Vocab limits?

[shel90]

Exactly, you just pointed out that SEE isn't a "language".

That's why I prefer SEE or MMS be used for deaf students learning English. They may not be able to speak it, but they can write and read it. That's certainly better than speaking.

They can learn to read and write it just fine if they have a strong L1 language whether it is in spoken English or ASL. I have seen proof of that. If they dont have a language, SEE or MMS wont work well and would make learning more difficult for the children. If they were older and already have an understanding of concepts, then teaching them in SEE and MMS wouldnt be so hard. The children must establish an understanding of how the world works or concepts first.

 

[Rio]

ASL is much more limited than the English language. ASL usually has one sign for multiple words.

Yep, Vampy got that right.. so, it looks like I know every sign there is

 

[jasin]

Will interpreters be expected to have teaching experience?


If the teachers don't need to be interpreters, how do they get interpreting experience?


What was the reason given for this requirement?

Sorry for all the questions. This all news to me, so I'm a little confused.

In my state, we're just lucky to get enough terps who are qualified interpret, and enough teachers who are qualified to teach.

Under ada law an interpreter does not need to be registered. An interpreter only needs to be qualified.

 

[jasin]

I make very few errors in spoken and written English. Asl was not limiting for me nor did it prevent me from learning the English language.

 

[Hear Again]

They can learn to read and write it just fine if they have a strong L1 language whether it is in spoken English or ASL. I have seen proof of that. If they dont have a language, SEE or MMS wont work well and would make learning more difficult for the children. If they were older and already have an understanding of concepts, then teaching them in SEE and MMS wouldnt be so hard. The children must establish an understanding of how the world works or concepts first.

shel and/or jillio,

what does L1 mean?

 

[Hear Again]

I make very few errors in spoken and written English. Asl was not limiting for me nor did it prevent me from learning the English language.

this may have been the case for you, but it doesn't mean it's true for all asl users. i can think of one person in particular who is "big D" Deaf, a strong asl user and has a great deal of difficulty with the english language.

 

[jillio]

shel and/or jillio,

what does L1 mean?

L1 is native language. L2 is secondary.

 

[Daredevel7]

In my opinion, although I am not fluent in ASL at all, it seems to me that ASL is limiting in terms of complex names (like scientific vocabulary). I am not dissing ASL, in fact, same thing happens with Chinese characters. Actually, Chinese characters remind me SO much of ASL in the sense that each character represents an idea. If the word is complex and they don't have a character for it, they put 2 characters together to represent an idea.

Example: Stroma (which is the liquid found within the photosynthesis cells in plants) would most likely have the characters Liquid Small Sphere Life Plant (there might be more.)

Probably why Chinese scientists write in English!!!

 

[Nika]

ASL is much more limited than the English language. ASL usually has one sign for multiple words.

ASL is also much more highly inflected than English, which serves the same function as English does by having more than one word for similar but not identical concepts.

 

[Nika]

In my opinion, although I am not fluent in ASL at all, it seems to me that ASL is limiting in terms of complex names (like scientific vocabulary). I am not dissing ASL, in fact, same thing happens with Chinese characters. Actually, Chinese characters remind me SO much of ASL in the sense that each character represents an idea. If the word is complex and they don't have a character for it, they put 2 characters together to represent an idea.

Example: Stroma (which is the liquid found within the photosynthesis cells in plants) would most likely have the characters Liquid Small Sphere Life Plant (there might be more.)

Probably why Chinese scientists write in English!!!

Wow, I never thought someone else would see this connection. I came to the exact same realization when I was in Chinese class and was signing to myself, as I usually do out of habit. I realized, Chinese and ASL have so many things in common! How coincidental for two completely unrelated languages.

 

[jasin]

this may have been the case for you, but it doesn't mean it's true for all asl users. i can think of one person in particular who is "big D" Deaf, a strong asl user and has a great deal of difficulty with the english language.

Deaf people who have a problem learning English, in my opinion, typically have that problem because they can't learn how they learn. A lot of deaf people have a learning style that's more visual, spatial, etc.. not concrete and linear. Furthermore, most teachers, unless their teaching at a deaf school, have been teaching to hearing people most of their careers and are not well educated or experienced in teaching deaf students.

