How to solve courtroom injustice?

Reba · 12-24-2007, 03:39 PM

There has been much discussion here about the many injustices that occur in American court rooms. There have been cases sited where innocent parties are sent to prison, where they serve many years before new DNA technology sets them free.

Here's my question: if the American court system is so unreliable, what's the solution?

What's the solution?

Free the prisoners?

Quit prosecuting crimes?

Amend the Constitution?

Can you determine if someone is guilty or innocent without a trial?

Secretblend · 12-24-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There has been much discussion here about the many injustices that occur in American court rooms. There have been cases sited where innocent parties are sent to prison, where they serve many years before new DNA technology sets them free.

Here's my question: if the American court system is so unreliable, what's the solution?

What's the solution?

Free the prisoners?

Quit prosecuting crimes?

Amend the Constitution?

Can you determine if someone is guilty or innocent without a trial?

In my opinion, as long as humans are involved. Nothing is ever perfect. So all we can do is just do our best to be correct in every aspect of our lives.

Byrdie714 · 12-24-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

In my opinion, as long as humans are involved. Nothing is ever perfect. So all we can do is just do our best to be correct in every aspect of our lives.

Thank you! Good post!

Bear · 12-24-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There has been much discussion here about the many injustices that occur in American court rooms. There have been cases sited where innocent parties are sent to prison, where they serve many years before new DNA technology sets them free.

Here's my question: if the American court system is so unreliable, what's the solution?

What's the solution?

Free the prisoners?

Quit prosecuting crimes?

Amend the Constitution?

Can you determine if someone is guilty or innocent without a trial?

Reba I dont believe the solution is to free the prisoners or to quit prosecuting. I believe the solution is for lawyers to do their jobs and for the cops to do better investigating.

If they checked into everything, instead of he said she said, then we would have less innocent victims behind bars. I also believe the lawyers no matter how overworked or underpaid need to do their jobs. These are not just cases they are taking on, these are not just less see how fast we can deal them, make our money and move on to the next poor sap cases. These are cases with real people and real families behind them.

I also believe when it comes to the juvenile justice system in particular that they should be afforded the same rights as an adult would in court. They should be afforded the right to have their parents there from the minute the cops are called. These kids are too niave to know the tricks that cops will do to get a confession. They are too niave to know that truth does not always prevail.

Our court systems at times are more interested in the outcome instead of the truth. Elections should not depend on a judges stance on crime and how he or she prosecutes cases. Too many innocents go to jail during election years because of the role politics play in the justice system.

There will always be some kind of error happening that does sometimes have a result where an innocent may end up in jail. HOWEVER, an error such as a DNA analysis showing a false positive or whatever, cannot be helped. But we can help lax investigating, politics playing roles in the justice system, crooked judges, crooked cops, and bias.

I wish I could provide all answers but I cant. Maybe if we had a commitee within each court room system, looking over the cases and how they are prosecuted and defended, and had to answer to this commitee it might be different.

jillio · 12-24-2007, 09:24 PM

I agree. The human factor cannot be removed. However, there are inequities in the application of justice that need to be addressed. There are inequities in the ability to obtain effective legal counsel that need to be addressed. In order to address these issues with any degree of progress, society as a whole is going to have to undergo some revision. We have become so individualistic as a society that we are relatively unconcerned with the injustice perpetrated on another. The only time we are willing to take a stand and speak out, and demand that changes be made is when it directly affects us. Then, the indignation over the unjustice seems to surface. Otherwise, we are content to ignore the hardship experienced by others. Until we are willing to speak out against the inequities as they apply to others, we risk the same befalling us.

There are faces and families behind the name. They could just as easliy be yours as theirs.

jillio · 12-24-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

Reba I dont believe the solution is to free the prisoners or to quit prosecuting. I believe the solution is for lawyers to do their jobs and for the cops to do better investigating.

If they checked into everything, instead of he said she said, then we would have less innocent victims behind bars. I also believe the lawyers no matter how overworked or underpaid need to do their jobs. These are not just cases they are taking on, these are not just less see how fast we can deal them, make our money and move on to the next poor sap cases. These are cases with real people and real families behind them.

