Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

shel90 said:
Ok that's fine..I understand but it did lead to the propaganda and then the Deaf community got the message indirectly. Then, the Deaf community saw that the CI was an attempt to cure deafness. That is the point.

However, what sucks is that whenever the Deaf community talk about CIs being a cure, they get attacked for for it.

It started somewhere...did the Deaf community start it or did the media or those in the medical field?
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That's because only hearing people allow speak about it. If we say it's not a cure they get upset. If we say it does curethey upset with that as well. I don't understand it.
 
shel90 said:
Ok that's fine..I understand but it did lead to the propaganda and then the Deaf community got the message indirectly. Then, the Deaf community saw that the CI was an attempt to cure deafness. That is the point.

However, what sucks is that whenever the Deaf community talk about CIs being a cure, they get attacked for for it.

It started somewhere...did the Deaf community start it or did the media or those in the medical field?
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How about informing the author of that article on the use of the word "cure" instead instead of getting angry and go about a mob mentality there? So that next time if he writes another similar article in the future he won't use the word "cure" next time.
 
deafbajagal said:
And your point is? That they are politically incorrect? Americans were, too, for a long time. Then someone coined "hearing impaired." Different words, same concept.
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You see those conotations or steroetypes alot in India but not so in America when it comes to using those kinds of words.

Hearing impaired is not the same thing any more than saying visually impaired.
 
I rather be called deaf and dumb than hearing impaired. Hearing impaired as a term in reference to me is very degrading.
 
kokonut said:
How about informing the author of that article on the use of the word "cure" instead instead of getting angry and go about a mob mentality there? So that next time if he writes another similar article in the future he won't use the word "cure" next time.
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It has been done..not to that one but to other articles hence the less connection between CIs and cure here in America. However, it is the mentality set by the medical field that filters through general society that deafness is something not acceptable and needs to be fixed. There was a video shown here a year or so ago of a CI surgeon being interviewed. He said that future deaf children will not need ASL and that ASL will be for the old deaf people.

What kind of talk is that?
 
shel90 said:
It has been done..not to that one but to other articles hence the less connection between CIs and cure here in America. However, it is the mentality set by the medical field that filters through general society that deafness is something not acceptable and needs to be fixed. There was a video shown here a year or so ago of a CI surgeon being interviewed. He said that future deaf children will not need ASL and that ASL will be for the old deaf people.

What kind of talk is that?
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It's been done but did anybody inform that writer about the "cure" part?
 
kokonut said:
It's been done but did anybody inform that writer about the "cure" part?
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Are you willing?

There are so many articles, news stories, and etc where people are claiming that CIs fix deafness or cure it.

How do we keep track of all of them? Any suggestions to help us to contact every person who makes those claims to set them straight would be helpful.
 
My way is the only RIGHT way", "Your child is going to miserable, messed up, and hate you unless you do it MY way". I'm sick of unsubstantiated claims (like those you make in this very post). I'm sick of people saying that all the research is biased, that the things I have seen with my own eyes is a lie and impossible. I'm sick of people who pretend that "their way" has absolutely ZERO problems, drawbacks or cons. I am sick of people making themselves feel important by attacking others choices
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faire joure, you have to stop thinking we are attacking you! We are simply bringing up issues and concerns that you are not thinking of. Yes, implanted kids are doing a lot better then in the past. There's very little "kids who are eight years old and only have a handful of words" But they are STILL hoh, and deal with the same hoh issues that audilogically hoh students have (we have been the most mainstreamed and most oral) Even today 30% of hoh kids have language and other "classic" dhh issues. I see very little " my way is the only right way." Just b/c we are bringing up issues and concerns about a particualr methodology you think we're attacking you. You also think that the traditional/classic hoh route has no downsides. You seem to think that b/c you were told that oral only isn't sucessful and then found out that kids COULD speak and hear, that we're lying about the downsides. Shelli, Bajagirl and I all grew up that way. Granted you're not doing it "oral first and then ASL"...Which is good. ...but you also seem to be taking the problems you had with your bi bi program and expolarating it to all bi bi programs. You wanna know something? One of my friends sent her (audilogically) hoh daughter to Kansas School for the Deaf for preschool. (didn't have an oral program) Although Remy was (and is quite oral) she and her parents LOVED KSD's program! That's from the mom of a HOH kid! And you do seem to be very afraid that Kat won't develop fluent oral abilty.

