to those BORN with severe-profound hearing loss

[Jane B.]

The talk about FM made me think of something! One thing that I, as an adult, am very glad that I have is a T-mike setting on my aid. I also own my own neckloop. The point is that I can use different systems in places like churches without consideration of what brand system they have. Virtually all of them have receivers available for the congregation/audience that come with earbuds; thus having my own neckloop makes them all useful to me as my loss is beyond what an earbud without my aid would give.

 

[CSign]

I made a kind of jokey (but still true) comment upthread about an FM system being not necessary because you can thump on a wall. Which we do at home all the time

But more to the point about FM systems, my son uses FM at school and it's great. Someone upthread made a comment about FM use encouraging "lazy hearing" or something, and while I can see the point, I think that in school certainly you've got to do whatever you can to make sure your kid - hearing, deaf, or otherwise - is learning all he needs to.

We were thinking about getting an FM for home use - it would be great for talking in the car, since I'm facing away from my son when I'm driving, and there's all the car noise besides - but they are expensive. I mean everything is expensive, but FM is definitely out of reach for us. And considering the number of situations where we need something like FM but it wouldn't even work (thinking specifically of karate class - multiple instructors, all moving around too much to use a pass-around boom mike, they'd need 4 headset mikes to make it work) it's just not worthwhile for us. It might be for you, if you could by one FM to use with both kids (that would depend on what HAs they are both wearing though). And it's not something you can cheap out on; before the school got Harry's "permanent" FM, he had a crappy old loaner one that he constantly complained about, right up until he destroyed the receivers. Can't say I blame him.

That said: shop around. The first place I went to quoted around $4100, the second place, $3750. For the exact same system, as specified by a hospital audi.

Heck, shop around for everything. Something I learned: in my province (Ontario) there is a legislated cap on dispensing fees. Dispensers can't charge more than the wholesale price + $710 (I think) in fees. Some charge less, if you look around. Some include a service warranty in that dispensing fee, others charge more for every little thing. And of course, not every area has caps on fees. So our dispenser, who charges only around $500 for dispensing, and includes services like new hooks and retubing and other repairs in that amount, has clients who fly across the country to get their HAs from them. Because it's cheaper to take a 3-day vacation, a few dinners out, maybe catch a show, and buy hearing aids from my guy, than it is to just get hearing aids in their own home town.

I guess it's like some prescription meds, where you hear about busloads of seniors going to Winnipeg to hit the drugstores there.

Anyway I hope I've been a little bit helpful. I've been thinking about you, and how you've got enough to deal with without stepping in the middle of someone else's argument. You've already got some experience with your first child, but I remember when Harry was ID'd we were stunned to encounter what my husband calls the "culture war" between sign-only and oral-only advocates. We've really struggled to avoid taking sides (or having a side take us, if you know what I mean).

If you want to PM me Suzanne, please do!

In the United States, students can take home the FM system for use outside of school. I am not familiar with Canadian law, but it might be worth looking into to see if they will allow him to bring it home so that you don't have to buy one. It definitely can come in handy in certain situations.

 

[jbeer]

In the United States, students can take home the FM system for use outside of school. I am not familiar with Canadian law, but it might be worth looking into to see if they will allow him to bring it home so that you don't have to buy one. It definitely can come in handy in certain situations.

We're not allowed to take it home, I asked because I was hoping we could! Our school board is also known for taking back FM systems earlier than necessary at the end of the school year - like taking the FM out of the classroom in mid-May, when classes don't end till June. Grr. I've had enough tussles with the school board that they didn't try that with me, though And Harry's itinerant teacher last year was great. She said the board doesn't like her because she waits till the very last day to collect the FMs and hand them in

 

[jbeer]

The talk about FM made me think of something! One thing that I, as an adult, am very glad that I have is a T-mike setting on my aid. I also own my own neckloop. The point is that I can use different systems in places like churches without consideration of what brand system they have. Virtually all of them have receivers available for the congregation/audience that come with earbuds; thus having my own neckloop makes them all useful to me as my loss is beyond what an earbud without my aid would give.

Interesting, our church has the receivers, never occurred to me that I could plug in to Harry's iComm. He doesn't actually spend much time in the service though before he goes off to his Sunday school (which is a good environment for him, acoustically speaking).