I also believe when it comes to the juvenile justice system in particular that they should be afforded the same rights as an adult would in court. They should be afforded the right to have their parents there from the minute the cops are called. These kids are too niave to know the tricks that cops will do to get a confession. They are too niave to know that truth does not always prevail.

Our court systems at times are more interested in the outcome instead of the truth. Elections should not depend on a judges stance on crime and how he or she prosecutes cases. Too many innocents go to jail during election years because of the role politics play in the justice system.

There will always be some kind of error happening that does sometimes have a result where an innocent may end up in jail. HOWEVER, an error such as a DNA analysis showing a false positive or whatever, cannot be helped. But we can help lax investigating, politics playing roles in the justice system, crooked judges, crooked cops, and bias.

I wish I could provide all answers but I cant. Maybe if we had a commitee within each court room system, looking over the cases and how they are prosecuted and defended, and had to answer to this commitee it might be different.

+1.

Bear · 12-24-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I agree. The human factor cannot be removed. However, there are inequities in the application of justice that need to be addressed. There are inequities in the ability to obtain effective legal counsel that need to be addressed. In order to address these issues with any degree of progress, society as a whole is going to have to undergo some revision. We have become so individualistic as a society that we are relatively unconcerned with the injustice perpetrated on another. The only time we are willing to take a stand and speak out, and demand that changes be made is when it directly affects us. Then, the indignation over the unjustice seems to surface. Otherwise, we are content to ignore the hardship experienced by others. Until we are willing to speak out against the inequities as they apply to others, we risk the same befalling us.
There are faces and families behind the name. They could just as easliy be yours as theirs.

Guilty as charged Jillio, but now that I do know what this system can do to people, I would to advocate. Just not sure how to get it done.

Angel · 12-24-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

Reba I dont believe the solution is to free the prisoners or to quit prosecuting. I believe the solution is for lawyers to do their jobs and for the cops to do better investigating.

If they checked into everything, instead of he said she said, then we would have less innocent victims behind bars. I also believe the lawyers no matter how overworked or underpaid need to do their jobs. These are not just cases they are taking on, these are not just less see how fast we can deal them, make our money and move on to the next poor sap cases. These are cases with real people and real families behind them.

I also believe when it comes to the juvenile justice system in particular that they should be afforded the same rights as an adult would in court. They should be afforded the right to have their parents there from the minute the cops are called. These kids are too niave to know the tricks that cops will do to get a confession. They are too niave to know that truth does not always prevail.

Our court systems at times are more interested in the outcome instead of the truth. Elections should not depend on a judges stance on crime and how he or she prosecutes cases. Too many innocents go to jail during election years because of the role politics play in the justice system.

There will always be some kind of error happening that does sometimes have a result where an innocent may end up in jail. HOWEVER, an error such as a DNA analysis showing a false positive or whatever, cannot be helped. But we can help lax investigating, politics playing roles in the justice system, crooked judges, crooked cops, and bias.

I wish I could provide all answers but I cant. Maybe if we had a commitee within each court room system, looking over the cases and how they are prosecuted and defended, and had to answer to this commitee it might be different.

!!

Tousi · 12-24-2007, 11:24 PM

There are any number of cases wherein, before the avdent of forensic science, ala DNA, evidence was shaky at best and some innocent people were found guilty based on circumstantial and the best physical evidence of the day. Those innocent ones can appeal if there is modern forensic evidence exonerating them and this is happening almost every day somewhere all across this land. Some may not get the attention of the national media or if it does, it might not go further than the locale.

jillio · 12-25-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

Guilty as charged Jillio, but now that I do know what this system can do to people, I would to advocate. Just not sure how to get it done.

We are all guilty of this one, Bear. JMO that we all need to change that. Self included.

Liebling:-))) · 12-25-2007, 11:42 AM

at post # 4, Bear!!!!!!!!

Buffalo · 12-26-2007, 09:53 AM

I agree that we need to improve the court proceedings.

There is the The Innocence Project - Home which help the innocent prisoners for now until we improve. This link explains what was wrong and what we can do. I hope this help, Reba.