AND it is a FACT that social emotional issues are a BIGGIE for oral kids. It is a FACT!
I go see an audi at Clarke School for the Deaf, AND I vended at their conference last year. Virtually ALL the conference was about social issues for oral Deaf kids. Heck, just talk to Jillo and the kids she sees in therapy!
Things are a lot more complicated then you think. It's exactly like how the pro ex welfare pundits applaud that people stuck in welfare went down when welfare reform was insistuted. The numbers did not lie......but there was still a lot of struggling and trying to find resouces to survive.
Today's child with a CI or HA in a bi-bi school is experiencing something vastly different from what you experienced as a mainstreamed child without adequate amplification and accommodation
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Well obviously. Deaf Schools tend to have much better accomondations then hearing schools. A lot of times dhh kids in the mainstream get lumped in with the resource room kids, where the teachers don't have a lot of experiance teaching kids with more traditional disabilties. You are so lucky to have experainced a really good deaf school. Beyond lucky actually. You really have no idea how frustrating and hard it is to get good accomondations for dhh kids in the mainstream (meaning at a school without a dhh program)
All I want is that no deaf child be restricted to an oral-only or ASL-only environment. That they get all the tools.

Iam asking..when I express my strong beliefs in the BiBi method, why is at taken as a personal attack on u and the other parents? Sorry, I don't believe in the oral-only approach due to the risks involved. I don't like the idea of mainstreaming full time.

I support a deaf program at public schools with a qualified TOD or deaf schools that offer BiBi with spoken English and ASL classes.

I hate to see deaf children end up with language delays, deficits, and socio-emotional issues.
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:cool2: Agreed....and mainstreaming with minimal accomondations for kids who qualify. I do think that the worship of the mainstream is a little too much. Yes, some kids can do well mainstreamed to the max and oral only.......but again I see a lot of history repeating itself on my various and sundry listservs!!!!
 
shel90 said:
It has been done..not to that one but to other articles hence the less connection between CIs and cure here in America. However, it is the mentality set by the medical field that filters through general society that deafness is something not acceptable and needs to be fixed. There was a video shown here a year or so ago of a CI surgeon being interviewed. He said that future deaf children will not need ASL and that ASL will be for the old deaf people.

What kind of talk is that?
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Way too many professionals think that way. Its almost like they have taught in school to think that way. They have NO idea. What's worst is that when they do mention ASL, they treat it as such a negative way that make parents run. Just like what happened to Joe Mctyre we they found out their child is severe deaf. They are taking AVT now.
 
deafgal001 said:
Way too many professionals think that way. Its almost like they have taught in school to think that way. They have NO idea. What's worst is that when they do mention ASL, they treat it as such a negative way that make parents run. Just like what happened to Joe Mctyre we they found out their child is severe deaf. They are taking AVT now.
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I know..
 
shel90 said:
Are you willing?

There are so many articles, news stories, and etc where people are claiming that CIs fix deafness or cure it.

How do we keep track of all of them? Any suggestions to help us to contact every person who makes those claims to set them straight would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Good idea. Have someone keep a track of authors who have used certain "unacceptable" words in articles they've written. Keep track on letters sent to them and whether they've gotten a response out of them. Create a huge database of these things. I'm sure somebody can run with this idea and get bunches of volunteers to scour the internet on news and articles. Put it all on a new internet website as a way to help these writers be held accountable the next time they write.

No. I'm not interested in doing that. But if somebody else has a fire in their belly, go for it.
 
kokonut said:
Good idea. Have someone keep a track of authors who have used certain "unacceptable" words in articles they've written. Keep track on letters sent to them and whether they've gotten a response out of them. Create a huge database of these things. I'm sure somebody can run with this idea and get bunches of volunteers to scour the internet on news and articles. Put it all on a new internet website as a way to help these writers be held accountable the next time they write.

No. I'm not interested in doing that. But if somebody else has a fire in their belly, go for it.
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I had a friend who worked in the English dept at Gallaudet who did something like that. Dunno if he is still doing it. Lost track of him. I helped him for a short time with drafting letters.
 
deafdyke said:
faire joure, you have to stop thinking we are attacking you! We are simply bringing up issues and concerns that you are not thinking of. Yes, implanted kids are doing a lot better then in the past. There's very little "kids who are eight years old and only have a handful of words" But they are STILL hoh, and deal with the same hoh issues that audilogically hoh students have (we have been the most mainstreamed and most oral) Even today 30% of hoh kids have language and other "classic" dhh issues. I see very little " my way is the only right way." Just b/c we are bringing up issues and concerns about a particualr methodology you think we're attacking you. You also think that the traditional/classic hoh route has no downsides. You seem to think that b/c you were told that oral only isn't sucessful and then found out that kids COULD speak and hear, that we're lying about the downsides. Shelli, Bajagirl and I all grew up that way. Granted you're not doing it "oral first and then ASL"...Which is good. ...but you also seem to be taking the problems you had with your bi bi program and expolarating it to all bi bi programs. You wanna know something? One of my friends sent her (audilogically) hoh daughter to Kansas School for the Deaf for preschool. (didn't have an oral program) Although Remy was (and is quite oral) she and her parents LOVED KSD's program! That's from the mom of a HOH kid! And you do seem to be very afraid that Kat won't develop fluent oral abilty.