 

[AlleyCat]

We're not allowed to take it home, I asked because I was hoping we could! Our school board is also known for taking back FM systems earlier than necessary at the end of the school year - like taking the FM out of the classroom in mid-May, when classes don't end till June. Grr. I've had enough tussles with the school board that they didn't try that with me, though And Harry's itinerant teacher last year was great. She said the board doesn't like her because she waits till the very last day to collect the FMs and hand them in

Same here, my mom was never allowed to take my FM home. We did once for a weekend, and got a heavy scolding over it. Never again.

 

[Jane B.]

Interesting, our church has the receivers, never occurred to me that I could plug in to Harry's iComm. He doesn't actually spend much time in the service though before he goes off to his Sunday school (which is a good environment for him, acoustically speaking).

Here is just one place that sells the type of neckloop I use. Mine looks a little different being an older one. It needs NO batteries, etc. I have plugged mine into the earbud socket on a receiver from a number of different brand systems and simply set hearing aid to tel-coil.

Williams Sound Neckloop Telecoil Couplers WS-NKL001 WS-NKL003 WS-NKL005 Assistive and Hearing Aids Products - Deaf, Hearing Loss, Sign Language

Not having one I haven't the slightest idea if the iCom needs a brand specific transmitter or what.

 

[CSign]

We're not allowed to take it home, I asked because I was hoping we could! Our school board is also known for taking back FM systems earlier than necessary at the end of the school year - like taking the FM out of the classroom in mid-May, when classes don't end till June. Grr. I've had enough tussles with the school board that they didn't try that with me, though And Harry's itinerant teacher last year was great. She said the board doesn't like her because she waits till the very last day to collect the FMs and hand them in

Considering it's a device used to help students gain access to their educational environment, I don't see it as being that impressive that she waits until the end of the school year to collect them.

As much as there is room for improvement here in the states, at least the laws have changed since many adult posters on this forum have been in school.

So, for any parents of DHH children in the US, if your child has an FM and you think he/she would benefit from using it in the home or extra-curricular environment, get it written into their IEP.

Edit to add: I don't mean to sound harsh in the first paragraph... It sounds like your son had/has a great itinerant teacher which is wonderful... I'm just always very critical of proper accommodations, especially within the educational environment. It irks me when schools do things such as repossessing their FM's a month before school is out (for example).

 

[AlleyCat]

Again if you have a SEVERE-PROFOUND hearing loss that have HEARING AIDS ...POST. If you have an opinion post some where else or make your own thread.

CSign, make your own thread. Do you not read what the OP specifically stated? Last I checked, you weren't born with a hearing loss of any kind.

Back to the FMs. There are boundaries established between school usage and home usage. Most of these boundaries are insurance-related. A child typically cannot take home what is considered school district property.

 

[Cloggy]

CSign, make your own thread. Do you not read what the OP specifically stated? Last I checked, you weren't born with a hearing loss of any kind. ...
..

AlleyCat, Please grow up.

 

[CSign]

In the spirit of getting accurate information out there to parents that can be of benefit to their DHH children, the relevant Ed Code is posted below:

"Regulations: Part 300 / A / 300.42
Sec. 300.42 Supplementary aids and services.
Supplementary aids and services means aids, services, and other supports that are provided in regular education classes, other education-related settings, and in extracurricular and nonacademic settings, to enable children with disabilities to be educated with nondisabled children to the maximum extent appropriate in accordance with Sec. Sec. 300.114 through 300.116.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1401(33) )

IDEA - Building The Legacy of IDEA 2004,

 

[AlleyCat]

This is for educational purposes. Extracurricular and nonacademic settings don't mean home.

 

[deafdyke]

Regarding FM I think it's very hit or miss. it can be useful but at the same time.you gotta see what works well for each individual kid.

 

[lovezebras]

I hated the fm after my hearing started to get worse ..when it was moderate wasn't to bad but after that it was just confusing to have to try to hear a teacher and students asking questions etc..I found it a bother

 

[NaidaUP]

I personally hated the FM system when I was at school for the same reason as Love Zebras but now I'm at work and only have to concentrate on one person, it's great, I wouldn't go without it.

One of the complaints in the UK at least is that students don't like to feel isolated when using FM system. They feel blocked off from the other students.

That's even with there FM program set up as FM+M as well

 

[CSign]

This is for educational purposes. Extracurricular and nonacademic settings don't mean home.

I'm not sure why you insist on obsfucating the facts of something you are mistaken about. Especially when it concerns helping facilitate communication and language for a DHH child.

