"deaf and dumb"

10-29-2005, 02:05 AM

I'm not sure if this topic has been done before.

Today, I heard this phrase used and almost lost my lid. I know back in the 19th and early 20th Century "dumb" was a term used to mean mute or someone who does not talk. Today, the word obviously has a different meaning. I'd like to know how the deaf community feels about this phrase. Are you offended by it? Do you not mind? Do you think its just a phrase used by ignorant hearies?

tegumi · 10-29-2005, 03:08 AM

That would even be 100 times worse than calling a deafie "hearing impaired"...

I would almost consider deaf and dumb a slur, because it would be highly offensive, just like racial slurs.

Angel · 10-29-2005, 03:33 AM

I second that Tegumi!!....Also here's another thing, some hearing folks use word " retarded " by joking around, but I don't find it quite funni at all! just like I don't like to be called " dumb " either...

CODAchild · 10-29-2005, 09:07 AM

OOOooohhhhhhh that term "deaf and dumb" really hits a nerve with me. NOt only is it the most insulting term, but, the most ignorant of ignorants that use it, think there is nothing wrong with that term, because that is what they said back in the "old days".
I myself being hearing too, would have to suffer listening to a childhood friend (yeah right pffttt) always call my mom and dad that whenever we had a fight. But to make matters worse, she would skip up and down the street saying that about my mom and dad, and that is when I lost the fight in me, because I felt so bad for my parent's that they were being called that and for no reason. Terminolgy has changed so many in the past few hundred years, but, for these people who still use that term "deaf and dumb" time must be standing still for them.
Angel I do agree about "deaf and dumb" being just as bad as saying "retarded". My oldest daughter used to work at Perkins School for the Blind in Watertown, Ma. She worked with Deaf/Blind high school students. 3 times a week my daughter would take her student to the store to teach her how to shop and how to spend her money wisely. One day on my daughter trip to the store with her student, my daughter overheard an older female customer tell her friend. " Oh look at that poor girl, not only is she deaf an dumb, she can't see and is retarded", it took everything in my daughter's heart not to lash out at this lady, but, to go over and say to this older customer "excuse me, I couldn't help to over hear what you said. She is not deaf and dumb, she is deaf. She can't see because she is blind. She is not retarded, she is developmentally delayed. I just need to point that out to you so you will realize that these students are not poor souls but contributing members of this society." With that my daughter walked over to the counter to help her student pay for her items. The store clerk knew how upset my daughter was and told her that he is not going to charge my daughter's students for the candy she bought, he charged the older customer to teach her a lesson not to put her foot in her mouth again. YOu see, the merchants and the neighbors of Watertown, had pride for their deaf/blind students at Perkins because the achievements they had made in their lives, so I guess older woman was a foreigner to these parts of town.
Some people can be so cruel with their words, and it takes people like all of you deaf in AllDeaf and all over the world to find it in your heart to forgive the hearing that truly do not understand through their own ignorance.

Tousi · 10-29-2005, 09:43 AM

Nah, I'll answer to anything.

Seriously, tho, I pretty much agree with you but hesitate to expound on this too much more because I soooo detest political correctness.

DeafMommy0407 · 10-29-2005, 10:12 AM

The word of "deaf and dumb" has offended me many times. I do not like that word with the same sentence. I find it offended all the time. I get angry when ppl talk about it and find me angry. They just get shocked and apologize to me all the time. It doesnt help by apologizing to me at all. I still find it offended no matter what. PERIOD.

the word "deaf and dumb" in the same sentence

Tousi · 10-29-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafGeorgiaLady

The word of "deaf and dumb" has offended me many times. I do not like that word with the same sentence. I find it offended all the time. I get angry when ppl talk about it and find me angry. They just get shocked and apologize to me all the time. It doesnt help by apologizing to me at all. I still find it offended no matter what. PERIOD.

the word "deaf and dumb" in the same sentence

If people keep apologizing to you, that just tells me they are naive and not mean or cruel. So, don't get mad; help/educate them.

DeafMommy0407 · 10-29-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

If people keep apologizing to you, that just tells me they are naive and not mean or cruel. So, don't get mad; help/educate them.

Even they keep talking about it after apologizing to me? I dont think so. They just dont care. Well it can just bite them in the azz. lol I always tell them it is fine but it is not. So I just walk away and ignore them.

