragnancy but her uetus (sp) did not release the dead baby. She have to abort her child, sadly, she was very heartbroken.. So she have an abortion.. I dont know how it happen to her baby because i dont remmy.

Gee, I felt so bad for her.

See, it's personal choice for some good reasons...

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schermy

Sorry but I think that no one has the right to tell another person what they can and can not do with their body. I am Pro Choice!!! I hardly believe that the abortion issue is what is going to cause our country to self destruct when there are far grater issues going on.

But isn't that what's happening? Isn't another person telling the baby what he or she can and cannot do with his or her body? The baby isn't allowed to decide for life or death, so why should someone else decide that for him or her? Where's the baby's choice?

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

Amen!!

I got a story from some girls I know.

She was very excited to have a baby, four months later, her belly had stopped the growing but she did not realize until about 6 months at pregnancy. She suspected something was wrong with her baby. She could feel minor pain, sick easily, and to feel a bit of burn in her stomach.. so she went for her doctor appointment. She found out that her baby was already died at four months old of pragnancy but her uetus (sp) did not release the dead baby. She have to abort her child, sadly, she was very heartbroken.. So she have an abortion.. I dont know how it happen to her baby because i dont remmy.

Gee, I felt so bad for her.

She didn't abort a living baby. The baby was already dead. Removing the body of a dead baby is NOT the same as killing the baby and then removing it. She didn't kill her baby; the baby had already died.

Do you notice that it was a baby and child that died, not a clump of cells.

Schermy · 02-01-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

But isn't that what's happening? Isn't another person telling the baby what he or she can and cannot do with his or her body? The baby isn't allowed to decide for life or death, so why should someone else decide that for him or her? Where's the baby's choice?

I'm sorry but untill it's out of the womb and cut from the cord it's not a baby with choices. NO ONE should have the rigt to tell another person if they can or can not abort a pregnancy. It's not your right to do so. Period and end of story.

**Foxrac** · 02-01-2008, 01:01 PM

I'm pro-choice, it's woman's choice to keep or abort the newborn.

jillio · 02-01-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

So, if she is a "mother" then it is her "baby" inside of her, right? One can't be a "mother" to a collection of cells.

If everyone else can use "baby" when they really mean "embryo", then it is appropriate for me to use "mother" as a designation for "woman". We refer to pregant women as "the little mother" (very patronizing!) all the time. Yet, in reality, they are mothers-to-be.

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schermy

... Period and end of story.

I'm glad to see that you have a mind open to debate.

jillio · 02-01-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

But isn't that what's happening? Isn't another person telling the baby what he or she can and cannot do with his or her body? The baby isn't allowed to decide for life or death, so why should someone else decide that for him or her? Where's the baby's choice?

Nor are children who are already born allowed to decide because they are considered to be dependents. Do you propose that we give greater rights to a nonviable embryo than we give to children that are living and surviving outside the womb?

jillio · 02-01-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

She didn't abort a living baby. The baby was already dead. Removing the body of a dead baby is NOT the same as killing the baby and then removing it. She didn't kill her baby; the baby had already died.

Do you notice that it was a baby and child that died, not a clump of cells.

At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

If everyone else can use "baby" when they really mean "embryo", then it is appropriate for me to use "mother" as a designation for "woman". We refer to pregant women as "the little mother" (very patronizing!) all the time. Yet, in reality, they are mothers-to-be.

"Mother" is not a synonym for "woman". Not all women are mothers.

If you truly believe that it's morally right for mothers to allow abortionists to kill their babies, why are you afraid to come out and say it? Why the semantic dance around?

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.

In the story, the mother herself referred to it as her baby and child, as expressed her grief over its loss.

How would you comfort her? "So sorry that you lost a fetus"?

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Nor are children who are already born allowed to decide because they are considered to be dependents. Do you propose that we give greater rights to a nonviable embryo than we give to children that are living and surviving outside the womb?

Not more, just the same. Do we let mothers give permission to kill their newborn babies? Or do we protect the newborns' rights?

SxyPorkie · 02-01-2008, 01:24 PM

There are Pros and Cons of abortions.... long time ago my best friend got pregnant... was thinking about having abortion... I talked her out of it.... then she had a baby....

Three yrs later.. i saw her abusing her daughter.... I regretted that i talked her out of abortion...

**KarissaMann05** · 02-01-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.

I dont know why you claim it when I had seen some premature babies several times, they were human being..

Reba, yes, you are right. It's obviously not kill her son but she had to abort for her own health safe..

Schermy · 02-01-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm glad to see that you have a mind open to debate.

Becasue I don't believe there should even be a debate if a person has the right to tell another person what to do with their body. I'm sorry that we will not agree on that but I'm not sorry as to what my stance is on this subject.

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SxyPorkie

There are Pros and Cons of abortions.... long time ago my best friend got pregnant... was thinking about having abortion... I talked her out of it.... then she had a baby....

Three yrs later.. i saw her abusing her daughter.... I regretted that i talked her out of abortion...

It's not your fault. She should get help for the abuse or give her daughter to someone who can take care of her.

No one can see the future.

**Reba** · 02-01-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schermy

Becasue I don't believe there should even be a debate if a person has the right to tell another person what to do with their body. I'm sorry that we will not agree on that but I'm not sorry as to what my stance is on this subject.

