Auditory-verbal therapy research claims

rick48 said:
What, there is another person like Sourmindless! Please do not say that even in jest!

Exactly who are the "audist" parents that you fell you must target. Maybe I missed someone's posts but I do not recall reading anyone saying that all children should be raised oral only or that learning a manual language was wrong. On this board at least, it seems that the parents who seem most tolerant and accepting of diversity in the deaf community are the ones who have exposed their children to both oral and manual language development.
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Here comes that defensiveness again. I went back and checked, and I swear that I cound not find a single post that said rick48 is an audist!
 
jillio said:
Here comes that defensiveness again. I went back and checked, and I swear that I cound not find a single post that said rick48 is an audist!
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I am :confused: never said anyone is audist here..
 
And whether you believe in Sweetmind's philosophy or not, there is no need to name call or to berate her values. She has developed her attitude based on her experience as a Deaf individual. You have absolutely no right to pronounce her right or wrong, because her views have grown out of her experiences, and that is neither wrong or right, but simply is.
 
jillio said:
Here comes that defensiveness again. I went back and checked, and I swear that I cound not find a single post that said rick48 is an audist!
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Nice try but really your tactic of labeling anyone who does not agree with you as either defensive, insecure or both is growing stale.

If you had bothered to read the post you would clearly see that I was asking DD to state who she feels is an audist parent.
 
jillio said:
And whether you believe in Sweetmind's philosophy or not, there is no need to name call or to berate her values. She has developed her attitude based on her experience as a Deaf individual. You have absolutely no right to pronounce her right or wrong, because her views have grown out of her experiences, and that is neither wrong or right, but simply is.
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You're right about mispronouncing her name, it is childish and immature.
 
rick48 said:
What, there is another person like Sourmindless! Please do not say that even in jest!

Exactly who are the "audist" parents that you fell you must target. Maybe I missed someone's posts but I do not recall reading anyone saying that all children should be raised oral only or that learning a manual language was wrong. On this board at least, it seems that the parents who seem most tolerant and accepting of diversity in the deaf community are the ones who have exposed their children to both oral and manual language development.
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Ah..now I get it It is possible she could be referring to the "audist" parents who may not even be registered members here. I have encountered a lot of them in my personal life.For example, if u read my post about my neighbor, she seems to be leaning on the "audist" side. Seems she is so intent on having her son learn how to speak and hear and I could tell that her son was already significantly delayed. I am not sure if her son already has other cognitive disabilities or what but if so, then exposing him to sign becomes even more critical. I was outside playing with my son today and she came out with her son. As soon as she saw me waving at her, she went back in. She used to take him outside a lot before so it makes me wonder....

Maybe audist is too much of a strong word?
 
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jillio said:
And whether you believe in Sweetmind's philosophy or not, there is no need to name call or to berate her values. She has developed her attitude based on her experience as a Deaf individual. You have absolutely no right to pronounce her right or wrong, because her views have grown out of her experiences, and that is neither wrong or right, but simply is.
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Yea I agree with u. There were times when I posted about my experiences and POVs and if others dont like it, they tell me to stop being negative or stop making those kinds of statements. I am like wow, I dont have the right to talk about what I experienced? I get accused of being this or that. :ugh3:
 
jillio said:
You know, I really have to take offense to the satement that anyone is "too smart" to attend a school for the deaf. That implies that the students attending a deaf school are below average in intelligence, and nothing could be further from the truth. You want to accuse anyone who makes a comment on a con regarding CI as making across the board statements that don't apply to everyone, and then you turn around and make a statement like that!
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I think your offense is misplaced. I did not read Boult's comments to imply it was the students who were "below average in intelligence" rather that the curriculum was. In fact, that is a common complaint I hear from parents and students of Deaf schools and when we were looking at schools for our daughter, it was a reality.
 
jillio said:
It's always great to hear about the exceptions, /QUOTE]

You mention "exceptions" frequently. Exactly what do you mean by an "exception"? What makes a deaf child an "exception" as you use the term?
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rick48 said:
I think your offense is misplaced. I did not read Boult's comments to imply it was the students who were "below average in intelligence" rather that the curriculum was. In fact, that is a common complaint I hear from parents and students of Deaf schools and when we were looking at schools for our daughter, it was a reality.
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The deaf school where I work at uses the public school curriculm so is it the wrong curriculm? This is what I dont get...why blame the schools? Maybe it is the influx of children coming from mainstreamed programs that fell so far behind and we have to work hard with them to catch up. Unfortunately, many of them lost motivation to learn due to struggling. The school where my brother works at have a large population of deaf children from Spanish speaking families who are pratically illiterate themselves. Why not look at other variables instead of just at the schools or teachers themselves?
 
