Abortion

Reba said:
She didn't abort a living baby. The baby was already dead. Removing the body of a dead baby is NOT the same as killing the baby and then removing it. She didn't kill her baby; the baby had already died.

Do you notice that it was a baby and child that died, not a clump of cells.
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At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.
 
jillio said:
If everyone else can use "baby" when they really mean "embryo", then it is appropriate for me to use "mother" as a designation for "woman". We refer to pregant women as "the little mother" (very patronizing!) all the time. Yet, in reality, they are mothers-to-be.
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"Mother" is not a synonym for "woman". Not all women are mothers.

If you truly believe that it's morally right for mothers to allow abortionists to kill their babies, why are you afraid to come out and say it? Why the semantic dance around?
 
jillio said:
At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.
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In the story, the mother herself referred to it as her baby and child, as expressed her grief over its loss.

How would you comfort her? "So sorry that you lost a fetus"?
 
jillio said:
Nor are children who are already born allowed to decide because they are considered to be dependents. Do you propose that we give greater rights to a nonviable embryo than we give to children that are living and surviving outside the womb?
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Not more, just the same. Do we let mothers give permission to kill their newborn babies? Or do we protect the newborns' rights?
 
There are Pros and Cons of abortions.... long time ago my best friend got pregnant... was thinking about having abortion... I talked her out of it.... then she had a baby....

Three yrs later.. i saw her abusing her daughter.... I regretted that i talked her out of abortion...
 
jillio said:
At 4 months gestation, that would be a fetus, not a baby.
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:( I dont know why you claim it when I had seen some premature babies several times, they were human being.. :(

Reba, yes, you are right. It's obviously not kill her son but she had to abort for her own health safe..
 
Reba said:
I'm glad to see that you have a mind open to debate.
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Becasue I don't believe there should even be a debate if a person has the right to tell another person what to do with their body. I'm sorry that we will not agree on that but I'm not sorry as to what my stance is on this subject.
 
SxyPorkie said:
There are Pros and Cons of abortions.... long time ago my best friend got pregnant... was thinking about having abortion... I talked her out of it.... then she had a baby....

Three yrs later.. i saw her abusing her daughter.... I regretted that i talked her out of abortion...
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It's not your fault. She should get help for the abuse or give her daughter to someone who can take care of her.

No one can see the future.
 
Schermy said:
Becasue I don't believe there should even be a debate if a person has the right to tell another person what to do with their body. I'm sorry that we will not agree on that but I'm not sorry as to what my stance is on this subject.
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If there shouldn't be a debate then I guess there's no point in this forum, especially under "On-topic Debates".
 
Mann_K05 said:
Amen!! :D

I got a story from some girls I know.

She was very excited to have a baby, four months later, her belly had stopped the growing but she did not realize until about 6 months at pregnancy. She suspected something was wrong with her baby. She could feel minor pain, sick easily, and to feel a bit of burn in her stomach.. so she went for her doctor appointment. She found out that her baby was already died at four months old of pragnancy but her uetus (sp) did not release the dead baby. She have to abort her child, sadly, she was very heartbroken.. So she have an abortion.. I dont know how it happen to her baby because i dont remmy.

Gee, I felt so bad for her. :(

See, it's personal choice for some good reasons...
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Reba said:
She didn't abort a living baby. The baby was already dead. Removing the body of a dead baby is NOT the same as killing the baby and then removing it. She didn't kill her baby; the baby had already died.

Do you notice that it was a baby and child that died, not a clump of cells.
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FYI, those are miscarriage...
 
Reba said:
"Mother" is not a synonym for "woman". Not all women are mothers.

If you truly believe that it's morally right for mothers to allow abortionists to kill their babies, why are you afraid to come out and say it? Why the semantic dance around?
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Neither is "baby" synonomous with "fetus". I don't see 1st trimester abortion as "killing"., nor does the law. No semantics dance there.
 
Reba said:
In the story, the mother herself referred to it as her baby and child, as expressed her grief over its loss.

How would you comfort her? "So sorry that you lost a fetus"?
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We don't know how exactly the terminology the woman in the story used, as it was relayed to us third person. And I would comfort her the same way I would comfort a woman who has suffered a miscarriage. "I am terribly sorry that you lost this opportunity to become a parent."
 
Reba said:
Not more, just the same. Do we let mothers give permission to kill their newborn babies? Or do we protect the newborns' rights?
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Newborns are quite different from an embryo. Newborns have been born, have taken their first breath, and can survive without being dependent upon the woman's respiratory system, circulatory system, cardiac system, and digestive system. A neonate is an infant, not an embryo. A neonate meets the criteria for viability.

And your reference was to not having control over their bodies. A neonate is dependent upon a parent to make decisions regarding every aspect of their existence. Until they reach the age of majority, they are still subject to parental control over their bodies.
 