If there shouldn't be a debate then I guess there's no point in this forum, especially under "On-topic Debates".

Hwy99 · 02-01-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mann_K05

Amen!!

I got a story from some girls I know.

She was very excited to have a baby, four months later, her belly had stopped the growing but she did not realize until about 6 months at pregnancy. She suspected something was wrong with her baby. She could feel minor pain, sick easily, and to feel a bit of burn in her stomach.. so she went for her doctor appointment. She found out that her baby was already died at four months old of pragnancy but her uetus (sp) did not release the dead baby. She have to abort her child, sadly, she was very heartbroken.. So she have an abortion.. I dont know how it happen to her baby because i dont remmy.

Gee, I felt so bad for her.

See, it's personal choice for some good reasons...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

She didn't abort a living baby. The baby was already dead. Removing the body of a dead baby is NOT the same as killing the baby and then removing it. She didn't kill her baby; the baby had already died.

Do you notice that it was a baby and child that died, not a clump of cells.

FYI, those are miscarriage...

01-30-2008, 10:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
JOEBIALEK Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 39	Abortion On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion. Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

01-31-2008, 10:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: High desert in Calif Posts: 4,208	Read somewhere, in Brazil where abortion is forbid there. Past couple of months few women had died from being pregnant because of health hazard for them to carry unborn fetus. Doctors refused to perform emergency abort because they were afraid of the law so those women died and leave their families behind. I think this is more cruel for any of us to control women's body and kill them. __________________

01-31-2008, 10:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,958	A woman got a right to do with her body if she want an abortion or not. It entirely up to her what she does with her body. I am sure there lot of reasons why abortions is there for a reasons. __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

02-01-2008, 12:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
KarissaMann05 Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 6,381	I understand your point, but it's each personal choice for any woman/girl. I dont really like idea of abortion subject.. Still, it's her choice for all matters. __________________ "Pragmatic language is a vital social skill that enables the school-aged child to navigate their way through demanding social situations." -- R. Owens

02-01-2008, 01:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,619	I'm pro-choice, it's woman's choice to keep or abort the newborn. __________________ In Moto We Trust

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01-31-2008, 07:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	When life begins is a point that differs depending upon whether you look at it from a scientific perspective, a legal perspective, or a spiritual perspective. There is also the concept of viability that goes into the legal decisions regarding this matter. The Consitution was not designed to cover embryos. In this country, children who are already born are afforded very few legal rights, as they are considered dependents. Do you propose that we provide greater civil rights to an embryo than to a child that has already been born? Do you have any evidence to support your claim that abortion is used primarily as a form of birth control? I would very much like to see that evidence. Regarding you reference to "nine months of discomfort"...how many pregnancies have you experienced? Regarding adoption...that, too is a choice that can be made, but it is a choice that one has the freedom to make as well. No one forces a consenting adult to have an abortion. A woman is free to choose adoption if she wishes. And, she can choose adoption without consulting the father of the child, the same as she can choose abortion without consulting the father. While your argument cerrtainly appeals to the emotions, it is hardly logical and well thought out. A woman who has a medically supervised abortion is not guilty of manslaughter, nor would she be guilty of manslaughter if abortion were illegal. Once again,the concept of viability comes into play in the legal realm, and the child would have to be born, have survived the birth, and drawn its first breath before a charge of manslaughter could be levied against her. At the very worst, the child would have to have been well into the 3rd trimester of gestation and capable of surviving on its own before one could even consider charges of manslaughter. Since abortions are not performed, unless the mother's life can be proven to be at stake, past the 12th week of gestation, your point is moot. Even therapuetic abortions performed after the 12th week are prior to viability. There is no such thing as a 3rd trimester abortion. At that point it is considered to be induced labor. Would you prefer that we have more babies born and thrown in trash cans shortly after their birth to suffocate or starve to death? Or would you prefer that women go back to illegal abortionists who don't even have a medical license? What about women who loose their lives under such conditions? Their lives are protected under the consitution. Are their lives not just as valuable as the potential life of an embryo? The fact of the matter is, a woman who chooses not to carry a pregnancy to term will find a way to act on her choice. The question is not whether women will abort pregancies, as they have done so prior to Roe vs. Wade, and will continue to do so. The question is whether they are provided a safe medical environment in which to do so. Unless you are willing to financially, emotionally, and physically care for all the children that would otherwise be aborted, you have no right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own bodies. If you disagree with abortion, then don't have one. That is your choice to make. But you have no right to force your beliefs on anyone else, and that is a right afforded under the Constitution that you tried to invoke. If you are truly so concerned about the fate of children, there are several organiztions designed to serve abused children that would appreciate your time.

02-01-2008, 03:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hwy99 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: A town in middle of the rolling hills Posts: 6,141	I do not support abortion, except for those mothers who could have risked their life by being pregnanted, or miscarriage. But I do respect other mother's decision, how patheic is that.. sigh

02-01-2008, 01:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
SxyPorkie Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,095	There are Pros and Cons of abortions.... long time ago my best friend got pregnant... was thinking about having abortion... I talked her out of it.... then she had a baby.... Three yrs later.. i saw her abusing her daughter.... I regretted that i talked her out of abortion... __________________ Life Goes On!!

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