deafdyke said:
Kayla1234, don't take it personally.....I think shel is mostly venting... And I mean she's not a Sweetmind (ie extreme anti CI) She's NOT saying that there aren't sucess stories. Just that, just as with hearing aids, results vary enourmously across the board.
I guess too, that she,me and jillo are more targeting our comments towards the parents who are very audist. I've got a lot more to say, but I need to get to bed.......been a long day.
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Deafdyke.... leave sweetmind out ... she is not here to fend for herself.. so hush up....
 
kayla123 said:
No Shel, Reading is not all my daughter could do. I used that as an example of her progress in school. I am not an idiot and if i see my daughter struggling in school then you better believe i would do something about it. I understand you work with kids that the CI has failed but the the implant does not work on it's own. It takes alot of work to make it work and that's exactly what i'm doing and so far it's working. Just for your information, there are success stories regarding the CI and it seems that some of you just don't want to see the success stories but the failures instead. Stop being so negative because all your doing is pushing parents away. Opinions are welcome, thats why i am here but don't sit there and be so negative about the good things that we say about our children regarding the CI. I would also like to add hearing with HA is different then hearing with the CI. I assume you used HA growing up. When Kayla wore hearing aids her audiogram showed hearing at 50-60 dbs. With her implant she is at 20dbs across the board, big difference.
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Great post Kayla. You seem to really have a handle on what's going on with your daughter. Good luck, there are a lot of resources around. We found as we went along that deaf adults were the most patient and honest. They had no agenda and it was not about comparing your child with their child but giving the benefit of their experiences. Actually, they were the most firm in their belief that a ci would benefit our daughter.
Rick
 
In light of the recent "colorful" discussion, here's a good question that comes to mind.

How many people here who identify as a proponent of residential education will not only accept but also encourage implantation?

Additionally . . .

How many people here who identify as a proponent of pediatric implantation will not only accept but also encourage development of a "D"eaf identity, ASL, and such?

I'm interested in seeing how many people are willing to strafe both sides, because I'm wondering how many of us are polarized.
 
Endymion said:
In light of the recent "colorful" discussion, here's a good question that comes to mind.

How many people here who identify as a proponent of residential education will not only accept but also encourage implantation?

Additionally . . .

How many people here who identify as a proponent of pediatric implantation will not only accept but also encourage development of a "D"eaf identity, ASL, and such?

I'm interested in seeing how many people are willing to strafe both sides, because I'm wondering how many of us are polarized.
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The residential school where I work at has a CI program now where we use both spoken English and ASL to meet the children's auditority needs.

Most babies here in MD get their hearing screened and if they are identified with hearing losses, they are referred to the audologists and that is usually where the suggestion of CIs occurs. That happens before the child or the parents meet with representatives from the residential schools so I dont see how the residential school would have a chance to encourage implants. I think our place is to be neutral but to offer both ASL and spoken language so the children can get the best of both languages.

However, we have an audologist who is deaf with bi-lateral CIs..yes, working at the residential school.

Is that a good or bad thing? :dunno:
 
I just get the feeling that if I or other deaf people speak out against CIs or oral only approach, we are viewed as deaf militants and want to keep ourselves isolated from the hearing world.
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AMEN!!!!! Excellent post! Most of us here, are very pro-oral skills.......but being anti one tool isn't being militant.
,]
Exactly who are the "audist" parents that you fell you must target. Maybe I missed someone's posts but I do not recall reading anyone saying that all children should be raised oral only or that learning a manual language was wrong
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No, we don't have any extremely audist parents, but we do have parents who aren't exactly eager for their kids to learn Sign, as a tool or a second language. Those are the parents who think "Oh my child doesn't need something that's speshal needs! Yahoo! Guess we don't need Sign!" Those parents aren't exactly audist, but they are very ableist. And there are probaly a loto of parents who lurk here. I mean we STILL have a lot of people regarding ASL as something "speshal needs", rather then as a fun interesting tool.
 