AND it is a FACT that social emotional issues are a BIGGIE for oral kids. It is a FACT!
I go see an audi at Clarke School for the Deaf, AND I vended at their conference last year. Virtually ALL the conference was about social issues for oral Deaf kids. Heck, just talk to Jillo and the kids she sees in therapy!
Things are a lot more complicated then you think. It's exactly like how the pro ex welfare pundits applaud that people stuck in welfare went down when welfare reform was insistuted. The numbers did not lie......but there was still a lot of struggling and trying to find resouces to survive.
Well obviously. Deaf Schools tend to have much better accomondations then hearing schools. A lot of times dhh kids in the mainstream get lumped in with the resource room kids, where the teachers don't have a lot of experiance teaching kids with more traditional disabilties. You are so lucky to have experainced a really good deaf school. Beyond lucky actually. You really have no idea how frustrating and hard it is to get good accomondations for dhh kids in the mainstream (meaning at a school without a dhh program)
:cool2: Agreed....and mainstreaming with minimal accomondations for kids who qualify. I do think that the worship of the mainstream is a little too much. Yes, some kids can do well mainstreamed to the max and oral only.......but again I see a lot of history repeating itself on my various and sundry listservs!!!!
Click to expand...

Do you really not see people CONSTANTLY saying that if a child is oral only they will end up messed up with the following list of problem........

Do you really not see people calling me audist?

Do you really not see people saying that children should not be implanted?

Do you really not see people saying that ASL should be mandatory?

Do you really think that I have not thought of every single problem you mention?

And again, I am not afraid that my daughter will not develop spoken language. How could I be, she already has. She has gained (at last formal testing) 4 years in less than 2.
 
deafbajagal said:
People say that ASL restricts the deaf to only the deaf world. Nothing could be further from the truth. By using ASL, the deaf person has ACCESS to the deaf world AND the hearing world. Because there's a language base to learn another language (spoken English) and there's the opportunity to use an interpreter to bridge the gaps.

By learning only spoken English, however, it does restrict the deaf person to only the hearing world. By that, there's not always a language base, thus language delays can result. And the opportunity to use an interpreter lessens.

In many cases, as it was for me, by using only Spoken English, my world was restricted. When I learned ASL, my world opened in both hearing and deaf worlds.

Remember this old thread of mine? http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/55106-i-refuse.html
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Those who learn spoken language-only can still use an interpreter to reach the ASL world, just as those who use ASL-only can use an interpreter to reach those who hear/speak.
 
GrendelQ said:
Those who learn spoken language-only can still use an interpreter to reach the ASL world, just as those who use ASL-only can use an interpreter to reach those who hear/speak.
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I think she was speaking in the educational setting where social development is very very important.
 
kokonut said:
Good idea. Have someone keep a track of authors who have used certain "unacceptable" words in articles they've written. Keep track on letters sent to them and whether they've gotten a response out of them. Create a huge database of these things. I'm sure somebody can run with this idea and get bunches of volunteers to scour the internet on news and articles. Put it all on a new internet website as a way to help these writers be held accountable the next time they write.

No. I'm not interested in doing that. But if somebody else has a fire in their belly, go for it.
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good idea.
 
Wirelessly posted

deafgal001 said:
shel90 said:
They may use a different word but where did that phrase come from? hearing people.
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Old english bible. I don't know if translating another country's language into English is part of the problem or not.
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What the Bible says about Handicapped People?

"Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind ? have not I the LORD?" -- Exodus 4:11

"Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries." -- Lev.21:17-23
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There are more negative views in the Bible, too.

That is why medieval people killed disabled babies, abounded them, and so on. Cos they used to think disabled people are useless. Sometimes people thought deaf people are demonic proceeded by evil spirits, if I remember correctly...

It had been done for years and years. But it is not because of Christianity, elder generations did view disabled people negatively before Christians.

That is all I know...

EDIT: Here's some more...

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: Deaf (DEAF)
DEAF (DEAF)

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: blind (BLIND)
BLIND (BLIND)
 
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