10-29-2005, 10:34 AM

When I encounter someone speaking of that terminology or even "deaf and mute," I ask them what the real definition of the word "dumb" and "mute" is. Oftimes they do not know. I guess they get scared when I ask them what it means. I explain that the word "mute" implies that the person has no ability to communicate whatsoever. Then I ask the person if I am communicating with him? How? Writing? Signing? Then that defeats the definition of "mute" because I am able to communicate. Some of them have disagreed with me, only to find out in the dictionary what mute means. And what's cool, some of modern-day dictionaries do imply that mute is a derogatory word for a deaf person.

rjr2006 · 10-29-2005, 11:46 AM

See my thread: http://www.alldeaf.com/american-disabilities-act/21148-words-terms-commonly-used-able-bodied-describe-disabled-world.html

Rose Immortal · 10-29-2005, 12:08 PM

God, what primordial swamp do these people crawl out of?

There are few quicker ways to provoke my temper than this (and equivalent terms), and it doesn't even affect me personally. It's amazing how little people think through the implications of the words they choose. Or if they do, it's sad how few people care.

Oh, and speaking of derogatory terms, am I the only one who's also sick of "gay" becoming an adjective for anything that's "stupid", including inanimate objects? I absolutely hate that, with a passion.

Angel · 10-29-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafGeorgiaLady

Even they keep talking about it after apologizing to me? I dont think so. They just dont care. Well it can just bite them in the azz. lol I always tell them it is fine but it is not. So I just walk away and ignore them.

Exactly, if they didn't really mean it, why say it again and again?....

born2blovely · 10-29-2005, 02:02 PM

That is why I start up and 0wn a busniess as a Electrical Contractor (Master/ State Wide lic.) to showing Normal hearing person we're not deaf and dumb.

GalaxyAngel · 10-29-2005, 02:55 PM

Deaf and mute is very quite offened remarks too strong word impact w/Deaf people. Deaf people would be more angrily formal againist word "Deaf and Mute" and prefer their POV word "Deaf" instead mute. Of course I've seen hearing people said, Oh sorry you're Deaf and mute.. I was said, Excuse me, Do you think can't I talk to you? Isn't proprite word say that mute was very old acident word coming from 1800's sumth'n like that.

Also another word "Hearing imparied" mostly they call'n me, Oh yes, you're hearing imparied.. Uh, excuse me, means my ears are broken ? Do I looks my ears is empty or uglier ? No My ears is normal why named for hearing imparied.. Made me feel alike turned off.. Socitey total fault because not enough educational everyone knowledge about Disbitities peoples. Hearing people will not stop talk about "retard or else any kind of wording". Quite still ongiong "insluting word". Never stop.. What should I do w/this. ? Let them go.. useless...

If you willing strong stand up and speak it out.. that great! If I were you.. yes. I will

Simlair alike "Bully/Bullies" still same inslut people so called "Retard, Dumb , dork and much more.. still same thing as "Deaf and mute"

What do you feel and opnion ?

DeafMommy0407 · 10-29-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^Angel^

Exactly, if they didn't really mean it, why say it again and again?....

Right. That is why I dont understand that kind of ppl so I just ignore them and go on with my business. Peace. That is all.

Maria · 10-29-2005, 03:06 PM

I don't find these word "dumb" attractive. I don't mind these word "deaf" but, "dumb" .. gee, that is pretty insultin' word. Tsk

Teresh · 10-29-2005, 04:04 PM

I really can't stand the terms 'deaf and dumb'... In different sentences and different contexts, I don't care, but as anyone posting here should know, deaf people are not dumb. Being 'dumb' may have meant being mute 100 years ago, and indeed some people who are deaf are socially mute as a result of deafness, but now the word 'dumb' refers to something being stupid, which is certainly not the case here.

Calling someone "hearing impaired" is offensive. Calling someone "deaf and dumb" is grounds for lynching, 'nuff said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Immortal

Oh, and speaking of derogatory terms, am I the only one who's also sick of "gay" becoming an adjective for anything that's "stupid", including inanimate objects? I absolutely hate that, with a passion.

I fight this skew of intent by confronting anyone I hear doing it... If you don't like it, fight it. S'about all you can do, really. >>

RedFox · 10-29-2005, 05:36 PM

people who refuse to learn not to insult us

deafdyke · 10-29-2005, 07:25 PM

I don't like the term deaf and dumb.....or deaf-mute. That said I think there should be a term for folks who can't speak or who choose to only use ASL.
I mean there's nonverbal, but that term just is linked in the public consciousness with mental retardation/cognitive delay.
CODAchild.......you're using the wrong terminlogy. Developmental delay is a lot more then just cogitive issues. A person can have a normal IQ but still have developmental delays due to things like Asperger's Syndrome, cerebal palsy etc. I'm dd myself, BUT I don't have a low IQ (do have learning disabilties thou)