deafdyke said:
AMEN!!!!! Excellent post! Most of us here, are very pro-oral skills.......but being anti one tool isn't being militant.
,] No, we don't have any extremely audist parents, but we do have parents who aren't exactly eager for their kids to learn Sign, as a tool or a second language. Those are the parents who think "Oh my child doesn't need something that's speshal needs! Yahoo! Guess we don't need Sign!" Those parents aren't exactly audist, but they are very ableist. And there are probaly a loto of parents who lurk here. I mean we STILL have a lot of people regarding ASL as something "speshal needs", rather then as a fun interesting tool.
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As a parent who raised an oral child, I have to tell you that you are way off base if you think that is the thought process parents go through. Briefly, while we made a decision to raise our daughter orally, we never ruled out sign as an option but in her case, once she got her ci her language development just exploded and never stoped. Also, whenever signs were introduced to her in therapy, she just had no interest in them, she wanted to hear the words not see them. At that point in time, what needs she would require later in school was furthest from our minds but once she reached school we fought for all the special needs she deserved.
 
Well i understand that everyone here is posting about about their own personal expierences and that is why i come to these sites to learn more about dhh people since i never had any knowledge about deaf people until my daughter was born. I understand that Kayla is still young and even though she is doing fine now i can't predict what will happen in the future. I pay very close attention to her actions and i constantly keep in contact with her teachers to make sure she is doing ok. I am not one of those "You have to talk or your not going to make it" parents. I personally think that speech is a very usefull tool to have but that dose'nt mean i am knocking sign. I know that sign is just as usefull and i started introducing it to her and she seems to be very interested in learning it. I don't have blinders on, things happen, equipment fail and don't think i'm nuts but the paranoid part of me thinks, what if a war or something like that were to happen and Kayla would have no access to batteries. These are some of the things that actually run through my head, so believe me i know the importance of sign not just as a language but as a necessity. I dont go only by what the pros say, i go by my instinct as a mother who will do whatever it takes to ensure my daughters happiness and well being. It just seems to me that whenever something positive is being said about the CI, there is always a negitive response in return. Kayla loves coming home and showing me how well she did in school and i can't help but share that. She gets so excited and when i see that spark in her eyes i know i made the right choice for her.
 
Endymion said:
In light of the recent "colorful" discussion, here's a good question that comes to mind.

How many people here who identify as a proponent of residential education will not only accept but also encourage implantation?

Additionally . . .

How many people here who identify as a proponent of pediatric implantation will not only accept but also encourage development of a "D"eaf identity, ASL, and such?

I'm interested in seeing how many people are willing to strafe both sides, because I'm wondering how many of us are polarized.
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Endymion,

From the time our daughter was first diagnosed, we have been actively involed in the oral deaf community. Our daughter was around deaf adults and she had friends who were deaf from when she was an infant. It has always been a part of her life and continues to be today.
Rick
 
Also, whenever signs were introduced to her in therapy, she just had no interest in them,
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rick.....that is AWESOME. I know there ARE kids out there who are introduced to both, and they themselves chose speech, and who rejected Sign, on their own terms.
I (and most other dhh activists) have NO beef whatsoever with parents who are openminded and who decide to do a "whatever works" methodology.
kayla123, if we had MORE parents like you and rick, I don't even think that the communication wars would even exist.
However, there are still many experts who push oral only at all costs, and or who think that oral only is some sort of grand high glorious utopia.
 
Kayla..I didnt mean to appear negative about your daughter. If it looked that way, that was not my intention.

Anyways..Rick, Kayla, and other parents who are members...I think what u are doing is great. U are exposing your children to both and making sure that their language development does not become severely delayed. I just wish the parents out there that I have met shared your views. Many of the parents view ASL as a another method of English for deaf children who are low functioning so due to that view, they shy away from exposing it to their children for fear that it will make their children less than normal. Due to their denial or views, their children who dont pick up on oral language falls so severely behind that it is not even funny. When they finally realize or when the schools their children go to tell them that there is no use in using oral language with them and to send them to the deaf schools. The problem with that is the children come to our schools from other schools are usually 3 or 4 years delayed in language and I am wondering why does this still happen? Were the specialist lax in recognizing that the deaf children werent acquiring language? Yes, we have deaf children who have attended our schools since they were babies and they are doing fine with literacy skills but it is a small number as opposed to the transferred students. We even had one middle school girl with a CI who just came to our school a year ago who was reading and writing at the 2nd grade level. She had no cognitive disabilities so it just puzzles me and makes me furious. My goal is to reach out to those hearing people whether they have deaf children or not that ASL is just as important as spoken language. A lot of people, even parents of deaf children, could be reading our posts and not even sign up to be members so whenever I say things about parents, it is not always going to be about the parents here in AD. If so, I will ephasize that.
 
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