 

[jasin]

For many years they did not even consider ASL a language. It was not until William Stoke came along and proved linguistically ASL to be a language that they started considering ASL a language. He was not very well liked by many deafs, but what he did for us significantly increased acceptance of the deaf.

 

[Hear Again]

Deaf people who have a problem learning English, in my opinion, typically have that problem because they can't learn how they learn. A lot of deaf people have a learning style that's more visual, spatial, etc.. not concrete and linear. Furthermore, most teachers, unless their teaching at a deaf school, have been teaching to hearing people most of their careers and are not well educated or experienced in teaching deaf students.

the person i'm thinking of went to a residential school for the deaf and then gallaudet, so his lack of english skills has nothing to do with the fact that he was taught by hearing teachers.

 

[Hear Again]

L1 is native language. L2 is secondary.

 

[jasin]

In my opinion, although I am not fluent in ASL at all, it seems to me that ASL is limiting in terms of complex names (like scientific vocabulary). I am not dissing ASL, in fact, same thing happens with Chinese characters. Actually, Chinese characters remind me SO much of ASL in the sense that each character represents an idea. If the word is complex and they don't have a character for it, they put 2 characters together to represent an idea.

Example: Stroma (which is the liquid found within the photosynthesis cells in plants) would most likely have the characters Liquid Small Sphere Life Plant (there might be more.)

Probably why Chinese scientists write in English!!!

I can sign that "stroma" example in what you'd consider a sentence and not lose any meaning. Just because there is no specific sign for that word does not make ASL limiting. Languages are much more then vocab. Furthermore, translating from one language to another is never perfect. You have to, in most cases, think in the language you are using without any translating or equivalents to truly understand that language.

I personally know an ASL professor who flunked several hearing students in a higher level ASL class because they could not turn off the English. The students were constantly translating ASL into English and English into Asl. They weren't glossing anything either and were always trying to think of equivalents in English for various signs.

I forgot to add also, that there are loads of signs for things scientific. Just because someone does not know them does not mean they don't exists.

Biology signs: http://www.needsoutreach.org/Pages/sign.html

Geography signs: http://www.needsoutreach.org/Pages/sign-geog.html

Physic signs: http://www.needsoutreach.org/Pages/sign-phys.html

Technology signs: http://www.needsoutreach.org/Pages/sign-tech.html

 

[jasin]

Just to clear something up here. ASl can not be a native language for hearing people as they are not deaf or hard of hearing. It comes pretty close to be a native language for most codas, but still, its not a native language for them either.

 

[jasin]

the person i'm thinking of went to a residential school for the deaf and then gallaudet, so his lack of english skills has nothing to do with the fact that he was taught by hearing teachers.

I understand, but I was speaking generally.

 

[shel90]

I can sign that "stroma" example in what you'd consider a sentence and not lose any meaning. Just because there is no specific sign for that word does not make ASL limiting. Languages are much more then vocab. Furthermore, translating from one language to another is never perfect. You have to, in most cases, think in the language you are using without any translating or equivalents to truly understand that language.

I personally know an ASL professor who flunked several hearing students in a higher level ASL class because they could not turn off the English. The students were constantly translating ASL into English and English into Asl. They weren't glossing anything either and were always trying to think of equivalents in English for various signs.

I forgot to add also, that there are loads of signs for things scientific. Just because someone does not know them does not mean they don't exists.

Biology signs: Sign Language for Biology

Geography signs: Sign Language for Geography

Physic signs: Sign Language for US History

Technology signs: Sign Language for Technology

Very correct....

 

[jillio]

Just to clear something up here. ASl can not be a native language for hearing people as they are not deaf or hard of hearing. It comes pretty close to be a native language for most codas, but still, its not a native language for them either.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. For a CODA, who is exposed to ASL from infancy, ASL can most certainly be their L1 language, despite their hearing status.

 

[AlleyCat]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the statement that a CODA who is exposed to ASL from infancy can make ASL be their L1 language, even if they are hearing. Ultimately, they grow up (even at age 2-3 when they start socializing with other hearing children and on), I do believe that for CODAs, spoken English is still their first language. It's only natural, when they have hearing. I could see that ASL could follow a very, very close second. I do understand that you were offering another perspective on Jasin's statement that ASL "cannot" be a native language for hearing people. I can't think of a single CODA I've met where ASL was their L1 language. It always followed a close second.