As of today, there was 210 exonerations. That is too many innocent people.

Secretblend · 12-26-2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

I agree that we need to improve the court proceedings.

There is the The Innocence Project - Home which help the innocent prisoners for now until we improve. This link explains what was wrong and what we can do. I hope this help, Reba.

As of today, there was 210 exonerations. That is too many innocent people.

I would agree that 210 is too much, but I wonder how many other than 210 tested was actually correct?

Is it 210 out of 500?
or out of 1000? or more?

if the total is low, then that's a bad sign for the justice systems. However if the total is very high for example, 210 out of 5000, then that's not as bad. That would indicate that the justice system however imperfect it is is doing it's best to be acurate as possible. Like I said earlier, as long as human is involved, mistakes will be made.

Cheri · 12-26-2007, 01:44 PM

Excellent post, Bear once again.

Tousi · 12-26-2007, 02:20 PM

Or cases would go cold for lack of enough evidence on a suspect (before DNA eviidence) and revived and the suspect arrested and tried. And any of a number of other circumstances when the real perpretator wasn't caught but was when DNA technology came along....No statute of limitations on the crime of murder and other egregious crimes....

jillio · 12-26-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Or cases would go cold for lack of enough evidence on a suspect (before DNA eviidence) and revived and the suspect arrested and tried. And any of a number of other circumstances when the real perpretator wasn't caught but was when DNA technology came along....No statute of limitations on the crime of murder and other egregious crimes....

Granted, DNA evidence has also resulted in many convictions of those who actually are guilty of crimes.

However, innocent persons are still being convicted until that evidence becomes available.

jillio · 12-26-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

I would agree that 210 is too much, but I wonder how many other than 210 tested was actually correct?

Is it 210 out of 500?
or out of 1000? or more?

if the total is low, then that's a bad sign for the justice systems. However if the total is very high for example, 210 out of 5000, then that's not as bad. That would indicate that the justice system however imperfect it is is doing it's best to be acurate as possible. Like I said earlier, as long as human is involved, mistakes will be made.

210 innocent people spending time in prison is still 210 innocent people spending time in prison.

Reba · 12-26-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo

I agree that we need to improve the court proceedings.

There is the The Innocence Project - Home which help the innocent prisoners for now until we improve. This link explains what was wrong and what we can do. I hope this help, Reba.

As of today, there was 210 exonerations. That is too many innocent people.

Thank you for the link. Yes, I'm aware of the Innocence Project.

christlovedeaf · 12-26-2007, 03:10 PM

Thats a good way to see what is going on in the legal system. Many has been also been tainted by DA, detectives and the judges. There are so much in the legal system has been violating the constitutions. Many times we get so easily fooled by the media, but not the media itself. But the people of the law. There is so much we do not know what really going on. But it is cruel by saying well the law is the law and the law becomes taking advantage to destroy the society. The law today does not going after criminals, but innocent being accused. But high percentage, that that D A knew who is innocent, but going after the money. Its been going on. And cant remember the movie what it called and its a true story, D A and detective arresting and killed the person to changed the story by accusing the guy of murder someone, which long afterward other police officer confessed what really happened, it was detective the purposely murdered the innocent guy. There is so much thats been happening, there are dirty cops, DA, judges and etc. Sadly, we look down on the criminals which most of them arent actually criminals. Now, friend of mine just told me and he is very very emotional strained, as using as sex offender, there will be a new law which is more abusing on him by extending him 5 more years to registered. This country is more corrupting in the legal system He would ve been cleared 2 more years, but after 2 yrs, 5 more. And those who has recently cleared has to re registered. I'm not talking about rapist, molester, I am talking about those who are been accused, bec so called they saw his penis issues. It is absolutely cruel. The way i see, most of the time in the court problems, most of the time, is doing it on purpose for the profit. They arent really protecting society, but going after them and by using lame excusing by saying, they are only human and allowing them get a way with it. Its very confusion in this matter. I say i fear people of the law as much as criminals, bec both doing the same job. I know their are very few good officers, DA and judges, but alot of them are very dirty and apathetic people.