Whether or not FM systems are useful for any given individual or situation is not the point.

The point is, that if a child who qualifies for an IEP is in fact entitled to the use of supplementary aids and services outside of the educational environment.

The point is, that fact may be useful to parents of a DHH child in that they can request the use of such supplementary aids and services within the home and extra-curricular environment.

There are many people and LEA's who are mistaken, or not clear about the law. Two years ago I had our local SELPA policy changed about the topic because it wasn't consistent with the law.

Even LEA's and SELPA's may be mistaken and need some education about the topic.

MN Supreme Court Refuses to Limit Extracurricular & Nonacademic Activities to those that “Educate the Child”

"Can my child’s IEP include supplementary aids and services for extracurricular activities and after-school programs?

The answer is yes.

We receive many questions from parents about extracurricular activities, after school clubs, and sports. The schools tell parents they are not required to provide assistance for these activities since they occur after school, take place off the school grounds, or do not involve academics.

The Minnesota Supreme Court ruling in Independent School Dist. v. Minn. Dep’t of Education (Oct. 7, 2010)* held that IDEA requires school districts to take steps to provide extracurricular and nonacademic activities to afford the student an equal opportunity to participate. The IEP team must determine which activities are appropriate and include them in the IEP. These activities are not limited to activities that “educate the child.”

Minnesota parents of a 5th grader with autism requested that the IEP team consider supplementary aids and services to enable their daughter to participate in volleyball and after-school clubs.

When the school district refused, the parents filed a complaint with the Minnesota DOE. DOE concluded that the school district violated IDEA.

The Department ordered the school district to convene the IEP team to discuss any appropriate supplementary aids and services needed in the IEP to allow the student to participate in these activities.

The school district appealed and the appeals court held that IDEA requires an IEP team to consider whether an extracurricular and nonacademic activity is appropriate for the student. The school must provide the necessary aids and services for participation, but only if the activities are required for the education of the child.

The Supreme Court of Minnesota reviewed the case to determine whether “the IDEA regulations limit the extracurricular and nonacademic activities included in an IEP to only those “required for the education” of disabled students. The court held that the IDEA regulations contain no such limit.

Since IDEA does not define “extracurricular and nonacademic activities” the Court turned to the federal regulations for specific language.

“Section 300.107(b) provides a nonexhaustive list of examples of extracurricular and nonacademic activities. Section 300.107(b) expressly includes athletics, clubs, and activities offered by groups sponsored by the school district. But the section does not otherwise limit those extracurricular and nonacademic activities eligible for inclusion in the IEP.”

“Section 300.117 does not limit what qualifies as an extracurricular and nonacademic activity. Instead, the section further defines extracurricular and nonacademic activities to include meals and recess as well as the activities listed in section 300.107(b).”

The Supreme Court refused “to limit extracurricular and nonacademic activities to those required only to educate the disabled student” because it would be adding or reading words into the plain language of the federal IDEA regulations. The Court also held that the appeals court ruling violated the “equal opportunity” for participation in extracurricular and nonacademic activities required by the federal regulations."

 

[Bottesini]

I'm not sure why you insist on obsfucating the facts of something you are mistaken about. Especially when it concerns helping facilitate communication and language for a DHH child.

Whether or not FM systems are useful for any given individual or situation is not the point.

The point is, that if a child who qualifies for an IEP is in fact entitled to the use of supplementary aids and services outside of the educational environment.

The point is, that fact may be useful to parents of a DHH child in that they can request the use of such supplementary aids and services within the home and extra-curricular environment.

You here are many people and LEA's who are mistaken, or not clear about the law. Two years ago I had our local SELPA policy changed about the topic because it wasn't consistent with the law.

Even LEA's and SELPA's may be mistaken and need some education about the topic.

MN Supreme Court Refuses to Limit Extracurricular & Nonacademic Activities to those that “Educate the Child”

"Can my child’s IEP include supplementary aids and services for extracurricular activities and after-school programs?

The answer is yes.

We receive many questions from parents about extracurricular activities, after school clubs, and sports. The schools tell parents they are not required to provide assistance for these activities since they occur after school, take place off the school grounds, or do not involve academics.

