The Deaf Community

faire_jour said:
All you did was ask how she learned ASL, as you have asked many people, because you are legitimately seeking resources to become fluent yourself. I have no idea how that is attacking!
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I was astounded when she suggested that question as her "reason" for attacking me. I thought she knew ASL, and I've asked pretty much every hearing or late deafened person how they learned it -- hadn't realized it was such a crazy sensitive issue with her.
 
shel90 said:
Discrimination ring a bell?
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Being discriminated against gives you an ability to understand the complexities involved in first and second language acquisition for children born with a hearing loss? Or it gives you the ability to understand what it is like to have to completely conduct your life and interactions with your child in a language you are just beginning to learn? It gives you the ability to understand the emotional and psychological intricacies of raising a deaf child who hears?

Yeah, I don't think so...
 
Wirelessly posted

I wonder how much time could had been put to better use if one don't read debates that boil down to ad hominem or one of the many fallacious statements.

Might be my cue to stop participating.
 
faire_jour said:
Being discriminated against gives you an ability to understand the complexities involved in first and second language acquisition for children born with a hearing loss? Or it gives you the ability to understand what it is like to have to completely conduct your life and interactions with your child in a language you are just beginning to learn? It gives you the ability to understand the emotional and psychological intricacies of raising a deaf child who hears?

Yeah, I don't think so...
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Your opinion...

She gave a very good example of her own experience when she was forced to walk and how being in a wheelchair made life easier. I thought that was a very very good analysis. That's how I see it. U can disagree with it all you want but it wont change my mind. I dont know what it is like to be bound in a wheelchair and my first reaction would be is "I would want to walk" but after that example, it made me think twice.
 
shel90 said:
Ok, if you feel that she wasnt attacking you, then why dont you address it with her in PM land? That part is something I wont get involved with as I wasnt a part of it.

I am speaking to GrendalQ.

If you felt like she was attacking you, maybe explain it to her how you felt...maybe she felt she wasnt. Maybe it is a differing of opinions. I missed that part so I cant form an opinion about it.
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I did, Shel, at first, when she pointed me out as an attacker, I thought she mixed me up with someone else's comment and let her know I hadn't disagreed with her viewpoint, hadn't challenged her existence on this forum, tested her ASL skills. She then came back doubly strong on how I had persecuted her. And then other posters began picking up on her claim that I am anti-ASL, anti-deaf. At first I gently asked her to please make it clear that I didn't attack her, that it has made me very unhappy to be painted with this brush, but she has dug in her heels and continues to slam me. And I really don't understand why she would do this, it's just very mean-spirited and hostile of her.
 
shel90 said:
Your opinion...

She gave a very good example of her own experience when she was forced to walk and how being in a wheelchair made life easier. I thought that was a very very good analysis. That's how I see it. U can disagree with it all you want but it wont change my mind. I dont know what it is like to be bound in a wheelchair and my first reaction would be is "I would want to walk" but after that example, it made me think twice.
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I have absolutely no opinion about wheelchairs vs aided walking for children with spinal defects....and you know why? Because I don't know a damn thing about it! I would never go to a site about spinal bifida and start trashing parents who chose EITHER side. I know nothing about what it is like to be the parent or the child, I have no right to an opinion.
 
faire_jour said:
I have absolutely no opinion about wheelchairs vs aided walking for children with spinal defects....and you know why? Because I don't know a damn thing about it! I would never go to a site about spinal bifida and start trashing parents who chose EITHER side. I know nothing about what it is like to be the parent or the child, I have no right to an opinion.
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But I CAN go to a forum about spinal bifida and relate what it is like to be forced to conform to the majority. That's the difference between you and me.
 
shel90 said:
Have you lived your life in a wheelchair, lived your life facing discrimination because you dont fit in society's idea of what a normal person should be, and have you lived your life constantly having to prove yourself to ignorant people?

OB has...so I respect her.
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Thank you. I don't like to speak about it, because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I truly am NOT a bitter person, but yes, I've been looked down upon for being disabled and wheelchair bound.

I honestly cannot say I've ever been discriminated against, but, I've been pitied. I've been thought of as "less than". I've had people take one look at me sitting in the chair, and say "they'd pray for me" with this pitying look in their eyes. I KNOW the look, and, I can't stand it. People have judged me.

My health problems aside (and I have many), the biggest problem I've faced throughout life is the other person's perception of me and what I can/can't do simply because I was born with a hole in my spine. I accept my limitations, but at the same time, I don't base my worth on them. Spina bifida hasn't been a problem for me, but people have. The same as deafness hasn't been a problem for many of you, but, people have.

I get it. Why is it so hard to accept that a hearing person CAN understand if they only choose to do so? It's a choice. A CHOICE, and yes, many won't choose to give a deaf person the time of day. That's sad, in my opinion. But, I can't change everyone. I can only do what I've done. Befriend, listen, and learn....