CODAchild · 10-29-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

I don't like the term deaf and dumb.....or deaf-mute. That said I think there should be a term for folks who can't speak or who choose to only use ASL.
I mean there's nonverbal, but that term just is linked in the public consciousness with mental retardation/cognitive delay.
CODAchild.......you're using the wrong terminlogy. Developmental delay is a lot more then just cogitive issues. A person can have a normal IQ but still have developmental delays due to things like Asperger's Syndrome, cerebal palsy etc. I'm dd myself, BUT I don't have a low IQ (do have learning disabilties thou)

OH this is the terminology that Perkins School for the Blind, where my daughter used to work. They use this in place of the word "retard" dated back many years ago.
You certainly do not have a low IQ deafdyke, I have read many of your postings, and I have found you very intelligent and very interesting. You have such a broad horizon of knowledge, and a wide range of interesting facts that you share. Speaking of sharing, thank you so much for sharing that with me. I always have had a lot of respect for you because I learn a lot from you when you post.

Rose Immortal · 10-29-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teresh

I fight this skew of intent by confronting anyone I hear doing it... If you don't like it, fight it. S'about all you can do, really. >>

I have and I do, quite loudly.

To whoever said there should be some kind of quick and value-neutral term to explain that a person does not speak aloud, any idea what that proper word is? I could actually use it for a story I wrote, where one of my characters hears but has lost his ability to speak. (And no, I didn't call him by any of the terms in this thread--I just had to explain it in a phrase when I would make a reference to the fact.)

Cheri · 10-29-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cental34

I'm not sure if this topic has been done before.

Today, I heard this phrase used and almost lost my lid. I know back in the 19th and early 20th Century "dumb" was a term used to mean mute or someone who does not talk. Today, the word obviously has a different meaning. I'd like to know how the deaf community feels about this phrase. Are you offended by it? Do you not mind? Do you think its just a phrase used by ignorant hearies?

That phrase of "deaf and dumb" is really outdated, I haven't heard anyone saying those words to me before ever, I'm sure deaf and hard of hearing would feel offensive, because that's an offensive term. Just because they used that word in the 19 century that's what they thought of deaf people as "mute or silent." But, that had change, I've seen more hearing people are showing respect to deaf and hard of hearing, There many of them wanted to learn sign language, curious about deaf culture, and accepting deaf and hard of hearing in schools like mainstream and oral.

The*Empress · 10-30-2005, 12:01 AM

almost like the word, "colored"...
I don't like that word....

same thing I don't like that word "deaf and dumb"

Yeah it offended me.

And I don't understand "gifted", what is that?

And special education???

CatoCooper13 · 10-30-2005, 04:13 AM

I have a sore spot with that label - when I was 7 years old I got hit by a car (fortunately, I wasn't seriously injured), I had to put in a report with the police, you know, policy procedure after any types of accidents, etc. I had used my voice and signed at the same time. The cop who took my report understood most of what I said -- then when I read up the report before signing the paper, I saw that he had put down me as ' deaf and dumb', I got so upset and told him that I wasn't dumb - he said no because I couldn't talk! What? Didn't he hear me talk at all during the reporting? Gee...

My mother wasn't impressed with that, either.

GalaxyAngel · 10-30-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R3na3Blyth3

I have a sore spot with that label - when I was 7 years old I got hit by a car (fortunately, I wasn't seriously injured), I had to put in a report with the police, you know, policy procedure after any types of accidents, etc. I had used my voice and signed at the same time. The cop who took my report understood most of what I said -- then when I read up the report before signing the paper, I saw that he had put down me as ' deaf and dumb', I got so upset and told him that I wasn't dumb - he said no because I couldn't talk! What? Didn't he hear me talk at all during the reporting? Gee...

My mother wasn't impressed with that, either.

R3na3blyth3,

Oh geee... Obvouisly Police still think "Deaf and Dumb" label of course label is rude..
I can understand your feeling, disagree w/police written label on you.. Oh of course when you're young and 7 yrs old.

If suppose Adult...
If I were you, I will go to the headquarter police station and your speak out rights offend againist police.

**I've noticed Children cannot speak their rights aganist the police's written their own label on you "Deaf and Dumb".. Adult can rights speak it out aganist police's written their word label on you "Deaf and Dumb". Easily win the case. Difference Child and Adult? How solution the problem issues.?

I wish I could punch his jock!

Rose Immortal · 10-30-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalaxyAngel

I wish I could punch his jock!