Maria · 12-28-2007, 02:47 PM

I don't trust these people, Christlovedeaf. I don't know what makes them corrupted or make the system injustice. Is it true that they are getting tired of doin' their job ? Or are they just simply doin' it for a quick job as easy ? Dishonesty is the problem you can't trust anyone nowdays. Is it possible that it has to do with racism, or religion or background where a person came from ? What are they specifically looking for ?

I don't think that they treat everyone the same as equal. Is it about " good " people that they pick on to accuse for their wrongful doings when " good " people didn't do anything ? I know it may confuse " good " people - but, I don't like to see what the " bad " and " corrupted " people are doing to " good " people nowdays...just to ruin their own good so the " good " people can be like " corrupted " people.... well, that's my opinion the way I see it.

The question is : Where did the " good " people go ? What happened to them ? I don't see very many good people out there.....

Byrdie714 · 12-28-2007, 06:25 PM

Just like any other profession as I pointed out on the other thread, there are good, bad and the ugly. Including the court system.

Byrdie714 · 12-28-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

I don't trust these people, Christlovedeaf. I don't know what makes them corrupted or make the system injustice. Is it true that they are getting tired of doin' their job ? Or are they just simply doin' it for a quick job as easy ? Dishonesty is the problem you can't trust anyone nowdays. Is it possible that it has to do with racism, or religion or background where a person came from ? What are they specifically looking for ?

I don't think that they treat everyone the same as equal. Is it about " good " people that they pick on to accuse for their wrongful doings when " good " people didn't do anything ? I know it may confuse " good " people - but, I don't like to see what the " bad " and " corrupted " people are doing to " good " people nowdays...just to ruin their own good so the " good " people can be like " corrupted " people.... well, that's my opinion the way I see it.

The question is : Where did the " good " people go ? What happened to them ? I don't see very many good people out there.....

We are still there...

Byrdie714 · 12-28-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

I would agree that 210 is too much, but I wonder how many other than 210 tested was actually correct?

Is it 210 out of 500?
or out of 1000? or more?

if the total is low, then that's a bad sign for the justice systems. However if the total is very high for example, 210 out of 5000, then that's not as bad. That would indicate that the justice system however imperfect it is is doing it's best to be acurate as possible. Like I said earlier, as long as human is involved, mistakes will be made.

D.O.J. has stated that there is 2 million people in the prison system.

210 out of 2 million.....

Secretblend · 12-28-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

D.O.J. has stated that there is 2 million people in the prison system.

210 out of 2 million.....

That is quite a small amount of poeple that are unfairly in jail. While I feel bad for those 210,. That is a very good indication that our justic systems works very well. It could have been several thousands in jail unfairly and that would still be considered low.

As I said, as long humans are involved. Mistakes will be made. All we can do is do our best to be correct as much as we can.

Thanks Byrdie for getting that information.

12-24-2007, 03:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 15,907	How to solve courtroom injustice? There has been much discussion here about the many injustices that occur in American court rooms. There have been cases sited where innocent parties are sent to prison, where they serve many years before new DNA technology sets them free. Here's my question: if the American court system is so unreliable, what's the solution? What's the solution? Free the prisoners? Quit prosecuting crimes? Amend the Constitution? Can you determine if someone is guilty or innocent without a trial?

12-25-2007, 11:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,769	at post # 4, Bear!!!!!!!! __________________ sniffing you

12-26-2007, 09:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
Buffalo Labra lege! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,236	I agree that we need to improve the court proceedings. There is the The Innocence Project - Home which help the innocent prisoners for now until we improve. This link explains what was wrong and what we can do. I hope this help, Reba. As of today, there was 210 exonerations. That is too many innocent people. __________________ It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem. - Gilbert Chesterton

12-26-2007, 01:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: All I wanted was a white knight with a good heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset Posts: 20,231	Excellent post, Bear once again. __________________