The Minnesota Supreme Court ruling in Independent School Dist. v. Minn. Dep’t of Education (Oct. 7, 2010)* held that IDEA requires school districts to take steps to provide extracurricular and nonacademic activities to afford the student an equal opportunity to participate. The IEP team must determine which activities are appropriate and include them in the IEP. These activities are not limited to activities that “educate the child.”

Minnesota parents of a 5th grader with autism requested that the IEP team consider supplementary aids and services to enable their daughter to participate in volleyball and after-school clubs.

When the school district refused, the parents filed a complaint with the Minnesota DOE. DOE concluded that the school district violated IDEA.

The Department ordered the school district to convene the IEP team to discuss any appropriate supplementary aids and services needed in the IEP to allow the student to participate in these activities.

The school district appealed and the appeals court held that IDEA requires an IEP team to consider whether an extracurricular and nonacademic activity is appropriate for the student. The school must provide the necessary aids and services for participation, but only if the activities are required for the education of the child.

The Supreme Court of Minnesota reviewed the case to determine whether “the IDEA regulations limit the extracurricular and nonacademic activities included in an IEP to only those “required for the education” of disabled students. The court held that the IDEA regulations contain no such limit.

Since IDEA does not define “extracurricular and nonacademic activities” the Court turned to the federal regulations for specific language.

“Section 300.107(b) provides a nonexhaustive list of examples of extracurricular and nonacademic activities. Section 300.107(b) expressly includes athletics, clubs, and activities offered by groups sponsored by the school district. But the section does not otherwise limit those extracurricular and nonacademic activities eligible for inclusion in the IEP.”

“Section 300.117 does not limit what qualifies as an extracurricular and nonacademic activity. Instead, the section further defines extracurricular and nonacademic activities to include meals and recess as well as the activities listed in section 300.107(b).”

The Supreme Court refused “to limit extracurricular and nonacademic activities to those required only to educate the disabled student” because it would be adding or reading words into the plain language of the federal IDEA regulations. The Court also held that the appeals court ruling violated the “equal opportunity” for participation in extracurricular and nonacademic activities required by the federal regulations."

From everything you just put up, it looks like it is intended to be for activities occurring at the school;outside the educational environment only seems to be used to mean no only during instruction in the classroom.

 

[AlleyCat]

Whether or not FM systems are useful for any given individual or situation is not the point.

You're right - it's not the point. I never said it was or wasn't.

Extracurricular can mean any number of things. Track & field, football, swimming, tutoring, debate club, chess club, drama club, and so on. It still doesn't mean at-home use.

You are not the only one here who has knowledge of the school system or the laws. My goodness.

 

[CSign]

From everything you just put up, it looks like it is intended to be for activities occurring at the school;outside the educational environment only seems to be used to mean no only during instruction in the classroom.

The supreme court refused to define a limit on "non-academic and extra-curricular activities".

The use of supplementary aids can be used within the home environment, I am 100% certain of that.

Beyond the facts of the matter, I wouldn't have been able to get that SELPA policy changed if that weren't in fact true. I don't have time to search for more "proof" beyond the actual law itself and the other link I already provided. When (and if) I have the time to search, maybe I'll post something else.

Parents just need to be aware of this fact, and assert their child's rights if they believe it may be of benefit to them.

The OP is a parent of a DHH child herself and resides within the United States. This fact may prove to be useful information for her in the future.

 

[Bottesini]

The supreme court refused to define a limit on "non-academic and extra-curricular activities".

The use of supplementary aids can be used within the home environment, I am 100% certain of that.

Beyond the facts of the matter, I wouldn't have been able to get that SELPA policy changed if that weren't in fact true. I don't have time to search for more "proof" beyond the actual law itself and the other link I already provided. When (and if) I have the time to search, maybe I'll post something else.

Parents just need to be aware of this fact, and assert their child's rights if they believe it may be of benefit to them.

The OP is a parent of a DHH child herself and resides within the United States. This fact may prove to be useful information for her in the future.

Or it might make her look stupid and turn the people she wants on her side against her.

Pick your battles is important strategy .

 

[deafdyke]

I personally hated the FM system when I was at school for the same reason as Love Zebras but now I'm at work and only have to concentrate on one person, it's great, I wouldn't go without it.

One of the complaints in the UK at least is that students don't like to feel isolated when using FM system. They feel blocked off from the other students.

That's even with there FM program set up as FM+M as well

I agree. thing is, an FM device assumes that the person on the mic, is the most important source of information or that sound is the ONLY way to get a child's attention.