Take a number. I think there are a bunch of us waiting in line to punch him.

deafdyke · 10-30-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

OH this is the terminology that Perkins School for the Blind, where my daughter used to work. They use this in place of the word "retard" dated back many years ago.

Oh no problem.....even professionals sometimes misuse the terminlogy. However, developmental delay specificly means like a laundry list of issues connected to cognitive delays. Like someone with Aspeger's Syndrome can be developmentally delayed, but have a normal IQ.

dkf747 · 10-30-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Immortal

I have and I do, quite loudly.

To whoever said there should be some kind of quick and value-neutral term to explain that a person does not speak aloud, any idea what that proper word is? I could actually use it for a story I wrote, where one of my characters hears but has lost his ability to speak. (And no, I didn't call him by any of the terms in this thread--I just had to explain it in a phr

10-29-2005, 02:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
apathrev Guest Posts: n/a	"deaf and dumb" I'm not sure if this topic has been done before. Today, I heard this phrase used and almost lost my lid. I know back in the 19th and early 20th Century "dumb" was a term used to mean mute or someone who does not talk. Today, the word obviously has a different meaning. I'd like to know how the deaf community feels about this phrase. Are you offended by it? Do you not mind? Do you think its just a phrase used by ignorant hearies?

10-29-2005, 03:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 19,088	I second that Tegumi!!....Also here's another thing, some hearing folks use word " retarded " by joking around, but I don't find it quite funni at all! just like I don't like to be called " dumb " either... __________________ "When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

10-29-2005, 09:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
CODAchild Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cranston, Rhode Island Posts: 2,767	OOOooohhhhhhh that term "deaf and dumb" really hits a nerve with me. NOt only is it the most insulting term, but, the most ignorant of ignorants that use it, think there is nothing wrong with that term, because that is what they said back in the "old days". I myself being hearing too, would have to suffer listening to a childhood friend (yeah right pffttt) always call my mom and dad that whenever we had a fight. But to make matters worse, she would skip up and down the street saying that about my mom and dad, and that is when I lost the fight in me, because I felt so bad for my parent's that they were being called that and for no reason. Terminolgy has changed so many in the past few hundred years, but, for these people who still use that term "deaf and dumb" time must be standing still for them. Angel I do agree about "deaf and dumb" being just as bad as saying "retarded". My oldest daughter used to work at Perkins School for the Blind in Watertown, Ma. She worked with Deaf/Blind high school students. 3 times a week my daughter would take her student to the store to teach her how to shop and how to spend her money wisely. One day on my daughter trip to the store with her student, my daughter overheard an older female customer tell her friend. " Oh look at that poor girl, not only is she deaf an dumb, she can't see and is retarded", it took everything in my daughter's heart not to lash out at this lady, but, to go over and say to this older customer "excuse me, I couldn't help to over hear what you said. She is not deaf and dumb, she is deaf. She can't see because she is blind. She is not retarded, she is developmentally delayed. I just need to point that out to you so you will realize that these students are not poor souls but contributing members of this society." With that my daughter walked over to the counter to help her student pay for her items. The store clerk knew how upset my daughter was and told her that he is not going to charge my daughter's students for the candy she bought, he charged the older customer to teach her a lesson not to put her foot in her mouth again. YOu see, the merchants and the neighbors of Watertown, had pride for their deaf/blind students at Perkins because the achievements they had made in their lives, so I guess older woman was a foreigner to these parts of town. Some people can be so cruel with their words, and it takes people like all of you deaf in AllDeaf and all over the world to find it in your heart to forgive the hearing that truly do not understand through their own ignorance. __________________ Thank you ^Angel^ for creating this beautiful banner

10-29-2005, 02:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
GalaxyAngel That's me! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Alberta,Canada Posts: 13,541	Deaf and mute is very quite offened remarks too strong word impact w/Deaf people. Deaf people would be more angrily formal againist word "Deaf and Mute" and prefer their POV word "Deaf" instead mute. Of course I've seen hearing people said, Oh sorry you're Deaf and mute.. I was said, Excuse me, Do you think can't I talk to you? Isn't proprite word say that mute was very old acident word coming from 1800's sumth'n like that. Also another word "Hearing imparied" mostly they call'n me, Oh yes, you're hearing imparied.. Uh, excuse me, means my ears are broken ? Do I looks my ears is empty or uglier ? No My ears is normal why named for hearing imparied.. Made me feel alike turned off.. Socitey total fault because not enough educational everyone knowledge about Disbitities peoples. Hearing people will not stop talk about "retard or else any kind of wording". Quite still ongiong "insluting word". Never stop.. What should I do w/this. ? Let them go.. useless... If you willing strong stand up and speak it out.. that great! If I were you.. yes. I will Simlair alike "Bully/Bullies" still same inslut people so called "Retard, Dumb , dork and much more.. still same thing as "Deaf and mute" What do you feel and opnion ? __________________ Parent's proud our children.