12-26-2007, 03:10 PM	#19 (permalink)
christlovedeaf Pices Guy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: toledo,ohio Posts: 1,868	Thats a good way to see what is going on in the legal system. Many has been also been tainted by DA, detectives and the judges. There are so much in the legal system has been violating the constitutions. Many times we get so easily fooled by the media, but not the media itself. But the people of the law. There is so much we do not know what really going on. But it is cruel by saying well the law is the law and the law becomes taking advantage to destroy the society. The law today does not going after criminals, but innocent being accused. But high percentage, that that D A knew who is innocent, but going after the money. Its been going on. And cant remember the movie what it called and its a true story, D A and detective arresting and killed the person to changed the story by accusing the guy of murder someone, which long afterward other police officer confessed what really happened, it was detective the purposely murdered the innocent guy. There is so much thats been happening, there are dirty cops, DA, judges and etc. Sadly, we look down on the criminals which most of them arent actually criminals. Now, friend of mine just told me and he is very very emotional strained, as using as sex offender, there will be a new law which is more abusing on him by extending him 5 more years to registered. This country is more corrupting in the legal system He would ve been cleared 2 more years, but after 2 yrs, 5 more. And those who has recently cleared has to re registered. I'm not talking about rapist, molester, I am talking about those who are been accused, bec so called they saw his penis issues. It is absolutely cruel. The way i see, most of the time in the court problems, most of the time, is doing it on purpose for the profit. They arent really protecting society, but going after them and by using lame excusing by saying, they are only human and allowing them get a way with it. Its very confusion in this matter. I say i fear people of the law as much as criminals, bec both doing the same job. I know their are very few good officers, DA and judges, but alot of them are very dirty and apathetic people. __________________ I can only imagine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV9jiqS-74g

Today
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12-24-2007, 09:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,401	I agree. The human factor cannot be removed. However, there are inequities in the application of justice that need to be addressed. There are inequities in the ability to obtain effective legal counsel that need to be addressed. In order to address these issues with any degree of progress, society as a whole is going to have to undergo some revision. We have become so individualistic as a society that we are relatively unconcerned with the injustice perpetrated on another. The only time we are willing to take a stand and speak out, and demand that changes be made is when it directly affects us. Then, the indignation over the unjustice seems to surface. Otherwise, we are content to ignore the hardship experienced by others. Until we are willing to speak out against the inequities as they apply to others, we risk the same befalling us. There are faces and families behind the name. They could just as easliy be yours as theirs.

12-24-2007, 11:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,985	There are any number of cases wherein, before the avdent of forensic science, ala DNA, evidence was shaky at best and some innocent people were found guilty based on circumstantial and the best physical evidence of the day. Those innocent ones can appeal if there is modern forensic evidence exonerating them and this is happening almost every day somewhere all across this land. Some may not get the attention of the national media or if it does, it might not go further than the locale.

12-26-2007, 02:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,985	Or cases would go cold for lack of enough evidence on a suspect (before DNA eviidence) and revived and the suspect arrested and tried. And any of a number of other circumstances when the real perpretator wasn't caught but was when DNA technology came along....No statute of limitations on the crime of murder and other egregious crimes....

12-28-2007, 02:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
Maria Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 7,764	I don't trust these people, Christlovedeaf. I don't know what makes them corrupted or make the system injustice. Is it true that they are getting tired of doin' their job ? Or are they just simply doin' it for a quick job as easy ? Dishonesty is the problem you can't trust anyone nowdays. Is it possible that it has to do with racism, or religion or background where a person came from ? What are they specifically looking for ? I don't think that they treat everyone the same as equal. Is it about " good " people that they pick on to accuse for their wrongful doings when " good " people didn't do anything ? I know it may confuse " good " people - but, I don't like to see what the " bad " and " corrupted " people are doing to " good " people nowdays...just to ruin their own good so the " good " people can be like " corrupted " people.... well, that's my opinion the way I see it. The question is : Where did the " good " people go ? What happened to them ? I don't see very many good people out there.....

12-28-2007, 06:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The Washington coast. Posts: 2,781	Just like any other profession as I pointed out on the other thread, there are good, bad and the ugly. Including the court system. __________________ We can Bomb the World into Pieces... But we can't bomb it into Peace.