PuyoPiyo said:
FYI, those are miscarriage...
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Miscarriage is not abortion, it happens by nature when something is wrong with the baby a woman lost. Miscarriage is caused by the separation of the fetus and placenta from the uterine wall. Although the actual cause of the miscarriage is frequently unclear, the most common reasons include the following:


An abnormal fetus causes almost all miscarriages during the first three months of pregnancy (first trimester). Problems in the genes are responsible for an abnormal fetus and are found in more than half of miscarried fetuses. The risk of defective genes increases with the woman's age, especially over if she is older than 35 years. Miscarriage during the fourth through sixth months of pregnancy (second trimester) is usually related to an abnormality in the mother rather than in the fetus.

Chronic illnesses, including diabetes, severe high blood pressure, kidney disease, lupus, and underactive or overactive thyroid gland, are frequent causes of a miscarriage. Prenatal care is important because it screens for some of these diseases.


Acute infections, including German measles, CMV (cytomegalovirus), mycoplasma ("walking" pneumonia) and other unusual germs, and severe emotional shock, can also cause miscarriage.


Diseases and abnormalities of the internal female organs can also cause miscarriage. Some examples are an abnormal womb, fibroids, poor muscle tone in the mouth of the womb, abnormal growth of the placenta (also called the afterbirth), and multiple gestations that place a stress on your system.


Other factors, especially certain drugs, including caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine, may be related to miscarriage.
 
GarnetTigerMom said:
Miscarriage is not abortion, it happens by nature when something is wrong with the baby a woman lost. Miscarriage is caused by the separation of the fetus and placenta from the uterine wall. Although the actual cause of the miscarriage is frequently unclear, the most common reasons include the following:


An abnormal fetus causes almost all miscarriages during the first three months of pregnancy (first trimester). Problems in the genes are responsible for an abnormal fetus and are found in more than half of miscarried fetuses. The risk of defective genes increases with the woman's age, especially over if she is older than 35 years. Miscarriage during the fourth through sixth months of pregnancy (second trimester) is usually related to an abnormality in the mother rather than in the fetus.

Chronic illnesses, including diabetes, severe high blood pressure, kidney disease, lupus, and underactive or overactive thyroid gland, are frequent causes of a miscarriage. Prenatal care is important because it screens for some of these diseases.


Acute infections, including German measles, CMV (cytomegalovirus), mycoplasma ("walking" pneumonia) and other unusual germs, and severe emotional shock, can also cause miscarriage.


Diseases and abnormalities of the internal female organs can also cause miscarriage. Some examples are an abnormal womb, fibroids, poor muscle tone in the mouth of the womb, abnormal growth of the placenta (also called the afterbirth), and multiple gestations that place a stress on your system.


Other factors, especially certain drugs, including caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine, may be related to miscarriage.
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Did you read Mann's post? She says that her friend's baby died during the pregnancy, so yes it's miscarriage. I am refer to the baby's death in the stomach, not the abortion.
 
jillio said:
Neither is "baby" synonomous with "fetus". I don't see 1st trimester abortion as "killing"., nor does the law. No semantics dance there.
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You and the law don't see it that way but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
 
jillio said:
...Until they reach the age of majority, they are still subject to parental control over their bodies.
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But that control doesn't allow parents to kill their children.
 
"The mother was raped and had two twin girls, she kept one of girls because of her second child had the mother's facial feature. The other girl was sent to forest with a blindfold by the mother, because of the firstborn was looked like her father a lot. The mother never wanted her or loved her firstborn daughter, but she dearly loved and wanted her second daughter.

That bastard child was just abounded in a forest for a while until she took a blindfold off, she realized she was all alone.. She had to search all the way to find a place where she was lived in.. until the bastard child found a town and was adopted by loving family.

Now, she was happily married and have only child, and her descendant was growing and growing. The twin girl, who looked like her father, had about 610 people in her descendant, and they were very thankful for they are existed." - G.C.K. in the book

Now.. If that twin girl is at the present time, I am sure her mother definitely aborts her bastard child, due to rape action, and the twin child will lost about 610 people in her descendant.

But, so what, right? Because a child is not really vaule at all?

If so, then we are in our mothers' wombs and we are nothing but low fetuses, in my opinion.
 
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PuyoPiyo said:
Did you read Mann's post? She says that her friend's baby died during the pregnancy, so yes it's miscarriage. I am refer to the baby's death in the stomach, not the abortion.
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Please read carefully, Abortion and miscarriage is not the same thing. That is two separte thing. Miscarriage happens for so many different reasons like i posted. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn't developing normally. Problems with the baby's genes or chromosomes are typically the result of errors that occur by chance as the embryo divides and grows — not problems inherited from the parents.

In a few cases, a mother's health condition — such as uncontrolled diabetes, thyroid disease, infections, blood-clotting problems, or problems with the uterus or cervix — may lead to miscarriage.

Routine activities — such as exercising, having sex, working or lifting heavy objects — can't provoke a miscarriage. Nausea and vomiting in early pregnancy, even if it's severe, won't cause a miscarriage. And a fall or other injury is unlikely to cause a miscarriage, unless the injury is serious enough to threaten your own life.

Miscarriages is not same as abortion so you need realized it two seprate issue with miscarriage and abortion.
 
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