What a lot of you don't understand is, I have friends outside this forum. People I've known my entire life. Deaf and HoH people. As I said earlier in this thread. My interest didn't just start in 2004. It began when I was a child.

If that's not good enough, then oh well. I give. Because, at the end of the day, I know who my friends are. I know we accept each other for WHO we are, and we don't give a flip if one is hearing and the other isn't.

In my mind, that makes for a much nicer world for all.
 
faire_jour said:
Bingo! :giggle:

(Bott, I do believe you are one of the wisest people on the site. You have strong opinions but you understand, respect and totally "get" where both sides are coming from, even if you disagree!)
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And - Botti is the reason I may give up on this site.
 
KristinaB said:
And - Botti is the reason I may give up on this site.
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I hope you're kidding. I would hate to say anybody drive anybody away. This is a rough place for some, but, that's also why I refuse to let anyone drive me off the forum. Taking a break is one thing. I've done that; even an extended break, but I feel it would be awful if you left because someone made you feel umcomfortable.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I think that's a big maybe. Even though someone may go most of their lives hearing and retain auditory memory after a loss, they'd still need to learn sign to communicate. You just can't snap a finger and be implanted in a blink of an eye. The process is probably much the same as it is for infants. A person must qualify for a CI. What if that person's loss doesn't? Then, what? I think ASL can benefit the late deafened individual as well. Whether they choose that route, though, is up to them.
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I am a late deafened person. ASL has been a huge benefit to me. It has opened a new world of unaided communication, friends, forums and learning. At first, I knew only a terp or two. Slowly, through this site, I made friends. Now, I have both "virtual" and real life deaf friends. I much prefer my deaf life. Thanks to ASL. No, it isn't for everyone.

I am glad that OB is part of MY deaf community. She does understand many perspectives. Parallel perspectives are valid. Thank you for your input.
 
faire_jour said:
Seriously? Bott is the best!?! Why on earth would she be the reason you leave? There are way more offensive and aggressive people on this site!
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Yes - there are more people who are offensive and aggressive, however, they don't alway personally attack. Now, I'm not saying Botti does it all the time, but I just get tired of being "belittled" by her. You are one of the aggressive people to me.
 
LDNanna said:
I am a late deafened person. ASL has been a huge benefit to me. It has opened a new world of unaided communication, friends, forums and learning. At first, I knew only a terp or two. Slowly, through this site, I made friends. Now, I have both "virtual" and real life deaf friends. I much prefer my deaf life. Thanks to ASL. No, it isn't for everyone.

I am glad that OB is part of MY deaf community. She does understand many perspectives. Parallel perspectives are valid. Thank you for your input.
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Thank you, my friend. I believe you're right. Should I ever become deaf, I admit I'd consider a CI if my loss was profound enough, but, I'd become fluent in ASL, too. It'd be imperative. As I said, one must communicate and what do they do while they are waiting to complete the CI process? I cannot imagine the hell that would create. I honestly don't see any way around learning sign language for ANY deaf person; late deafened included.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I hope you're kidding. I would hate to say anybody drive anybody away. This is a rough place for some, but, that's also why I refuse to let anyone drive me off the forum. Taking a break is one thing. I've done that; even an extended break, but I feel it would be awful if you left because someone made you feel umcomfortable.
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I have taken break whether it was by choice or due to computer issues. Still, I get the same things going on. I usually can handle things here, but I guess I have too much going on and can't handle all the crap.
 
KristinaB said:
And - Botti is the reason I may give up on this site.
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Don't go because you have a beef with someone. I must agree with FJ on this one. (Did I just say that? LOL) (JK FJ)

Everyone has a right to their opinions. This is why AD is so good for us. It is a small mirror of daily living in our deaf and hearing community. We must try to see their view, understand their perspective, and even CELEBRATE the differences. Your input is valued, as are those of our whole AD community. We may not all agree, but we can't let our disagreements decide.

These arguments strengthen and teach us imho. I have learned a lot from others here especially from the disagreements!

BTW, Botti is one of the folks to thank for the Late Deaf thread, and was one of the first to support me here.

You are one of the folks I do look forward to seeing here. It is surprising to me that you would openly name someone like this.
 
KristinaB said:
Yes - there are more people who are offensive and aggressive, however, they don't alway personally attack. Now, I'm not saying Botti does it all the time, but I just get tired of being "belittled" by her. You are one of the aggressive people to me.
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Of course I am one of the agressive ones, I hate ignorance.

Bott attacking? Yikes, I wonder what I missed?!?!
 
I am sorry that you have sooo much going on. Hope that you get some much deserved rest. If you decide to leave, it is hoped that it would be temporary. A good break is good for everyone. You are a friend, and consider you very kind.
 
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