10-30-2005, 12:01 AM	#23 (permalink)
The*Empress Merry Christmas!!!! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: on Plantation. Posts: 6,935	almost like the word, "colored"... I don't like that word.... same thing I don't like that word "deaf and dumb" Yeah it offended me. And I don't understand "gifted", what is that? And special education??? __________________

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10-29-2005, 03:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
tegumi Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 421	That would even be 100 times worse than calling a deafie "hearing impaired"... I would almost consider deaf and dumb a slur, because it would be highly offensive, just like racial slurs.

10-29-2005, 09:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,238	Nah, I'll answer to anything. Seriously, tho, I pretty much agree with you but hesitate to expound on this too much more because I soooo detest political correctness.

10-29-2005, 10:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
DeafMommy0407 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,659	The word of "deaf and dumb" has offended me many times. I do not like that word with the same sentence. I find it offended all the time. I get angry when ppl talk about it and find me angry. They just get shocked and apologize to me all the time. It doesnt help by apologizing to me at all. I still find it offended no matter what. PERIOD. the word "deaf and dumb" in the same sentence

10-29-2005, 10:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
kuifje75 Guest Posts: n/a	When I encounter someone speaking of that terminology or even "deaf and mute," I ask them what the real definition of the word "dumb" and "mute" is. Oftimes they do not know. I guess they get scared when I ask them what it means. I explain that the word "mute" implies that the person has no ability to communicate whatsoever. Then I ask the person if I am communicating with him? How? Writing? Signing? Then that defeats the definition of "mute" because I am able to communicate. Some of them have disagreed with me, only to find out in the dictionary what mute means. And what's cool, some of modern-day dictionaries do imply that mute is a derogatory word for a deaf person.

10-29-2005, 11:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
rjr2006 RJR2K6 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon moving to Rochy Posts: 1,821	See my thread: http://www.alldeaf.com/american-disabilities-act/21148-words-terms-commonly-used-able-bodied-describe-disabled-world.html

10-29-2005, 12:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rose Immortal Telepathic Spirit Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,254	God, what primordial swamp do these people crawl out of? There are few quicker ways to provoke my temper than this (and equivalent terms), and it doesn't even affect me personally. It's amazing how little people think through the implications of the words they choose. Or if they do, it's sad how few people care. Oh, and speaking of derogatory terms, am I the only one who's also sick of "gay" becoming an adjective for anything that's "stupid", including inanimate objects? I absolutely hate that, with a passion.

10-29-2005, 02:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
born2blovely Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4	That is why I start up and 0wn a busniess as a Electrical Contractor (Master/ State Wide lic.) to showing Normal hearing person we're not deaf and dumb.

10-29-2005, 03:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
Maria My love and I Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 8,725	I don't find these word "dumb" attractive. I don't mind these word "deaf" but, "dumb" .. gee, that is pretty insultin' word. Tsk

10-29-2005, 05:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
RedFox Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bellows Falls, VT Posts: 1,195	people who refuse to learn not to insult us

10-29-2005, 07:25 PM	#19 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,684	I don't like the term deaf and dumb.....or deaf-mute. That said I think there should be a term for folks who can't speak or who choose to only use ASL. I mean there's nonverbal, but that term just is linked in the public consciousness with mental retardation/cognitive delay. CODAchild.......you're using the wrong terminlogy. Developmental delay is a lot more then just cogitive issues. A person can have a normal IQ but still have developmental delays due to things like Asperger's Syndrome, cerebal palsy etc. I'm dd myself, BUT I don't have a low IQ (do have learning disabilties thou)

10-30-2005, 04:13 AM	#24 (permalink)
CatoCooper13 Am attached and in LOVE! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sonoma County, California Posts: 6,418	I have a sore spot with that label - when I was 7 years old I got hit by a car (fortunately, I wasn't seriously injured), I had to put in a report with the police, you know, policy procedure after any types of accidents, etc. I had used my voice and signed at the same time. The cop who took my report understood most of what I said -- then when I read up the report before signing the paper, I saw that he had put down me as ' deaf and dumb', I got so upset and told him that I wasn't dumb - he said no because I couldn't talk! What? Didn't he hear me talk at all during the reporting? Gee... My mother wasn't impressed with that, either. __________________ Til I hold my bub in my arms.